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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6461258 times)

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7125 on: 27/03/2010 02:57:04 »
daveman, I'm with you 100% on that. Not blaming anyone, but there was not a lot of feedback on that when the idea was last posted.

Let's try again! :)

Helloooo everyone, feedback please on daveman's suggestion?(his post immediately above) Thanks!!
« Last Edit: 27/03/2010 03:09:11 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7126 on: 27/03/2010 03:07:12 »

About the Excels

OK, thanks, it'll probably be a week or so before I've got something presentable anyways. The idea is to show something to stimulate ideas among us. For instance even though it's in a early stage, I'm already seeing things that I hadn't thought about. We all maintain a vague idea of what is happening with our bodies ( and mind ), but when you see it graphically and are taking time to enter information while it's somewhat fresh, you see that it's not just that "I felt bad for five days", you see that it was worse when I ate such and such, and when I took such and such the physical improved and when it's longer or shorter you can see more clearly other influences as to why, etc..

Hopefully more of us could see a few graphs and perhaps it might spur ideas as to how they could be enhanced to see more stuff. The idea would be that in a bit, we could eventually create a link to a page where everybody could begin making their own graphs. The results of experiments may be more clear.

eg. My (suposed) MSG peak today was a lot shorter than I thought, only two hours.


daveman, this is excellent!
« Last Edit: 27/03/2010 03:15:12 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7127 on: 27/03/2010 03:14:42 »

We have written to a few prominent orgasm-researchers to see if they could do the "design". Alas, no response.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7128 on: 27/03/2010 03:22:27 »

let me know what you think to that [oxygen] suggestion!!


daveyboy, the use of oxygen sounds plausible. Might be worth trying an experiment with a physician.
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7129 on: 27/03/2010 10:15:51 »
Last week I had an NE and I have already reported that I had minimal effect from it. That was then. This week I had what I have called my Phase B of POIS, a burnt out deadhead feeling. It appeared over a week after the NE.

In the days following ejaculation I seem to experience the change for prominently in my optical "circuitry", visually things seem different. And then again in Phase B it is has become apparent that visually demanding work such as driving is the most taxing on my "burnt out" brain. Wed through Fri were progressively worse into Phase B. Friday night I bought and took some Bilberry supplements, which are claimed to be good for the eyes. I woke through the night like I always do and took a couple more at that time, after which I slept better than I normally do. This morning I do indeed feel better, but whether it was the bilberry that helped or I merely came out the other end of the tunnel I am not sure. If bilberry does help me in my POIS (A or B) state I suppose it might be due to it's anti-inflammatory properties, which would lead me in the direction of other ways of reducing inflammation, and trying to figure out what might provoke it. Maybe I should cut out nightshades veggies (potatoes, tomatoes, etc) as a trial, which are claimed to be a cause of inflammation. Another source to consider might be arachidonic acid, present in meats, egg yolks, shellfish...
« Last Edit: 27/03/2010 10:44:13 by John21 »
 

Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7130 on: 27/03/2010 13:33:22 »
John,

Sorry what's NE, being a newbie?

Recently I have been experiencing something similar, in respect to phase A/B. I'm trying to capture the effect in my database graphs too.

If I understand you, Things can start out apparently smoothly, and then just when you think your getting ready for another sexual adventure, BAM, the fog comes in.

For instance, day 1, medium on physical and mental (on a good day) day 2, feeling pretty good, day 3 heavy night, waking and with nightmares, pulsations and next day very foggy. Other times it has been a couple of days bad, starting to clear and on day 5 the sky falls in.

Now that I've been filling in the forms for the graphs, I've noticed that ususally though there's a trigger responsible for the fall.

I was great yesterday and had a terrible night last night, with residuals this morning. I relate it to something I ate late in the afternoon (a bad tomato). This week I have been fortunate, in that it started out light, almost cleared up and came back again twice. I gave me an opportunity to document clearer effects of antagonists.

When we are sensitive we have to be extremely careful what we eat ( and even do ).

 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7131 on: 27/03/2010 15:35:05 »
BJim,

Quote
Is blueberry the same fruit than bilberry ?

They are in the same family, here is some info.

Other info:
Supportive of claims
Dubious of claims

Quote
But I want to add that glycemia must be linked to inflammation. When glycmia is under controle = less inflammation. I have posted some studies. Effect of sugar on my flu-like symptoms is clear.

I would think that starches (bread, cereals, rice, pasta and potatoes) would have a similar effect as they apparently have almost the same effect on blood sugar. This is from Dr Gabe Mirkin's Good Food Guide (sentence in bold is my emphases):

Quote
Carbohydrates contain single sugars or combinations of sugars. Glucose is an example of a single sugar. Sucrose or common table sugar is a double sugar. Starch contains thousands of sugar molecules bound together, while fiber contains millions of sugars bound together so tightly that your body cannot break them down. Only single sugars can pass from your intestines into your bloodstream. Double, triple, other combinations of sugars and starches must first be split into single sugars before they can be absorbed. These reactions occur so rapidly in your intestines that most starches cause rises in blood sugar that are not much lower than those of single sugars

Daveman,

Quote
Sorry what's NE, being a newbie?

Nocturnal emission, ie wet dream.

My Phase A always used to be the extreme part of my POIS, with a cognative impairment that I can not really explain, but it felt like my mind was swimming in too much of something. Later on, typically after a week of Phase A it would morph into a burnt out, head deadness. This would last for typically a few days to a week before I regained my normal self. These days, Phase A is easier on me, possibly due to the dietary choices I now make. But I have refrain from thinking that I am in the clear when I don't have symptoms due to big bad B.
« Last Edit: 27/03/2010 18:33:43 by John21 »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7132 on: 27/03/2010 16:44:00 »

I have been battling nausea for years. POIS aggravates it. Daveman, I think you're right that we need to careful what we eat and do if we're sensitive.

Milk, with lactaid, I think did me in last week. I'm on 325mg aspirin daily, which might be hard on stomach, but I'm convinced that I need it post-bypass surgery for a year.
 

Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7133 on: 27/03/2010 18:29:52 »
5 weeks of celibacy + zinc supplementation lead to POIS to no avail... but the sexual hangover only lasts about a day for me.

Im still experiencing this almost constant frontal lobe brain fog that goes away when I orgasm, feeling like it goes to the center of my brain which feels like the root cause of this terrible POIS symptom.  Once the main symptoms are over, this fog will most likely come to my frontal lobe again.

I think I'm going to start back on the relora regimen for possible adrenaline issues
« Last Edit: 27/03/2010 20:24:20 by goingcrazy »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7134 on: 28/03/2010 03:34:55 »

goingcrazy, congrats on the 5 weeks!

That's really longtime for you isn't it?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7135 on: 28/03/2010 03:36:21 »

John, I forgot, does milk still affect you?
 

Offline Looking_for_answer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7136 on: 28/03/2010 05:57:01 »
I havent been here in a while.. I came back to look at what you guys had to say about prolactin, dopamine, and pregnenolone.

In Nov 09 I masturbated like if it was gonna be Armageddon the next day. Then next morning at 8 I went for a blood test. Unfortunatly the doc didnt ask for prolactin, and i didnt know what prolactin was back then. But 2 things that came out very abnormal was free testosterone and pregnenolone. If I assume that concentrations are normally distributed (very useful because for fairly healthy individual the "normal range" is totally useless), my free test was in the top <2% of the population used by the lab, while my pregnenolone in the bottom <2% of the population. the free test result did not surprise me that much, because i would say i have genetically high test. but the low pregnenolone less than 2% of the population is nothing short of a disaster. low pregnenolone can cause a lot of cognition problems, immune responses, fatigue, etc. so im very surprised to find that a search for pregnenolone in this topic only got 2 hits. Have you guys looked at this?

Basically I'm wondering if too frequent orgasms could somehow have placed too much demand for steroidogenesis, possibly each orgasms causing spikes of high testosterone/low estradiol followed by low testosterone/high estradiol. So if you abuse just enough, you could throw off the regulation of pregnenolone. I dont know.

In my specific case I've been looking at ways to increase preg naturally, and didnt find much. Ray Peat says taking preg might stimulate its own production, but he has said a lot of grabage too. I just started taking pantethine (active B5) in the hope of converting more cholesterol into preg. Cholesterol is brought to the cells by LDL particules, which I have plenty (something my Dr calls hypercholesterolemia, but whatever). some say i need to increase the size of my LDL particle by increasing saturated fats and decreasing all polyunsaturated fats (including fish oil) and carbs. Peat says increasing thyroid function and vit A status could also help.
« Last Edit: 28/03/2010 18:56:04 by demografx »
 

Offline Looking_for_answer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7137 on: 28/03/2010 05:58:04 »
I would also point out that (still assuming a normal distribution) my percentile for zinc RBC was 6%. This is high enough for the Dr to tell my that my zinc levels are fine, but if you think about it for a minute this is a catastrophe. A yound athletic male in his 20s having less zinc than 94% of the population used by the lab to make the normal range. More recently I tested several others, the percentiles are magnesium 20%, calcium 31%, copper 79%, FSH 19%, LH 31%, morning cortisol 23%, ACTH 9%. My Dr says all that is fine, all within normal ranges (which includes 2 standard deviations, which corresponds to about 95% of the population). But in my opinion this is a disaster. For example knowing that the average joe is too high in copper and too low in zinc, and then add to that that I'm below 94% for zinc and above 79% for copper. wow  ACTH below 91% of people. etc   these numbers look like someone on paliative care. Yet I'm quite healthy, at least when I avoid sexual activities.

I have started a solid supplement regimen to correct that, at 300mg of zinc daily, 2.5g mag, etc  everything in the most bioavailable forms. changed my diet entirely to a paleo style low-carb diet, modified to remove phytates to avoid binding minerals, etc  but fixing these numbers will take time.

The bottom line is, even if your doc tells you that something is fine, you should really sit there and think for yourself about what the number means and if you believe it makes sense for what you are. Also, even if you took some zinc or some magnesium for a few months and didnt see any noticeable improvement, I still wouldnt discard that possibility. you dont significantly rebuilt your mineral levels overnight.
 

Offline Looking_for_answer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7138 on: 28/03/2010 06:52:18 »
Finally, has anyone put to test the theory that prolactin goes too high for too long, causing among other thing a dopamine crash? I read somewhere thay 500mg/day of Vitex for a few weeks, or something stronger like bromo. maybe Cabergoline. could reduce the refractory period. basically any prolactin inhibitor, possibly combined, after the orgasm, with a dopamine agonist or just a precursor like l-tyrosine.

I'm also wondering if Could it be that prolactin, being the bonding hormone, is released in greater quantity when have sex whereas prostaglandin E2 and PSA would spike after masturbation? So frequent masturbation could perhaps throw off the whole system for a while, after which even intercourse would be followed by POIS. This is a random thought.
 

Offline Coreman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7139 on: 28/03/2010 11:30:13 »
Hi!

With a test period of 3 months, I take:

- St. John's-wort,
- Gaba
- banana (eating)

throughout the 1st day.

Dosage:
- St. John's-wort - 250 mg - every 2 hrs (never miss one)
- GABA - 500 mg - only if my mind feels blocked (mesmerized)

Side-effects: I feel a bit doped, however, I can think much quicker and more clearly. This combo often boost my mind.

This experiment shows that my problem is rather of psychologic kind.



 
 

Offline Porke

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7140 on: 28/03/2010 12:08:57 »
I would also point out that (still assuming a normal distribution) my percentile for zinc RBC was 6%. This is high enough for the Dr to tell my that my zinc levels are fine, but if you think about it for a minute this is a catastrophe. A yound athletic male in his 20s having less zinc than 94% of the population used by the lab to make the normal range.

Yea man, doctors will only admit there is a problem if you are COMPLETELY out of range in a blood test. This goes especially for hormonal levels. The level of testosterone is like 200 - 800. So if your @ 205 they consider you normal, but you are def not at your OPTIMAL level of function.
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7141 on: 28/03/2010 12:36:36 »

John, I forgot, does milk still affect you?

I don't know, I don't drink it. The only milk product I eat is yogurt, and that doesn't seem to have any negative effect.
 

Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7142 on: 28/03/2010 13:42:36 »
Looking_for_answers,

Sorry, I wasn't here when you were here before. How long does it take to get to your level of understanding of the system?

As you say, it must be very important to be able to evaluate what a doctor is telling you, you assume that he knows what he is talking about. I could take all of the tests in the world, and let them tell me what's wrong, but it seems that even they don't really know how to interpret things.

So it's even more difficult than I was thinking, to hire someone to tell us what tests to take, but finding someone to interpret them and provide a therapy even more difficult.

Pretty frustrating. We almost have to become our own doctors. Sigh!
 

Offline Looking_for_answer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7143 on: 28/03/2010 18:10:38 »
Quote
low pregnenolone can cause a lot of cognition problems, immune responses, fatigue, etc.
Yes, that's what I think but not tested yet.

Have you some articles about pregnenolone and immune system?


There is a lot of anecdotal evidence of preg improving the immune system in those who are deficient. It's like all other natural compounds, if you dont start with a deficiency in preg you shouldnt expect to get better with preg. This is something that limits a lot the research in these compounds, because the number of people who actually start with a deficiency in the compound being low implies the success rate will be low. But of course for the minority for started with a deficiency and cured it, the results are astonishing. Researchers perfer to find chemicals that act for a large percentage of the population, with a total disregard of what is causing the symptoms. Another problem with preg and other naturally occuring compound is that its not patentable, so research fund is scarse. Still I've come across studies about preg to cure rheumatoid arthritis and lupus.

i think preg deficiency has a lot of common symptoms with POIS. And the fact that my preg was so outrageously low 18-20h after my porn rant tells me that my orgasms are giving a beating to my preg status. That morning it took me a while to remember my phone number when asked at the Dr's office. 
 

Offline Looking_for_answer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7144 on: 28/03/2010 18:16:09 »
I would also point out that (still assuming a normal distribution) my percentile for zinc RBC was 6%. This is high enough for the Dr to tell my that my zinc levels are fine, but if you think about it for a minute this is a catastrophe. A yound athletic male in his 20s having less zinc than 94% of the population used by the lab to make the normal range.

Yea man, doctors will only admit there is a problem if you are COMPLETELY out of range in a blood test. This goes especially for hormonal levels. The level of testosterone is like 200 - 800. So if your @ 205 they consider you normal, but you are def not at your OPTIMAL level of function.

With that regard, I find doctors so dumb. I suppose they are just protecting themself against malpractice or quackery labels, but c'mon when you see a big dude coming in with a test of 300 u know something is wrong, I dont care that the ~2.5 percentile of the population happens to be at 200 or whatever the treshold they had set.
 

Offline Looking_for_answer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7145 on: 28/03/2010 18:25:16 »
Looking_for_answers,

Sorry, I wasn't here when you were here before. How long does it take to get to your level of understanding of the system?

As you say, it must be very important to be able to evaluate what a doctor is telling you, you assume that he knows what he is talking about. I could take all of the tests in the world, and let them tell me what's wrong, but it seems that even they don't really know how to interpret things.

So it's even more difficult than I was thinking, to hire someone to tell us what tests to take, but finding someone to interpret them and provide a therapy even more difficult.

Pretty frustrating. We almost have to become our own doctors. Sigh!


You're right, you have to be your own doctor. It's very counter productive but if your symtpoms arent fixed by statins, anti inflamatories, viagra or an anti depressant, then your on your own. I see my doctor as someone who can order the tests that I want, and hopefully write me a prescription if I decide that I  want to try a med. Dont expect yout doctor to tell you the tests that you need nor to interpret the results carefully. Because their guidelines are written (or at least heavily influenced) by big pharma, so the tests that they will give you will only be geared toward what big pharma has to offer in the market right now. If the solution of your problem reside with non patentable compounds, you'll never find out about it unless you dig yourself. 
 

Offline Looking_for_answer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7146 on: 28/03/2010 18:37:26 »
If we have any hope to fix this is by stepping up our game to the next level. One experiment could be if several of us would do a full hormonal, cortisol, neurotransmetters test at some point, then have a few orgasms during the next 24h and then come back for another round of the same tests. Maybe also a third round of testing 2-4 days later. We could then compare with what is predicted in the litterature and see where we overreact. I know this would be expansive, but if your insurance wont pay for it i think there are pretty good test available online (for example the life extension foundation).

Neurotransmetters are hard to test, but if we each understand better the effects of serotonin, dopamine, acetylcholine, GABA, etc just by writing down how we feel for the next hours and days after orgasms, we can probably deduce a lot about how they behave.

If anyone has tried or wants to try a prolactin inhibitor like the ones I suggested, and after a few weeks of abstinence try an orgasm or two to see if the response is different. But even if that was highly successful I wouldnot ignore pregnenolone.

 
 

Offline Looking_for_answer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7147 on: 28/03/2010 18:44:53 »
Something else that could be a productive exercise, if we would all test our minerals (at least magnesium, zinc, calcium, copper, selenium) and report the result as a percentile, as I did above. Suppose that we all happen to be above 70% for copper, or below 30% for zinc, or for magnesium, then we could gain a lot of informations. As I wrote above, Adding ZMA or some mineral to your diet for a month or two and not noticing results doesnt mean much. It can be bound to phytates if you eat lots of nuts or grains, or it could not be so well absorbed. For example on top of this page someone talks about dairy intolerance, lots of people have subclinical lactose intolerance, which cause some inflammation in the bowel but they never know. thats one way not to absorb minerals. there are many others of course

It's very reasonable to me that our body could go into a much deeper refractory period as an evolutionary mechanism to avoid depletion of something. It could be avoiding depletion of the precursors of a neurotransmetter or an hormone that is produced heavily during sexual encounters, or some ingredients of sperm, or a combination. 
« Last Edit: 28/03/2010 18:51:14 by Looking_for_answer »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7148 on: 28/03/2010 18:59:33 »

Yea man, doctors will only admit there is a problem if you are COMPLETELY out of range in a blood test. This goes especially for hormonal levels. The level of testosterone is like 200 - 800. So if your @ 205 they consider you normal, but you are def not at your OPTIMAL level of function.


Hi, Porke, I certainly agree with your "barely normal is not OPTIMAL" conclusion, but please allow me to disagree with the FIRST part of your post - about doctors not willing to admit to a problem.

When I was tested "normal" a few years back, I screamed and shouted to my GP and my urologist about needing testosterone for POIS. (I quoted 2 specialists, Dr Waldinger and a Czech sex researcher). It worked (they probably just wanted to get rid of me, finally  :D), and they gave me T-injections with monitoring. They did put me through hoops trying to discourage me (I had to buy the stuff myself, running back and forth to the MD's and arranging shots with the GP's nurse), but I still got my way.

I'm now on patches and they work very well for my POIS. For that, I was tested in a much more sophisticated lab and with a highly regarded endocrinologist who is sympathetic to POIS.
« Last Edit: 28/03/2010 19:29:45 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7149 on: 28/03/2010 19:06:33 »
Looking_for_answers,

Sorry, I wasn't here when you were here before. How long does it take to get to your level of understanding of the system?

As you say, it must be very important to be able to evaluate what a doctor is telling you, you assume that he knows what he is talking about. I could take all of the tests in the world, and let them tell me what's wrong, but it seems that even they don't really know how to interpret things.

So it's even more difficult than I was thinking, to hire someone to tell us what tests to take, but finding someone to interpret them and provide a therapy even more difficult.

Pretty frustrating. We almost have to become our own doctors. Sigh!


You're right, you have to be your own doctor. It's very counter productive but if your symtpoms arent fixed by statins, anti inflamatories, viagra or an anti depressant, then your on your own. I see my doctor as someone who can order the tests that I want, and hopefully write me a prescription if I decide that I  want to try a med. Dont expect yout doctor to tell you the tests that you need nor to interpret the results carefully. Because their guidelines are written (or at least heavily influenced) by big pharma, so the tests that they will give you will only be geared toward what big pharma has to offer in the market right now. If the solution of your problem reside with non patentable compounds, you'll never find out about it unless you dig yourself. 

I agree! We must take the lead with our doctors and treat them as our assistants! Hopefully, the experiences written here will help anyone reading this to better manage YOUR medical professionals!
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7149 on: 28/03/2010 19:06:33 »

 

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