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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6450364 times)

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #725 on: 21/06/2008 19:09:05 »
Where do we go to fill out the forms? Is there a site set up for that yet?
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #726 on: 21/06/2008 20:10:30 »
Where do we go to fill out the forms? Is there a site set up for that yet?

It isn't finished.  I have the code written, and a host secured, but it needs testing.
« Last Edit: 23/06/2008 06:29:04 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #727 on: 23/06/2008 06:28:55 »
Update.   There are some bugs that will take time for me to correct, and I am very busy with work at the moment. Also, I have been quite symptomatic recently. I do have a host, although I would prefer if a larger entity did the hosting.  I would still ask that people look into hosting possibilities (that  support php).   On the other hand, progress is being made, and this should all be ready within a relatively short period of time (min: 4 days, max 2 weeks).
« Last Edit: 23/06/2008 06:46:44 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #728 on: 23/06/2008 08:57:05 »
hi everyone,

Since early teens (now 42) I've been experiencing post-orgasm 'brain fog' that lasts from 1 to 4 days and often 6+ days. In my case, fog is a collection of symptoms that uniquely characterises this experience. Other symptoms may not always seem to manifest, but fog symptoms of varying intensity and duration have always been part of the experience.

I didn't associate brain fog with orgasm through my teens. It's possible my teenage life was an incoherent blur of orgasm-induced fog (one characteristic symptom in my case being a generally apathetic response to anything in life that didn't pose an immediate threat to escaping or deferring personal discomfort ... I spent a lot of time avoiding situations that, in my self-centered judgment, would not sufficiently reward my physical and/or mental effort and pain). Once I did make the orgasm/fog connection in my early twenties, I assumed that it was normal and that everyone (guys at least) had to put up with it. It was only about 10 years ago that these symptoms made my existence miserable enough that even deep fog couldn't obscure the fact I had to search for relief. I asked other guys questions about their post-orgasm experience and found them unable to relate to what I described.

Doctors (general practitioners mainly) so far seem completely unable to accommodate what I've described to them within any logical or intuitive diagnostic framework. They seem to be trapped inside the limits of differential diagnosis and behave defensively when presented with the idea of a relationship between brain fog and orgasm. They also seem prone to falling back on blood pathology results that are, in my case, consistently nominal. Admittedly, one of the most challenging things for me has been trying to communicate the specifics of symptoms to western medical doctors. Providing general descriptions of symptoms that might suggest a very broad range of causes, and then saying that the symptoms evaporate after a week or two without any medical intervention at all, is viewed (I suspect) as an obstacle to treatment by a medical fraternity focused on treating symptoms. However, given that it is so consistent and repeatable, brain fog could (and should) be viewed as a gift to any serious attempt at diagnosing or researching this syndrome. There have been occasions where I've attended an appointment and the conversation seems to imply I'm wasting doctors' precious time with a head problem. I beg to differ though; I'm no hypercondriac, but I'm also not yet ready to dismiss the possibility of POIS symptoms arising from psychophysical conditioning.

Before going any further I'd like to thank John21 for having the courage to post about his experience. I've spent a lot of time googling for explanations of my experience, but I didn't want to discuss this problem in a public forum, let alone on the Internet. So I've been reading this forum for a while as a supplement to other sources of information and I'm jumping in now because I'm hoping to at least help refine a description of POIS symptoms and possibly contribute a few questions that might diversify the investigation without muddying the problem further. It is my sincere hope that we can identify the questions that will eventually liberate John21 and the rest of us. Thanks also B_jim, demografx, Counterpoints, girlwind and gonzo; your contributions, and many others, are very much appreciated. I'm a bit surprised to find this many people experiencing this specific form of human suffering. It seems possible to me that there could be many many more who suffer in silence.

My fog symptoms are much like what many have already described. Gonzo's list of 12 items is a good example. The numbering in my list corresponds reasonably closely to Gonzo's list;

2. Inability to concentrate, entrain mental focus, or prevent mental drift for longer than a few seconds.
3. Severely degraded cognitive function (including reasoning, short term and long term memory)
4. Degraded ability to comprehend printed and spoken English, and speech difficulties
7. Derealisation (gonzo: Dream-like consciousness / surrealism)
8. Emotional dysphoria. Emotionally blocked or blank, apathy, emotional numbness/flatness (though frustration/anger did arise consistently in the past)
11. Inability to entrain steady visual focus. Shifting attention away from maintaining visual focus results in loss of focus.

I've experienced all twelve items on Gonzo's list but the excluded items don't always seem to occur.


--- re: Defining and refining symptoms

In addition to Counterpoints' excellent data collection efforts, and to complement them if possible, I'm wondering if it might be possible to narrow down the specifics of the key symptoms (particularly brain fog). I'm not certain about how to do this as yet, but I imagine collaborating with POIS sufferers to define an agreed list of symptoms and then elaborating sub-symptoms below each point. Then coming up with ways of describing the limits of each sub-symptom (this might require a more sophisticated collaborative environment than TNS is currently offering). One challenge with this might be that each person would have different levels of sensitivity and awareness of their symptoms. Another challenge arises from the nature of brain fog itself (being that brain fog tends to obstruct self-analysis in my experience).

Here's a couple more examples of what I mean by 'more detail' (using the list above);

'3. Severely degraded cognitive function' - one thing I've started trying to do with medical people is establish rapport or capture their attention with their own terminology (used correctly I hope), so I've been referring to "brain fog" as "acute mental akinesia" (meaning "temporarily unable to initiate specific types of mental action"). A specific type of mental akinesia such as "recall akinesia" might manifest as an inability to recall the names of very well known contemporary film actors. For example, "Who played the lead role in Minority Report, Vanilla Sky, Mission Impossible II?" I KNOW that I KNOW the actor's name, I know that I SHOULD be able to recall it almost instantaneously (normally I can). I might even be able to visualise the actor's face. But during an episode of fog it seems like the answer, the name, is right on the edge of awareness, but it just won't pop up into consciousness, as if there is not enough energy to tunnel across some neural threshhold, or there is an impenatrable veil between one mental subsystem and another. Once symptoms set in, that 'Who played..' question may not get answered for hours (or days, if I forget to make the effort to remember due to drifting mental concentration, even if I actively try to use associative recall techniques).

So a memory test might include a timed exercise of recalling well known names (which might vary depending on your country and native language). Taking the test would involve noting down things like number of items able to be recalled within a period of time, in addition to generally scoring one's own level of concentration on a scale of 1 to 10 (same as nurses ask a patient to rate their level of pain on a scale of 1 to 10 when deciding whether to administer morphine - pain, like consciousness and mental clarity, is a subjective experience).

Recall strategy may also be very useful when correlated across a number of participants. Some people recall names using internal visual cues; eg. linking an internal image of a persons face with an image or shape of the words in a person's name. Others might use auditory or kinesthetic cues. Knowing which strategies are more or less successful during an episode of POIS might suggest which parts of the brain are involved in the POIS process.

There might be other ways of describing specific symptoms as well. Again for recall, I sometimes describe it as if there is a jamming signal interfering with the normal flow of coherent thought.

Another example;  '4. Inability to communicate properly' - It would be useful to break this down into specifics. In my case I have problems not only understanding and analysing what I'm hearing or reading (receiving), but actually pronouncing words clearly is a real issue. It's as if the fine motor control required to fluently sequence and coordinate the machanisms of speech have been compromised. Even with close attention and effort, I can't seem to muster the control required to clearly articulate a large proportion of words. And then, as the fog subsides, the problem lifts (like lifting fog) and I can speak clearly and fluently again.

Headaches (number 10 on Gonzo's list), is another example ecause headaches (for anyone, not just POIS sufferers) could manifest in a wide variety of ways. In my case, there's a a very specific type of sensation on the scalp, which I associate with brain fog that might be described as a headache by some but not by others.

So the suggestion is to develop of method that everyone could use to identify, measure and document their symptoms.

.. continued ...
 

Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #729 on: 23/06/2008 08:58:48 »
... continued from previous post ...

--- Causes : Neurology, Endocrinology, Psychophysical Conditioning

Having just mentioned what appears to be a motor system problem with speech, I might just mention a few things about the possibility of a neurological (as opposed to endocrinological) basis for brain fog. Dopamine has been mentioned plenty of times in relation to POIS. It's possible that fog depends primarily on some kind of imbalance in the brain's dopaminergic systems.

Consider also that the possibility of a neurotransmitter imbalance is a reason to clearly distinguish "brain fog" from other POIS symptoms. If fog is caused by the (un)availability of neurotransmitters (eg. caused by dopamine being unavailable for uptake by receptors in one or more of the brain's main dopamine pathways), that could imply that something is blocking the uptake of a neurotransmitter, while symptoms other than fog might be caused by an absence of that neurotransmitter.

Let me try to clarify what I mean by that in the next couple of paragraphs.

Over the last few years I've been thinking that 'recall akinesia' might be the brain's equivalent of "gait freezing" which is a phenomenon experienced by people suffering from Parkinson's disease. For example, if a Parkinson's sufferer is standing up, they (like any healthy person) could form a "conscious intention" (i.e. volition) to take a step forward. So the "will" to move is there but the motor system may not engage. So they may just remain standing there, even though they are holding the mental "intention" (INternal TENSION) to move. Along with other Parkinson's symptoms this is caused by the absence of dopamine (ie. it's not that the action of dopamine is being blocked, the dopamine just isn't there to be taken up) and this can be compensated for by taking a drug like L-DOPA (a derivative of tyrosine, where a relatively small proportion of each dose crosses the blood-brain barrier, into the brain, where it is metabolised into dopamine).

So, could POIS brain fog be caused by a general lack of dopamine? The clues I have from observing my own symptoms seem ambiguous, but only if one assumes that dopamine levels vary consistently (ie. go up or down together) across all parts of the brain. However there are brain studies that show dopamine levels do not vary consistently throughout the brain, even though the vast majority of the the brain's dopamine is centrally produced. If you want to read about one example of this try (an ADHD dopamine study);
  http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1698925 [nofollow]

In my case, POIS symptoms continue beyond the point where sex drive and motivation (general "appetite") have been restored. I can also participate in a wide range of motor-system-intensive activities while fog is happening (eg. play a game of tennis, in spite of possibly feeling general myalgia and/or fatigue). It's possible that my prolactin levels remain elevated and suppress dopamine levels, but there are things one can do to help raise dopamine levels (like ingesting caffine and/or tyrosine and/or ice cream) and, in my case, while this seems to result in other symptoms that suggest an overabundance of dopamine, the brain fog can remain (for days..!). Pumping up my dopamine levels doesn't imply that balance between prolactin/dopamine has been restored to pre-POIS levels, but the persistence of fog may suggest that there is something blocking the uptake of dopamine (perhaps in the tuberoinfundibular and/or mesocortical dopamine pathways).

There are also some interesting things that come up when googling around this idea. For example;

"Chronic blockade of dopamine D2 receptors, a common mechanism of action for antipsychotic drugs, down-regulates D1 receptors in the prefrontal cortex and, as shown here, produces severe impairments in working memory. These deficits were reversed in monkeys by short-term coadministration of a D1 agonist, ABT 431, and this improvement was sustained for more than a year after cessation of D1 treatment. These findings indicate that pharmacological modulation of the  D1 signaling pathway can produce long-lasting changes in functional circuits underlying working memory. Resetting this pathway by brief exposure to the agonist may provide a valuable strategy for therapeutic intervention in schizophrenia and other dopamine dysfunctional states."

I've never taken an antipsychotic but, does the human brain secrete any kind of compound that has effects similar to an antipsychotic? Again, prolactin doesn't block the uptake of dopamine, it only down-regulates production (as does elevated seratonin apparently) so far as I can tell from general reading.

Interestingly, antipsychotic drugs can bring about a syndrome known as "akathisia", but akathisia can occur without exposure to a drug. Check out these symptoms (source URL below);

    - A psychological feeling of “Dis-ease”
    - Dysphoria
    - Apprehension
    - Anxiety (psychic and/or somatic)
    - Tension (psychic and/or somatic)
    - Impatience
    - Irritability
    - Impaired attention
    - Impaired concentration
    - Discomfort (physical)
    - Inner restlessness (especially lower body)
    - Fidgetiness
    - Inability to remain still
    - Compelled to move
    - “On the go”
    - Dysthesia*
    - Jerks

(* Dysthesia: An unpleasant, abnormal sensation, often described as burning, crawling, creeping or ant-like. It may be spontaneous or evoked.)

Check out the following link for the full description and google 'akathisia' for more;
http://psychiatricresourceforum.blogs.com/my_weblog/2006/09/akathisia.html [nofollow]

I'm far from convinced by the dopamine receptor blocking idea, but I wouldn't want to ignore it.

--- endocrinology

On the endocrinology front, the hangover effects of prolactin seems to get quite a lot of attention, but unless POIS sufferers have some special sensitivity to prolactin, I'm not sure it can account for brain fog on its own. And if prolactin can't account for fog, then it seems we could be looking at a broader type of endocrine dysfunction that is undetectable in blood pathology, even during an episode of POIS. I imagine that would be hard for an endocrinologist to accept, but even so I'm guessing there's still scope for endocrine problems, so I'd like to read more about it if anyone has time to write a summary of what they suspect or know.

Yet another study (seems likely some folks would have seen it); "Specificity of the neuroendocrine response to orgasm during sexual arousal in men". If not then here's a link;
  http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/reprint/177/1/57.pdf [nofollow]
 It's probably not necessary to read and understand the whole paper; the intro, conclusion might be enough to decide whether it is meaningful and relevant to an investigation into POIS.

--- psychophysical conditioning (neuroendocrine causes?)

An alternative but related hypotheses is an underactive ventral tegmentum complemented by overactive amygdala. By underactive I mean underproducing dopamine. Why might it be underactive? I don't know but, assuming it isn't defective or damaged, I have one suggestion which can be inferred from personal experience.

Let me preface this part by saying that intensity and duration of POIS for me seems to depend primarily on my emotional and mental state before, during and immediately after orgasm.

Specifically, when I feel 'affectionate love', or I feel 'in love' with my partner, POIS symptoms only last a day or so and have at times been negligible (low intensity), though still present.

And, for me, feelings of lust, craving, thirst for the release of orgasm (instead of 'affectionate love') followed by orgasm from either intercourse or masturbation, seem to lead inevitably to longer more intense episodes of POIS. In this emotional context, more than one orgasm, spaced out by hours or one day, seems to compound the duration and intensity of POIS symptoms (in a way that I can only describe as 'brutal!'). And I don't know about anyone else but whenever I have masturbated in the past, it has not been motivated by affectionate love for someone else. The intensity of the orgasm also seems to effect the intensity and duration of POIS and ejaculation (actual emission) is not a necessary precondition for POIS symptoms (maybe the fact that women are at risk for POIS helps narrow the field of causes - thanks girlwind for sharing).

Add to this, fear or even anxiety (habituated fear), and perhaps aversion (hatred) or anger. With this emotional context in play, POIS symptoms can be brutally intense and long lasting. Unfortunately in my case, I've had anxiety problems since childhood. Mood shifts, especially towards frustration and anger, used to seem like an inevitable part of POIS for me.

Over a period of years I've learned that these negative emotions are not an inevitable part of POIS. It's interesting to read that feelings of frustration, annoyance, anger, are common. I too felt this way for years (YEARS!), but it is counterproductive and, I strongly suspect, symptomatic of the syndrome itself.

If I may make one suggestion about how to help minimise the impact of POIS symptoms, it may be helpful to accept negative feelings by just remaining aware of them. Without adding anything to the negative experience of frustration, annoyance or anger ... without wanting the symptoms to stop (which just creates a feedback loop of negative mental and emotional tension) that may prolong the condition, just ramaining mentally equanimous, with detached observation of the condition, will serve you better in terms of immediate functioning and patient effort to be liberated from this condition.

If POIS is due to psychophysical conditioning, perhaps triggered by simultaneous activation of amygdala (either one or both, perhaps due to anxiety because of fundmentalist religious and/or family and/or cultural attitudes to sex) in association with the reward of orgasm (the idea being that 'things that fire together, wire together'), Then there is some clinical research that might (IMHO) offer some anecdotal support to the idea of POIS starting out as a psychophysical condition;

     http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/02/14/love.science/index.html [nofollow]

     http://www.alibi.com/index.php?scn=feature&story=7180 [nofollow]
     http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/36/robinson.html [nofollow]
     

However the problem with this idea remains; something should show up on a blood test. Elevated cortisol perhaps. In my case I've not had any abnormal blood results while in the grip of brain fog.

Finally, there used to be confusion in my mind about whether POIS is a chronic condition. This is because, for me, abstaining from sexual activity of any kind for a few weeks leaves me in relatively good shape. However, at best I'd say POIS is an unrecognised, acute (in the medical sense) psychiatric illness that prevents an otherwise average person from developing whatever potential they might have. 'Debilitating' is probably the right word. In my experience it cripples the intellect, it impairs learning, it may be a source of emotional agitiation or at least amplification of existing negative emotional disturbance, it undermines confidence, it damages social life and intimate relationships and limits career prospects.

But I'm generally optimistic about the future, especially now that POIS has been outed on the Internet. Perhaps now there is an fMRI and/or PET scan in my future, hopefully as part of an international study supervised by Vilayanur Ramachandran. Perhaps I’ll be required to lay there, very still, while some gorgeous lab assistant (an enthusiastic volunteer or course) does her best to blow my brains out (there must be some up-side to POIS; maybe this is it!)

Good luck everyone!
« Last Edit: 23/06/2008 21:03:47 by sparx »
 

Offline solution

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #730 on: 24/06/2008 00:31:59 »
I think that my post orgasm mental fog it is produced by something anoying in my digestive system. Imagine something inside your stomach or intestines for example, something that cannot manifest itself like pain, itching, cold, warm, etc, but it can send a singal to the brain enough to produce mental fog and scalp tension. And only relief will come once I evacuate enough.
 

Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #731 on: 24/06/2008 08:26:43 »
Since early teens (now 42) I've been experiencing post-orgasm 'brain fog'

Have you noticed any change in the intensity of the symptoms from when you were in your teens to now?  I am wondering if its possible to outgrow this horrible illness.  It is truly driving me mad.
 

Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #732 on: 24/06/2008 16:11:18 »

Hi all,

Iam happy too post here  ;D

Ive had POIS for say 4-5 years but it is getting better.

At its worst symptoms would last 5-7 days now it only lasts 12-24 hours.

I had blood test results too post which can give you a idea what is
wrong with my hormones.

Please note I have been on testosterone and hcg for a year now from
low testosterone levels for my age.

This is my Saliva hormone test result :



-------------------------------------------------

Estradiol (E2) 1.0 pg/ml 0.5-2.2

Progesterone 4230H pg/ml 12-100 (Very high)

Estriol (E3) 3.0 pg/ml 0-3.0 (High)

Estrone (E1) 4.2H pg/ml 0-3.0 (Very High)

Testosterone(Bio) 254 pg/ml 115-3700(5-50mg topical 12-24 hr) (rechecked with
Zrt and my testosterone levels are too high so have lowered testosterone doses)

Dheas 9.3 ng/ml 2-23(Age dependant) (Scale for 18-20s is 8-23 so my level
are in the bottom range, not good for energy and stress management)

Cortisol Morning 4.0 ng/ml 3.7-9.5 (Low)

Healthy cortisol levels should be at its highest in the morning apon waking and then it tapers down during the day and night. From my ZRT symptoms sheet it states I have Andrenal fatigue so that would explain my crappy energy levels and inability too deal with stress.

 

Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #733 on: 24/06/2008 16:23:25 »
This is my plans :

First too fix the good and bad ratio of the estrogens.(This will also increase testosterone levels so wont have too take as much tesosterone Im injections.)

High estrone levels in males are really rare and Ive only seen one male have success in lowering their estrone levels and not lowering estradiol levels too low.

He did this by taking a supplement called Dual Action Cruciferous vegetables (Lef) 6 tabs a day and 2 tmg pills for 3 months. He also recommended too add Calcium D glucarate for this protocol.

I will do this for 3 months and have monthly tests done too check the progress.

My progesterone levels were sky high. Zrt had asked if I was taking any
Progesterone cream ofc I wasnt.

From my research it seems Hcg is converted too Progesterone and also I was taking a product which had Pregnolone in it around 25mg each pill. It really helped
my chronic fatigue.

Anyways the Pregnolonone was converting too Progesterone which would explain the sky high progesterone levels.

No wonder my libido was shat as high progesterone levels also causes low dht levels which is a double hitter for crap libido.

Anyways have lowered my hcg dose and stopped the Pregnolonone and have started a small dose of Dht cream on the balls. Since doing this for 10 days or so ejaculation frequency went from E4D/E5D too E2D  ;D

 

Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #734 on: 24/06/2008 16:33:50 »


Too fix the low Dhea level Iam rubbing in 15mg of Dhea cream every morning.
This wont pass through the liver so wont have too worry about it converting
too extrogens :D

Will re-adjust dose after a month depending on test result.

For the low cortisol level, it is best too take Isocort first unless
the cortisol levels are below the scale which mine is just above the bottom.

Approx around 2.5mg of cortiol are in each pellet of 1 Isocort so I take
4x in morning, 2x 4 hours later 1 4 hours later and 1 more at bedtime.However you have too work towards this as it can produce Andrenaline dumps from the Thyroid hormones going through the bloodstreams too quick.

I follow the protocol from stopthethyroidmadness.com, they are really helpful people there on the forums.

Iam having another test done right now for free T3, IGF-1, SHBG and PSA.

Usually people with Andrenal problems have also Thyroid problems. I suspect my Free T3 levels are low as Ive measured my temperature levels before for a week every 4 hours and the change was much greater than 0.2 suggested for Thyroid problems.

Im checking my IGF-1 levels as low dhea usually means low IGF-1.

Ive had low Shbg levels in the past so just double checking on this one that hopefully it has reached the early mid 20s.

Psa is just for safety making sure I have no problems with the Prostate.




 

Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #735 on: 24/06/2008 16:42:29 »


After say 2-3 months once all the hormones mentioned have been improved,
I will do a before and after hormone test and a Neurotransmitter test too check what hormones and neurotransmitters actually flucuate after ejaculating when one
has POIS.

From my symptoms I would say drop of testosterone from lack of strength,
cold body temperature due too drop of thyroid free T3, drop of dhea and cortisol
due too lack of energy and cant handle stress and adrenaline dump.

Now if Testosterone drops alot then would the estrogen levels drop alot too due
too lower testosterone levels less aromtasing from testosterone too estrogen?

Also if Dhea levels drop alot then would this cause IGF-1/HGH too drop too?

We know that prolactin can increase alot after having sex or eating in normal healthy individuals but what about people with POIS ??

Iam willing too bet that Prolactin levels probably increase even more with POIS!!

Ive had high Prolactin levels in the past but I take Dostinex 1mg E2D too lower it. Will recheck prolactin levels later.





 

Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #736 on: 24/06/2008 16:48:45 »


I notice that the day after ejaculation sometimes it can cause stomach problems indigestion and diareeha.

I take digestive enzymes and probiotics and it has helped alot but it hasnt cured it. Someone recommended eating rye bread, I might give this a try.

It would be really helpful too everyone here with POIS that if you can afford it go
for a hormone blood/saliva test with your doctor or just order it from a testing lab like ZRT, Genevam Nutra etc

That way we could have evidence proof of what hormones are not optimal with people who have POIS and also the before and after tests would be extremely helpful in determining what is at fault.

I think it costs roughly 300usd for a Saliva home test kit too test all the hormones Ive mentioned above. The good thing is you dont need too go to the doctors, you just spit saliva in the test kit tube and send it back too ZRT Labs in the USA. They get back too you in a week with the results once they have received it :)





 

Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #737 on: 24/06/2008 16:58:47 »
oh yes another good thing about the hormone tests ....

It may be best too not have the hormone results evaluated by a local doctor as 9 times out of 10 they dont have a bloody clue about hormones.

They go by range and that includes everyone whether your age 18 or age 90.

Ive seen 3 local doctors and they said my testosterone levels were fine for my
age  of 21 since it was still in range. They dont go by symptoms or by age only
by the number.

So say someone aged 21 has a testosterone level of

350 range from 250 - 1000

Most doctors would say, your in range, your fine, you have no problems but healthy 21 year olds have testosterone levels above 700 easily.

Ive read many, many times from people who had hormone levels right at the bottom yet their doctors would tell them they are ok. They only realised this was the true problem after doing more research or talking with an Anti Aging medicine doctor.

If you can find an Anti Aging medicine doctor they are the best
for hormone expertise.

Or if you are reaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy lucky your local doctor might have alot of knowledge on hormones  ;D

 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #738 on: 24/06/2008 22:52:15 »
(Day 2 today)

Solution,

I have a suggestion concerning your thoughts on a potential intestinal problem. Try eating plenty soluble fiber, like apples and oatmeal. If you are right and there is an intestinal cause, this might help. On a daily basis eat some soluble fiber at each meal. You can also make use of oatmeal bread, and I like the oatmeal squares made by Quaker (although I don't eat them very often due to the trans fat content). The reason I am suggesting this is that I have noticed a potential correlation. The severity of my symptoms is not constant and I was looking for something to explain the variance. Soluble fiber might not be of benefit, but I have to persue anything that "seems" to work. I would love to hear if such a diet has any affect on your POIS symptoms.

 

Offline solution

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #739 on: 25/06/2008 01:08:47 »
John, I  think the intestinal cause is meant for the mental fog not for the POIS itself.  I mean POIS produces that intestinal anoyance and that produces mental fog.
I will try the soluble fiber diet, thank you.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #740 on: 25/06/2008 02:56:54 »
Hi to new comers and others.
A few years ago, i saw a naturopathic doctor. My wife had cancer and she went to see him to have a complementary treatment. Since i was there with her i decided to try a consultation for myself. This guy gave me a list of expensive tests (private lab) that i wanted to do at the begining but i changed my mind. I'm ready to pay for something useful but in this case i wasn't sure enough.
Michael8028 ,
You're probably a good guy and thank you for the information, but do you realize your posts looks like advertisements ?!

Counterpoints ,
About hosting you can send me all your code by mail if you want. My time is very limited but i'll try some free web hosts.
« Last Edit: 19/07/2008 14:23:23 by martin88 »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #741 on: 25/06/2008 04:51:50 »
Martin 88 (and anyone else interested)-- I've been researching labs for a couple days and found one that looks good to me.
It's called Bio Health Diagnostics (in San Diego). It's run by a naturopathic doctor (William Timmins) who has 20 years
experience working with chronic health issues, with the emphasis on getting to THE CAUSE. They have a whole slough of
adrenal/cortisol/hormonal saliva tests, as well as tests for intestinal parasites, candida, etc. 

Check it out at   http://www.biodia.com/index.html

Maybe this doctor could read up on our forum and give us his opinion on how to proceed?  Would it be okay if I forward him the
link and let him read all about us?
 

Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #742 on: 25/06/2008 06:31:24 »
I think that my post orgasm mental fog it is produced by something anoying in my digestive system. Imagine something inside your stomach or intestines for example, something that cannot manifest itself like pain, itching, cold, warm, etc, but it can send a singal to the brain enough to produce mental fog and scalp tension. And only relief will come once I evacuate enough.

hi solution,

I think it's possible your theory about intestinal problems might be at least partially correct, or may at least be a clue to the underlying causes of POIS.

It's also possible that the underlying causes of POIS lay elsewhere and could be masked by layers of, for example, neuroendocrine imbalance and feedback and possibly secondary disease caused by the stresses of suffering from POIS. In spite of the fact that so many here have endured POIS for years, I think it is still 'early days' in terms of coming up with a reliable diagnosis. For now I am assuming that we are all at risk of confusing primary with secondary symptoms and causes with effects.  Having said that, I'm very much in support of current efforts to enlist the help of an endocrinologist; that would be a great advance, and it wouldn't exclude other avenues of investigation (it might even open them up).

It does seem possible to me that forms of mental fog could result from a problem with the gut. I can recall relatively brief occasions in my life when gut problems have made it impossible to function effectively, partly due to being unable to concentrate properly. In my case, constipation, particularly if it continues for more than a couple of days, leads to a feeling of being uncomfortably bloated, which is not a sensation of pain, but a kind of tension that seems to interfere with clear perception and thinking. Being susceptible to anxiety, I've also noticed that my gut seems to react in unpredictable ways (for example I used to suffer from diarrhea in the 24 hours before having to board an aircraft). Stress seems to affect other mammals in similar ways as well (if you've ever tried taking domestic cats in a car to the vet, well ... sometimes things can get messy).

I can't say I've noticed any consistent relationship between POIS (esp. brain fog) and bowel movements. However, I do notice that sexual release does tend to leave me feeling pretty relaxed these days (in contrast to past experience where I would feel apprehensive or even annoyed / angry at having to endure at least few days of brain fog and other symptoms). Being relaxed, not worrying about things unnecessarily, particularly not worrying about whether my bowel is working, seems to give my gut the best chance of just doing its thing.

John21's advice about fibre is well worth taking note of IMHO. I'm a big fan of insoluble wheat bran in muesli; if I forget that then things don't go so well after a couple of days. But other than that I don't have any problems. I'll be getting some soluble fibre to see if that is effective too. Regularly getting some extra fibre in one's diet is essential IMHO.

Having read all of your posts in the past (and i just reviewed them again quickly), it looks to me like you are definitely suffering from POIS in terms of how it is currently being defined. So I hope you will continue reading and posting about your experiences and ideas. Without really knowing how many chronic POIS sufferers there are out there, I definitely have a feeling of kinship with you and many others here (because it seems quite clear to me that unless one has experienced POIS symptoms there is no way to really grasp how difficult they can be). It might take a while but I'm very confident that we will be able to look back at this condition in the light of understanding its causes and look forward to life that is not dominated by POIS.

Good luck  :)
« Last Edit: 25/06/2008 09:26:37 by sparx »
 

Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #743 on: 25/06/2008 09:13:17 »
Since early teens (now 42) I've been experiencing post-orgasm 'brain fog'

Have you noticed any change in the intensity of the symptoms from when you were in your teens to now?  I am wondering if its possible to outgrow this horrible illness.  It is truly driving me mad.

hi pyropeach,

Short answer is 'yes' and 'no'. Not very helpful, so let me elaborate a bit.

In so far as I recall the experience in my teens I'd say there have been some very remarkable improvements in my quality of life since then, most of which have developed over the past 10 years or so.

Memories of fog in my 20s and early 30s are of a reliably intense wall of condensed soup (a head state that seemed more like an impenetrable solid rather than a shifting cloud of vapor) that lasted at least 3 days and often longer.

These days the potential for intense, multi-day brain fog is still there and it does clobber me from time to time, but as I tried to explain in the second part of that long post the other day, my emotional and mental state before, during and immediately after orgasm seems to determine intensity and duration.

Masturbation is almost a guarantee of multi-day fog, whereas if I genuinely 'make love' to my girlfriend, for whom I have genuine affection, and with the intention and focus on making it fun for her, rather than seeking to gratify myself, and I continue to hold those positive feelings after orgasm, then fog can be of negligible intensity and only remains noticeable for a short time (it can effectively disappear after sleeping for a few hours).

So the improvements are not from outgrowing POIS, but more from trying to understand what affects it and paying attention to what helps and cultivating that instead of what hurts. That can be difficult at times, especially in a relationship situation, as others here have described, but it can be managed (somehow I went through full-time uni with good passes and a girlfriend, but there were some tough times).

Complete celibacy (meaning no sexual activity at all for at least a week, or even two or three weeks from time to time) is also part of the routine these days. That can be a real challenge if you live with a touchy-feely partner. As POIS goes I guess I'm fortunate in that I haven't experienced NE so far in my life. There are some other activities that I try to maintain which seem to help. In brief they include 'insight' meditation, exercise (aerobic & weight-bearing) and acupuncture treatments once every 6 weeks or so.

cheers & good luck  :)
 

Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #744 on: 25/06/2008 10:04:35 »
Hi to new comers and others.
A few years ago, i saw a naturopathic doctor. My wife had cancer and she went to see him to have a complementary treatment. Since i was there with her i decided to try a consultation for myself. This guy gave me a list of expensive tests (private lab) that i wanted to do at the begining but i changed my mind. I'm ready to pay for something useful but in this case i wasn't sure enough.
Michael8028 ,
You're probably a good guy and thank you for the information, but do you realize your posts looks like advertisements ?!

Counterpoints ,
Please, since you are in contact with scientific people at your work, perhaps you know about these kind of labs. What do you think ? I'm very interested but sceptical, or suspicious is a better term.

About hosting you can send me all your code by mail if you want. My time is very limited but i'll try some free web hosts.




I do apologise if my posts do come across as advertisements as that wasnt my intention.

My intention was too hopefully influence people too have their hormones tested as
a fellow POIS suffer for 4-5 years most of my hormones that I have had tested
have been imbalanced some either high or low which drwas too the conclusion
that other fellow POIS sufferers probably have imbalanced hormones as well.

In me recommending ZRT, Geneva and Nutra these 3 labs are known as the top 5 testing
labs worldwide for their reliabilty, quick service and accuracy from my research
and from my friends experiences from testing.

You do not need too have the tests done here if you can influence
your own doctor too have the test done for you.



 

Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #745 on: 25/06/2008 11:37:26 »
Here is a list of all the hormones at healthy optimal ranges
recommended by Life Extension:

http://www.lef.org/protocols/appendix/blood_testing_01.htm

Most of my hormones except Estradiol (E2) are out of the optimal range.

If you do get a hormone test done and your practitioners are not helpful
you can compare your results above.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #746 on: 25/06/2008 20:17:38 »
Welcome Martin, Sparx and Michael.
Please keep us informed about your gluten free diet. Not easy to do but you may have good results. In the past i have had strange nervous symptoms (strong nerve pain in the heart and left arm when falling asleep). This has been totally cured by stopping wheat for one year. I realized this by chance, away from home when i was out for holidays with the change of food.

Maybe this doctor could read up on our forum and give us his opinion on how to proceed?  Would it be okay if I forward him the
link and let him read all about us?
Sure, we have never enough practionners , doctors in this forum. In fact we don't have even one for now ! My question is why don't conventional doctors do saliva tests and more hormone tests. They say all is ok with hormones (in my case) . I don't understand. Thank you for the link. Getting to the cause sounds good to me because hormonal replacement may be a temporary solution.
     
 
« Last Edit: 19/07/2008 13:52:07 by martin88 »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #747 on: 26/06/2008 18:16:21 »
pyropeach: there definitely is hope for you to "grow out of this".  Obviously the people here are the ones who still struggle with it.  There have been cases of complete POIS recovery.  Unfortunately, once someone recovers they probably don't feel compelled to help others (anyone who recovers has to promise to let us know all about it! :) ).

This condition seems to affect everyone somewhat differently, and the symptoms vary rather greatly in their duration.

For me, things have definitely gotten better with time.  In fact, this last year I was close to 100% recovery.  I still no longer suffer from brain fog (on most occasions), and I know how to remedy that symptom in the case that I do.  The other symptoms have returned somewhat -- I would describe them as a feeling of being in great withdrawal -- but they are also improving.

One thing I would recommend is not to let go when you are feeling desperate.  Eat properly, get a good amount of sleep, and exercise.  Push yourself to do these things, no matter how you feel. 
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #748 on: 26/06/2008 19:43:45 »

Maybe this doctor could read up on our forum and give us his opinion on how to proceed?  Would it be okay if I forward him the
link and let him read all about us?


GIRLWIND, thank you!  Of course, please send the link!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #749 on: 26/06/2008 19:47:00 »
EXHAUSTION, FATIGUE

These are at the top of my list in contributing to POIS suffering. Am I reading correctly that Brain Fog may be worse than the exhaustion/fatigue?
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #749 on: 26/06/2008 19:47:00 »

 

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