[sparx]

Just thinking about a dedicated website for POIS.

Continue this thread here on TNS of course, but set up some other facilites (blogs, FAQ, RSS, newsletter, research, researchers, doctors, wiki, etc) in a more structured way. Might be easier to keep people informed and attract attention to POIS on the 'social networking' front.

Counterpoints : not sure if you've had luck finding somewhere to host your survey; would you consider publishing it on a dedicated site?

Any suggestions for a domain name? ( pois.org is already taken )

I know a web developer who might be willing to set up a basic site. It might also be possible to cover hosting costs with google adsense.

Might need people to volunteer as admins / moderators etc (very light duties I'm guessing).

Might need a very small amount of graphic design too (anyone like playing with photoshop)?

Everyone, please feel free to say what you think of this.

[demografx]

TO GIRLWIND

I hope you go through with it. For anonymity, you could always shade/hide your face. "Canon Rock" an extremely popular YouTube vid has 46 million hits, which is simply a kid on guitar, in his room, with his face unseen (although he's become a celebrity, hired to play gigs)

[martin88]

All the new texts of this forum are frequently indexed in google.
For example search in google for this :
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=All+this+POIS+info+has+become+more+complex+than+I+could+have+ever+imagined&btnG=Google+Search
So if we put keywords here it should be ok.

[John21 (OP)]

Martin: Yes but people might not be searching using "post" or even "orgasmic". I did some searches for "mental problems after sex" etc and I didn't see this site listed, at least as far as I looked into the results. 

[martin88]

John you can try : mental problems after orgasm or fatigue after orgasm
You certainly didn't find this topic in google since you're the initiator. (many thanks for this !). I found it in google, i wouldn't have been here without.

[martin88]

The fact that we can be found in google doesn't change my opinion about the film, it's a good idea. See this on youtube :

[girlwind]

demografx: I don't intend on being in the film, so I don't have to worry about shading my face. I'm intending to describe
POIS using mainly words on the screen, and maybe a few images, set to background music. I found something on youtube on
CFIDS that has the look of what I'm going to attempt to create about POIS.   

It's definitely going to take time to make this little piece. Even small productions can be time consuming, so don't expect
anything real soon. I've just planted the seed and am going to have to wait for the right music and images to show up before
I can start putting the words on the screen.

[girlwind]

John 21 and martin88--I think I found this posting by googling orgasmic exhaustion or exhaustion after
orgasm--something of that sort.

[sparx]

Just an FYI for those with time to read; following are references to the most recent discussions I know of about central nervous system activity during orgasm;

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-orgasmic-mind [nofollow]   - The Orgasmic Mind: The Neurological Roots of Sexual Pleasure - Scientific American, May 2008

A few notes on the article above;

• Page 3 'Forgetting Fear' talks about study results
• Female Vs. Male orgasm are very different in terms of brain activity
• The eight comments by readers (below the main article text) are worth reading in the context of page 3
• The main researcher's names are Gert Holstege, Barry Komisaruk, Beverly Whipple, Carlos Beyer-Flores

A book: 'The Science Of Orgasm', Komisaruk, Whipple, Beyer-Flores, October 2006 - The book http://www.amazon.com/Science-Orgasm-Barry-R-Komisaruk/dp/080188490X [nofollow]
This looks like a detailed guide but I don't yet have a copy.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/mind/stories/s1407052.htm [nofollow]   - The Orgasmic Brain (Gert Holstege interview transcipt)- Australian ABC Radio, July 2005

[sparx]

Could 'brain fog' be a symptom of a temporary 'dissociative disorder'? Anyone here able to say with certainty that it isn't and why? (much appreciated if you could!)

Misdiagnosis of dissociative disorders - http://www.arts.monash.edu/behaviour/dissociation/whatisdiss.pdf [nofollow]
Individuals suffering from dissociative disorders rarely present with the symptoms that define the various disorders. Often the individual will seek medical help for somatic complaints including headaches, visual disturbances and gastrointestinal problems or for other psychiatric conditions such as depression and anxiety. The failure of pharmacologic efforts to reduce these symptoms usually leads to misdiagnoses for yet further somatic and psychiatric disorders. ... The research shows that sufferers of dissociative disorders are likely to receive four or more misdiagnoses before their condition is correctly identified (Kluft, 1985; Putnam, 1989; Putnam, 1994).

[martin88]

To lower copper, they say one has to avoid copper rich foods like chocolate, yeast, mushrooms, soy products, wheat germ
and bran, shellfish and organ meats, and to eat more foods rich in zinc such as chicken, turkey, red meats, game meats, and pumpkin seeds.   

Your experience and information about zinc is interesting.
Ironically wheat germ and oysters (shellfish) are very good source of zinc with a high ratio zinc/copper,
(wheat germ : 12.3mg zinc/0.8mg copper= 15.3) (oysters : 16.6/1.6=10.3).
Source : http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
I suppose the right zinc/copper ratio is determined by the RDA (15/2=7.5).
Wheat germ was one of the best food for energy when i was running every day. (Now it cause irritability, i didn't try to take a lower dose however). Oysters (supplements exists) were also good (may be high in heavy metals).
You are right that these two foods are rich in copper and now i don't know if they are good for zinc or not...
About pumpkins seeds they contain more copper and less zinc than wheat germ.
(7.4/1.34=5.5) Source : http://www.thegreenoil.com/pumpkinseed_analysis.html
I'm not a naturopath, did i miss something somewhere ?

Hi 2shiny, i agree vitamin e may give a kind of relief for pois, specially if taken before orgasm (because i don't feel a lot the effect of vitamins taken after orgasm) However i don't agree to take such a high dose of 400 UI. The rda is about 10 UI/day. There is a synergy between vitamin e, selenium, manganese, and other unknown nutrients. Taking too much of one may decrease the others. Also i have to say that vitamin e can sometimes increase sexual intensity/frequency  leading to more exhaustion for me. A last comment, some people say it's not good for health (i don't know if it's about the natural form) : http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20041110/high-dose-vitamin-e-may-shorten-life-span

[Counterpoints]

Just thinking about a dedicated website for POIS.

Continue this thread here on TNS of course, but set up some other facilites (blogs, FAQ, RSS, newsletter, research, researchers, doctors, wiki, etc) in a more structured way. Might be easier to keep people informed and attract attention to POIS on the 'social networking' front.

Counterpoints : not sure if you've had luck finding somewhere to host your survey; would you consider publishing it on a dedicated site?

Any suggestions for a domain name? ( pois.org is already taken )

I know a web developer who might be willing to set up a basic site. It might also be possible to cover hosting costs with google adsense.

Might need people to volunteer as admins / moderators etc (very light duties I'm guessing).

Might need a very small amount of graphic design too (anyone like playing with photoshop)?

Everyone, please feel free to say what you think of this.

Hi sparx,
A working php form has been written and we have found a host.  More to follow soon.

[yukka]

Hello together, comes from germany,
have POIS since more than 20 years...

sorry for my bad english


Journal of Endocrinology, Vol 70, Issue 3, 439-444
Copyright © 1976 by Society for Endocrinology

Articles
Endocrine effects of masturbation in men
K Purvis, BM Landgren, Z Cekan, and E Diczfalusy

The levels of pregnenolone, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHA), androstenedione, testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), oestrone, oestradiol, cortisol and luteinizing hormone (LH) were measured in the peripheral plasma of a group of young, apparently healthy males before and after masturbation. The same steroids were also determined in a control study, in which the psychological antipation of masturbation was encouraged, but the physical act was not carried out. The plasma levels of all steroids were significantly increased after masturbation, whereas steroid levels remained unchanged in the control study. The most marked changes after masturbation were observed in pregnenolone and DHA levels. No alterations were observed in the plasma levels of LH. Both before and after masturbation plasma levels of testosterone were significantly correlated to those of DHT and oestradiol, but not to those of the other steroids studied. On the other hand, cortisol levels were significantly correlated to those of pregnenolone, DHA, androstenedione and oestrone. In the same subjects, the levels of pregnenolone, DHA, androstenedione, testosterone and DHT, androstenedione and oestrone. In the same subjects, the levels of pregnenolone, DHA, androstenedione, testosterone and DHT in seminal plasma were also estimated; they were all significantly correlated to the levels of the corresponding steroid in the systemic blood withdrawn both before and after masturbation. As a practical consequence, the results indicate that whenever both blood and semen are analysed, blood sampling must precede semen collection.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the study pregnenolone and DHEA (DHA) levels are increased after masturbation!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think supplementing DHEA is not always the key to the success.

I am 40 years old and had in 2004 a hormone test,
hours after I masturbated 1-2x/day for 2 weeks.
The value DHEA was 305 ug/dl (150-400)!
Estradiol was very low, progesterone and STH also!
DHT was very very increased! cortisol increased.

[demografx]

JUST A THOUGHT

The Journal of Endocrinology accepts advertising. I was wondering about all of us contributing to the cost in and taking out a small ad for a POIS Forum Advisor? (an endocrinologist)

Here's the link:
http://www.endocrinology.org/journals/advertising.html

Any thoughts? Anyone?

[martin88]

In the study pregnenolone and DHEA (DHA) levels are increased after masturbation!
I think supplementing DHEA is not always the key to the success.
I am 40 years old and had in 2004 a hormone test,
hours after I masturbated 1-2x/day for 2 weeks.
The value DHEA was 305 ug/dl (150-400)!
Estradiol was very low, progesterone and STH also!
DHT was very very increased! cortisol increased.

Hello Yukka,
I was searching for posts like this about dht.
Thank you.
Perhaps dhea supplements helps to decrease cortisol.
For dht i don't understand if a test was done after a long sexual abstinence, before orgasm and an other test after orgasm.

[demografx]

EMAIL LETTER I SENT TO SOCIETY FOR ENDOCRINOLOGY JOURNALS (Journal Of Endocrinology and The Endocrinologist)

We are an Internet Forum, http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.new#new
exchanging ideas among sufferers of a malady called Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

After orgasm, we suffer greatly for as much as a week afterwards with a variety of debilitating symptoms. To date, there is no cure. It has ruined many lives.

It is hoped that a research endocrinologist would step forward and look at our many postings from all over the world and show us a path to a cure. We have already made some promising headway through trial and error.

Several years ago, the first limited study of this illness generated quite a bit of international publicity for Marcel Waldinger, MD from The Netherlands. But we have gone far beyond his work.

I would think that a study such as this could qualify for a grant.

Can you help?

Sincerely,

[girlwind]

Demografx--Thanks for writing that letter. As for the add you want to post in the Journal of Endocrinology, how much
would that cost? I would definitely be willing to chip in, if we can all do it together and keep the cost down. How does everyone
else feel about the add posting?

I began working on the script for the youtube film. (I should probably call it a PSA, because that's more like it.) I have a question
about where the name POIS came from--who coined that name? Was it this forum that came up with it?

[jo58]

I was symptom free at the beginning of this current episode, but 3-5 days later I have experienced symptoms: mentally wiped, dull pain in lower back, a barely perceivable ache in groin area. My current thoughts: my problem (and possibly ours) is due to chronic prostatis. I have been tested for this years ago when I was relentlessly going to doctors looking for a cure. I had my PSA checked, secretion analyzed, semen ananlyzed, had more than one physical and had a camera jammed up my urethra for a look-see. Everything was "normal". But what I'm feeling now is telling me the tests were imperfect. Perhaps it is easier on a swollen prostate when you eat soluble fiber, less pressure against it. This of course would not explain girlwind's situation, but at the moment I am convinced. 

Hi John,

I'm in the same situation: I was diagnosed for chronic prostatitis many years ago, before I even got aware of POIS (but it's not impossible I already was suffering from it). I underwent the same tests as you (already had two yearly PSA checks, close to but just under the normal limit), except for the camera up the urethra (that sounds scary). I did have several echographies showing cristallisations (English ?)

Maybe there is something worth investigating here.

Also take a look at Wikipedia's entry for chronic prostatitis: newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_prostatitis/chronic_pelvic_pain_syndrome [nonactive]

[John21 (OP)]

Jo58:
The camera was of course on a tube and gently inserted, I was just being colorful... []

Wow, interesting wikipedia article.

the symptoms of CP/CPPS appear to result from an interplay between psychological factors and dysfunction in the immune, neurological and endocrine systems.[7]

Theories behind the disease include stress-driven hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis dysfunction and adrenocortical hormone (endocrine) abnormalities,[8][9] neurogenic inflammation,[10][11][12] and myofascial pain syndrome.[13][14] In the latter two categories, dysregulation of the local nervous system due to past trauma, infection or an anxious disposition and chronic albeit unconscious pelvic tensing lead to inflammation that is mediated by substances released by nerve cells

I feel like I should to take up yoga or something to relax that area, perhaps chronic tension is contributing.


I was reading about the "Budwig diet", which is purported to even help in cases of cancer. It is based on eating flax oil and cottage cheese blended together, do a search for the details. After a few days of feeling unwell I started the diet. Supposing that my problem is inflammation in the pelvic area I was curious to see what effect it would have. The days following I was definitely feeling like myself, the problem was gone. Was this due to the natural progression or did the diet help? At this point I have no idea but my suspicion/hope is that it helps. Here is how to make it:

[demografx]

I have a question about where the name POIS came from--who coined that name? Was it this forum that came up with it?

Thanks, girlwind. The term POIS came from the famous (and only) study conducted by Marcel Waldinger, MD in The Netherlands, and he himself coined that term and it was picked up by the media in reviewing his findings in 2002. Google "Waldinger POIS" if you need more info about his study (very few patient cases unfortunately).

We at The Naked Scientists Forum continued the use of that term till today.