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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6429875 times)

Offline demografx

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« Last Edit: 18/02/2010 06:50:05 by demografx »
 

Offline wooder

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6776 on: 18/02/2010 07:35:29 »
does anyone know if 7 year on SSRI's could have had an impact owing to the artificial mainpulation of serontonin levels ?
 

Offline wooder

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6777 on: 18/02/2010 09:57:47 »
my hands feel a little sensetive today

has anyone heard of the writings of dr richards over at erectile dysfunction something

i found it all so depressing

it's like the whole body system is complete chaos and that it is so easy to tip it the wrong way

this whole situation sucks
 

Offline wooder

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6778 on: 18/02/2010 15:45:34 »
what on earth is that
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6779 on: 18/02/2010 17:45:56 »
I agree, B_Jim!

Wooder, this is anecdotal but I've been on SSRI's much longer, but I remember having POIS before that.
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6780 on: 18/02/2010 18:11:47 »
This is from my blackberry...so brief and succinct.

I visited the doctor today in light od the new article. He was willing to prescribe me the progresterone mentioned in the article. When getting the Px filled, the drug store said it's not available in the US - only Europe. After a phone call to the doctor he prescribed another progesterone. I will that one.

Also on another topic, I have been taking AT classes. After a month of classes I'm beginning to learn a lot about myself. So far POIS is still bad. I'll continue taking AT because I feel it's promising.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6781 on: 18/02/2010 18:26:49 »
I am  not saying this because of the article but, in the past when i over did orgasm i got an headache but it went away after sleeping so i never payed attention to it.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6782 on: 18/02/2010 18:28:00 »
This is from my blackberry...so brief and succinct.

I visited the doctor today in light od the new article. He was willing to prescribe me the progresterone mentioned in the article. When getting the Px filled, the drug store said it's not available in the US - only Europe. After a phone call to the doctor he prescribed another progesterone. I will that one.

Also on another topic, I have been taking AT classes. After a month of classes I'm beginning to learn a lot about myself. So far POIS is still bad. I'll continue taking AT because I feel it's promising.

I cant wait to hear your results, i cant see doctor for another week.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6783 on: 18/02/2010 19:14:31 »

Great going, Limejuice and CC. But PLEASE read up on the side effects! I'm not trying to spoil the party, I'm just concerned for your safety.

What is AT?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6784 on: 18/02/2010 19:27:44 »


POIS' Forum-Thread 3rd Anniversary



Hey, everyone! It's been 3 Years since "John21" posted the very first POIS post, kicking off the beginnings of this wonderful oasis! Thanks, John, and thanks, everyone here who has contributed, posted or visited, and Neil ("neilep"), our Naked Scientists' Patron Saint ;D for making this the great place to go on the planet for all POIS sufferers! Before this forum thread, nothing remotely close existed that understood POIS and cultivated POIS fraternity, theories, and solutions.




               

 

Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6785 on: 18/02/2010 21:01:28 »
I’ve been catching up with the forum today and wow, what an exciting surprise it was to see the new article. I’m sure lots of us have been searching the internet for progesterone articles and I’m no exception. The proof will be in the testing for us but in the meantime I can't help but do some more reading on the subject. I shall try to summarise some things I've come across and some thoughts.

I agree, it does indeed sound like the patient in the paper is a POIS sufferer (symptoms match minus the headache which not many of us seem to report). One remarkable thing for me is that the patient seems to be able to take norethisterone just after sex and be free of symptoms – ie he doesn’t have to take it all the time, just when he’s had an orgasm. That seems really fast-acting and specific. From what I’ve been reading and as is mentioned at the end of the article, progesterone has quite a wide variety of effects in the body. Several of these effects might indicate a link to POIS although of course I say this with very little knowledge of the details.

From Wikipedia:
Progesterone is created in the testicles and the adrenal glands
It is a precursor of testosterone (and some other hormones) (low progesterone therefore low testosterone? – for those with low T? Demo were you tested for progesterone at all?)
It is a neurosteroid and can affect mood
Directly/indirectly it affects GABA receptors (there was quite a lot of talk about GABA in the earlier days of the forum I think).
It acts as an anti-inflammatory agent and regulates the immune response (some symptoms of POIS are like an inappropriate immune response)
It reduces spasm and relaxes smooth muscle, bronchi are widened and mucus regulated (runny nose and stuffy sinuses are symptoms for some POIS sufferers)
In women it increases core temperature during ovulation (I’m not sure about in men but several of us have reported feeling cold during POIS)

Let me write a quick disclaimer before going on: Some of the sites I’ve been coming across are not strictly speaking scientific. As reliable as Wikipedia usually is, I would to some extent include Wikipedia in that one always needs to be aware there could be errors within it.  Other sites might be promoting products/supplements. However, with that in mind, here are some other interesting things I’ve come across:

According to: http://www.watsonwellness.org/new/progesterone.htmlProgesterone requires Magnesium and Vitamin B6 for its synthesis (John21 has raised the possibility of Magnesium being related to POIS and has had good results which might be related to spinach – a food high in magnesium).

According to the same website, the following are symptoms of low testosterone: Psycho-emotional: anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts, difficulty with concentration irritability, mood swings, fuzzy thinking Headaches Weight gain, bloating, fluid retention Food cravings Painful joints and muscles Low libido Insomnia Menstrual cramps, heavy bleeding, shorter cycles (less than 28 days) Acne, Fibrocystic breasts, painful breasts Ovarian cysts Fibroids.

From http://www.natural-hormones.net/progesterone.htm#highsymptomsProgesterone helps to keep serotonin levels from dropping too low
It is not uncommon for sleeping patterns to change as progesterone levels decline
When Progesterone levels drop, impaired memory and reasoning skills may be apparent in menopausal women.
(Fatigue is apparently also a symptom of HIGH progesterone! )

The following website http://www.tidesoflife.com/differences.htm lists some differences between natural progesterone and synthetic versions such as norethisterone. One particular paragraph caught my eye but I’m not sure what to make of it. It talks about some synthetic versions having “testosterone activity" and some having “estrogen activity” I guess since progesterone is a precursor of both testosterone and estrogen that the synthetic versions might somehow be more closely related to one or the other. In the article by Dr Dexter a progesterone cream didn’t work for the patient but norethisterone (taken orally) did. According to the above website, norethisterone is one of the synthetic progesterones with “testosterone activity”. I wonder if a difference in the class of progesterone could explain the difference between the cream and the oral norethisterone? Here’s the paragraph from the website:

"..the synthetic progestogens that have testosterone activity, such as norethynodrel, esthisterone, dimesthisterone, and norethisterone, can have masculinizing effects on a woman, while the synthetic progestogens with estrogen activity bring on symptoms such as fluid retention and edema, which are related to estrogen excess. Natural progesterone, on the other hand, does not cause masculinization and is known to reduce sodium and fluid retention".

This is turning into a long post so I shall break off here but have more to write. As I said at the beginning, the proof will be in the testing for us - it'll work or it won't...or it'll work for some of us. So I acknowledge that to some extent my above discussion doesn't add that much. But in the spirit of the forum I am reading up on what I can and reporting back what I've learned - something I've not done nearly enough of...
 

Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6786 on: 18/02/2010 21:17:18 »
Progesterone has been mentioned on this forum a few times before (use the search box). Hardasnails1973 mentioned it in his list of possible culprits. Michael8028 reported having HIGH progesterone although I don't know if his test was done whilst he was in a POIS state or not.

Progesterone is in the list that evolved on this forum of suggested hormones to test for. Has anyone had progesterone test results? Anyone had a progesterone test done soon after orgasm?

We should take care to follow our doctors' advice if pursuing a progesterone supplement, especially given that one forum member (Michael8028) reported having high progesterone levels.
 

Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6787 on: 18/02/2010 21:39:45 »
According to several websites, there seems to be an important relationship between progesterone and thyroid hormones. As some of you know, my POIS only began after having radioiodine treatment for an overactive thyroid which subsequently became underactive. I've only just come across references to the interplay between progesterone and thyroid hormones but, given the way my POIS seemed to originate, I find a link between thyroid hormones and progesterone particularly interesting in the light of Dr Dexter's paper. I'll look into this some more.
 

Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6788 on: 18/02/2010 22:49:40 »
Mellirova, thanks for posting your web-search findings--those different connections with progesterone are really interesting!

Also, seeing the many connections makes me think that we shouldn't necessarily focus specifically only  on progesterone--that is, taking progesterone might help in alleviating a biochemical chain reaction that leads to a POIS episode, but a progesterone deficiency may or may not be the root cause of the chain reaction itself.  There may be an earlier cause (a deficiency or overproduction of some other substance), and taking progesterone may simply interrupt the process somewhere further along the chain. 

So, while progesterone may potentially be good for a form of treatment, it doesn't necessarily tell us much about the causes.  And, given that unknown aspect, there could also be other treatments that would also break up the chain reaction at different places.  But, this is certainly a good breakthrough for further research!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6789 on: 18/02/2010 23:19:55 »
mellivora, based on your suggestion, I just emailed my physician to see if I could test progesterone next week, along with the re-testing of testosterone, lipid panel, and sugar levels necessary since my recent cardiac bypass surgery (5 clogged arteries fixed!!)
 

Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6790 on: 18/02/2010 23:22:03 »
I totally agree Guthrie. If progesterone is low, why is it low?

Neuroendocrine systems are so complex with so many subtle links between different molecules and tissues. In addition, each molecule seems to have several potential effects. I'm sure scientists and medical professionals would be the first to acknowledge that we're only just beginning to understand what really goes on in hormonal systems.

The fact that the norethisterone was successful for the patient repeatedly and seems to have kept away symptoms even if only taken just after orgasm gives cause for hope in narrowing down the mechanism involved. However when the patient wasn't exposed to an external source of progesterone, his symptoms returned. Like you say, the underlying cause is still there waiting to be deciphered. I'd quite like a reliable treatment like that in the meantime though!!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6791 on: 18/02/2010 23:25:59 »

my hands feel a little sensetive today


wooder, a giant  crazymaker for me in POIS is my fingertips' sensitivity: dried-up, numb, hot...unlike ANY other of my lifetime experiences, sensations, illnesses!
 

Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6792 on: 18/02/2010 23:34:49 »
Good luck Demo. I would guess that there might be some kind of feedback loop or other relationship between progesterone and testosterone that means your present progesterone levels (with testosterone patches) might not be the same as your level without the patches was. I'm just guessing though. Your endo sounds great so I'm sure he'll be able to advise you well. It'll certainly be interesting to hear his reaction to Dr Dexter's paper.
 

Offline matsoda

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6793 on: 19/02/2010 01:50:07 »


...my POIS symptoms have all but disappeared...when i consume 50mls of Olive Leaf Extract daily, and extra taken slowly (for 1-2hrs) post orgasm...


Darren, if I may I ask, what prompted you in the first place to try this remedy?

Hi,

I had been using olive leaf extract mainly as a anti-viral to stop me from getting i'll when my immune system crashed regularly.

I beleive it was the Olive Leaf Extract that helped me, i'll wait to see if anybody else reports the same symptom relief.

Kind regards
Darren
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6794 on: 19/02/2010 02:32:43 »

[progesterone/norethisterone] is certainly a good breakthrough for further research!


I agree, and I think it proves the effectiveness of this forum!

Who knows, if we had spent thousands of dollars on medical "research" so far if this would have been discovered or not? Or many of the other ideas we've discovered since Waldinger?

And the more we continue this way, the more productive future POIS researchers will be with this forum's material.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6795 on: 19/02/2010 02:54:17 »

Good luck Demo. I would guess that there might be some kind of feedback loop or other relationship between progesterone and testosterone that means your present progesterone levels (with testosterone patches) might not be the same as your level without the patches was. I'm just guessing though. Your endo sounds great so I'm sure he'll be able to advise you well. It'll certainly be interesting to hear his reaction to Dr Dexter's paper.


Thanks, mellivora. You just made me aware that I will get a reading only after TRT started.

My insurance changed January 1, so I'm not sure if I can continue with my endo. But my new GP is praised by many physicians in this large community (including my endo), so I hope I can continue as before. I showed the GP Waldinger's paper. Not ready yet to show him the new paper. My main focus right now is cardiac rehab, and to continue the testosterone treatment (TRT).
 

Offline matsoda

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6796 on: 19/02/2010 03:20:06 »

Hi all,

I have suffered from debilitating POIS symptoms as described on this forum for almost 20 years now. It's been a long road and i have tried just about everything to understand it and find relief with very little effect. I ended up avoiding any sexual stimulation altogether.

For what it's worth, i recently found that my POIS symptoms have all but disappeared! It seems that when i consume 50mls of Olive Leaf Extract daily, and extra taken slowly (for 1-2hrs) post orgasm.. my symptoms have all gone. The relief has been consistant and 100% repeatable.

This is my genuine personal experience. Maybe it can help somebody else here.

Kind regards
Darren

PS. Anything liquid you can get from your local health food store should do fine. The recommended dose for the brand i am using is 5ml taken 3x Daily, but my results have come from taking 50ml (mixed in 500ml of pure water) consumed over the day. I also consume another 30mls with water post orgasm. It's not that hard to put it in your water bottle. It's totally natural and from what i have read there is no risk of overdosing, but please do you own research to check that it's safe at these doses.

Darren, thank you!

Please tell us when you started this treatment?

Many of us have been tremendously excited with a new "cure" (including me). But then (far too often, it seems), something happens after a while: it stops working.

My treatment cure has worked for a year, which now makes me feel RELATIVELY satisfied that it's "the real thing". But I continue to be cautious, so as to not be devastated by a reversal somewhere down the line!

We do hope you will stay connected and let us know periodically how you're doing.

Very best wishes,

Demo

Hi Demo,

Your very welcome. To try and answer your questions..

I suffered classic POIS symptoms for almost 15 years. Namely the 'flu-like' symptoms, extreme exhaustion, debilitating brain fog, glands, and anxiety being the main symptoms.

I have seen an enormous improvement in my symptom relief in the past 6 months. This is most highlighted by the fact that i used to be unable to cope with life for up to 3 days after orgasm, I've seen steady improvement to the point were i no longer suffer the exhaustion, the flu-like symptoms, anxiety, or any brain fog. I can still suffer some symptoms but they are now a fraction of the original condition.

I originally started on the Olive Leaf extract around 6 months ago for it's antiviral properties to hold off a reoccurring throat infection that would flair up with the onset of POIS symptoms. After a while i started to correlate the symptom relief with the Olive Leaf.

I got results from the Olive Leaf Extract by taking a lot of it. I don't believe i would have seen much symptom relief on the standard dosages. I also believe it's important to mix the extract with a lot of water in order to drink it through the day. So definitely use the liquid.

I noticed the brand i use (Tree of Health) specifically uses 'dry' extract and not 'fresh' to make the liquid. So if possible, i recommend you use a liquid made from 'dry' extract.

I realise there would be a million-and-one claims of cure out there, so please take my experience for what it's worth. I have genuinely found relief from the symptoms of POIS, so i sincerely hope my experience can help others.

Kindest regards
Darren

 

Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6797 on: 19/02/2010 03:48:40 »
Matsoda, O.L.E. seems to work against yeast overgrowth too.  I think I may get some of this to try it out.  How much do you take daily or after NE? 
 

Offline lauracostis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6798 on: 19/02/2010 07:10:13 »
limejuice, any luck with the progesterone yet?
 

Offline wooder

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6799 on: 19/02/2010 08:54:13 »
a drug that cured me, so there's a chance that it can do it to others.
you want to try it?

it is herbal
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6799 on: 19/02/2010 08:54:13 »

 

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