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09/09/2010 08:20:06

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The Naked Scientists Forum | On the Lighter Side | New Theories | Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

daveyboy

Jr. Member

Posts: 81

Link to this post 300481
21/02/2010 11:27:27 »

Ironyman,
Im sure any good local neurologist in the US (if your from there) will know and be able to talk to you about the Cerebrolysin [mod edit - cerebrolysin is illegal to import into the United States] drug and its properties, whether you are suitable candidate for it.

There may be a preferable better US equilvant. You're 19 years old right?
Dont jump in and start talking drugs you havent been advised to.
Dont jump in and start talking drugs you havent been advised to.
I wrote it twice because its important.
The US has the best experts in the world (not russia, no disrespect).

Google some neurologists, phone/write to them, get tests done.
Google some endocrinologists, get tests done.
There's a long list of things to be tested for on below
speak to experts and if your going to try cerebrolysin [mod edit - cerebrolysin is illegal to import into the United States] you can be expertly monitored as you do. they'd be able to inject it properly etc.
thanks to pedro though, for giving his story.

Quote from: CCconfucius on 28/01/2010 18:55:17

Quote from: hazey on 27/01/2010 02:31:14

I have an appointment with a supposedly very good Dr who specializes in Thyroid/Adrenal, hormones and anti-aging. I want to get the below tests done prior to my consultation.

Can anyone think of anything else I should be getting tested and when would be best to have the collection done. Day 1, Day 2 after O

Thanks.

Blood Test
===========
Total+Free/Bio Testosterone
LH+FSH
Estradiol(E2)
SHBG
Prolactin
DHEA
Costisol
IGF-1
Progetesterone
Dht,
TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3
Magnesium

(+ adrenaline
crp)?

Saliva Test
===========
Cortisol (Morning, noon, evening, night)
Estriol, Estradiol, Eestrone,
Progesterone
Testosterone
DHEA

Neurotransmitter Test
=====================
Serotonin
Acetylcholine
Dopamine
GABA
Histamine


« Last Edit: 21/02/2010 23:55:10 by demografx »	Logged

daveyboy

Jr. Member

Posts: 81

Link to this post 300486
21/02/2010 12:06:29 »

On a lighter note,
Ive wondered, how do people pronounce POIS?
Is it like 'po-is', or sounding like 'poise'?


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martin88

Sr. Member

Posts: 375

Link to this post 300496
21/02/2010 12:55:03 »

Quote from: demografx on 20/02/2010 16:14:06

And I also don't wish to increase the dose, yet, which keeps me at low-normal.

my T is also at low normal and I have severe POIS. I'm wondering if I can have an erratic T secretion, maybe T is not what it should be during the night. I don't have a refreshing sleep during POIS. Maybe we need something like a 24h T test, or a constant monitoring test during sleep.

Quote

In elderly males, the coordinate release of LH and testosterone became asynchronous despite normal serum levels of these hormones....

Our findings suggest that in middle-aged men, less pulsatile testosterone and more LH are secreted at night than in young men, with disruption of the association between testosterone rhythm and REM sleep. The decline in nocturnal testosterone secretion appears to involve a combination of testicular and pituitary hypogonadism.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14951476


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Guthrie

Full Member

Posts: 108

Link to this post 300508
21/02/2010 14:08:10 »

Good question! I don't think it's ever been really discussed on this forum. For myself, I have always pronounced it P-O-I-S (saying the name of each letter, as in the pronunciation of 'TNT'--I suppose both POIS and TNT can have harmful 'explosive' properties!)

Quote from: daveyboy on 21/02/2010 12:06:29

On a lighter note,
Ive wondered, how do people pronounce POIS?
Is it like 'po-is', or sounding like 'poise'?


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daveyboy

Jr. Member

Posts: 81

Link to this post 300533
21/02/2010 18:39:08 »

Quote from: Guthrie on 21/02/2010 14:08:10

Quote from: daveyboy on 21/02/2010 12:06:29

On a lighter note,
Ive wondered, how do people pronounce POIS?
Is it like 'po-is', or sounding like 'poise'?

bit long winded though. like it's a word too shameful too say out loud,
like that country song D-I-V-O-R-C-E.


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demografx

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Link to this post 300534
21/02/2010 19:00:26 »

I pronounce it like "noise" but it's up to you.


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demografx

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Link to this post 300541
21/02/2010 19:33:44 »

Quote from: martin88 on 21/02/2010 12:55:03

Quote from: demografx on 20/02/2010 16:14:06

And I also don't wish to increase the dose, yet, which keeps me at low-normal.

Quote

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14951476

Martin, excellent point! 10mg Androderm T-patch daily brought me within normal range. Which helped my POIS, but I wanted more (greedy me grin

)...so I asked for a 50% increase to 15mg - and THAT worked much better!

I asked for the increase because I experimented and took 15mg when POIS started, and that helped.


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demografx

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Link to this post 300565
21/02/2010 23:08:51 »

No, I am on the patches now and in the forseeable future. My body simply does not manufacture enough on it's own. I will be re-tested soon.


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martin88

Sr. Member

Posts: 375

Link to this post 300572
22/02/2010 00:38:21 »

Quote from: demografx on 21/02/2010 23:08:51

Martin, excellent point! 10mg Androderm T-patch daily brought me within normal range. Which helped my POIS, but I wanted more (greedy me grin

)...so I asked for a 50% increase to 15mg - and THAT worked much better!

I asked for the increase because I experimented and took 15mg when POIS started, and that helped.

Demo, I agree, low normal levels are not enough!
Everybody is saying this to me ((except my doc).
Are you wearing the patch 24h/day ?


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demografx

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Link to this post 300590
22/02/2010 03:59:59 »

Martin, yes I am.


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acronym

Newbie

Posts: 32

Link to this post 300621
22/02/2010 12:21:49 »

Attention John21 - RE: B12
"Is there some other method you could use to get the homocystine levels down? I suppose maybe not, as you would have been advised. Are you sure it is 10 mg injection and not 10 mcg?"

John - Sorry I misread the label, it actually works out to be 5mg per injection. Yes this is high. I was on 2.5mg previously, but have not noticed any more benefit from the higher dose. I am near the end of my current lot and definitely notice it is not as effective when I first got them so the potency does degrade even though I keep it in the fridge.
A high level of blood serum homocysteine is a reasonably strong risk factor for cardiovascular disease (degrades and inhibits the formation of artery). I dont think there is a lot out there that directly targets high homocystine levels. It is not something that most people would normally get tested for and it would not surprise me if most doctors are ignorant of it. Actually I think Melatonin was supposed to help reduce it. I am also on and off that to help with sleep, which has been good for me. From what I gather homocystine levels dont fluctuate much so I dont think you could corelate it to pois. It certainly might aggravate the condition butI dont think it explains it...IMO. I think its a case of the B12 helping with symptoms.


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acronym

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Posts: 32

Link to this post 300629
22/02/2010 13:09:13 »

Quote from: martin88 on 19/02/2010 14:22:17

-my trial with phosphatidylserine didn't bring relief. Only a very small improvement (slightly nerve tonic).
Fenugreek was more effective (30% improvement for POIS), but with inconsistent results.
Appetite was increased a lot on it, and sexual frequency was increased which I don't like.

-good I didn't see the endo yet, I'll be able to ask for a progesterone test. Norethisterone seems to be androgenic and anti estrogenic (source: BIAM).

Martin88
I have been using phosphatidylserine and I also have to report disappointment..also just the slightest improvement. I was 50% strength. I had tried it back in the late 90s and noticed a cognitive boost with a different brand that I could get anymore.
Fenugreek I tried and was very impressed the first week but its effect faded after that. I have not tried it for quite a while. I would have loved to have gotten an appetite boost.

Good luck with your endo. I hope you find him/her less closed minded than mine have been. It was great find by Isitme or Guthrie about that article on that guy who took Norethisterone. It could be something. Progesterone is considered to be predominantly a female specific hormone....but is also plays a role in endocrinology of men but is not something that I expect would be checked much by doctors in men (I haven't). Something like this hormone could help to account for why pois is overwhelming a male issue.
I just checked and it seems that DHEA operates on different biochemical pathway to progesterone even though both are connected to testosterone. Pregnenolone is one step further back still. It doesn't explain why Demo gets great pois relief with testosterone which is created further along the process from progesterone. Also from an article I read someone who had a vasectomy should have lower progesterone levels.


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acronym

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Posts: 32

Link to this post 300637
22/02/2010 13:44:50 »

Quote from: martin88
Demo, I agree, low normal levels are not enough!
Everybody is saying this to me ((except my doc).
Are you wearing the patch 24h/day ?
[/quote

You will need to find an enlightend doctor to assist you with 'low normal levels'. A sports medico or anti-aging medico would likely be better than an endo or regular GP/MD. I had symptoms of low testosterone for years and and got low readings. I was told I was too young to take TRT (yeah better to take it when you are retired than during the peak years of your life) or that I was low but still just in the normal range (thats fine ..you are with 95% of the male population....no I'm in the bottom 5% of the bell curve) It was only after many years that I had a doc who measured my free T levels that where quite low, who finally did something about it. Make sure your Endo requests 'free testosterone' test. While TRT has not cured pois for me, I definitely feel better for it.
As I was lead to believe, the normal ranges one sees on pathology reports are statistically based on the results of past patient blood tests. This would mean the 'normal' range would be skewed on the low side because the majority of T tests would be performed on men who are fatigued & not feeling well and are visiting their doctor and not strapping fit healthy guys who have no need to visit a doctor. If your girlfriend goes to the doctor to request estrogen for birth control, she's out in 5 with a script, but when it comes to testostene...


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demografx

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22/02/2010 16:03:37 »

Acronym, interesting. Is the quote under Martin's yours or someone else's?


« Last Edit: 22/02/2010 19:08:51 by demografx »	Logged

acronym

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Posts: 32

Link to this post 300709
22/02/2010 21:44:27 »

Hi Demo
In response to your post above. It's my post, its just that I logged in using IE and not Firefox browser, and there is a problem with java on my IE so when I clicked on link to post it did not seem to work.
Also you asked me a question a month back on how much teestosterone I was on. I am on rougly 7-10mg per day. I still use injections. I use sustanon100 instead of sustanon250 and take more frequent injections. Definitely more frequent lower doses is better. I tried the creme and I just did not seem to get the same benefit plus got more hair loss with with it. I have not tried the patches or implants.


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demografx

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Link to this post 300721
22/02/2010 23:42:17 »

Acronym, speaking just for myself, patches are a great deal better for me, although I only tried injections 1-2X per month. My endo doesn't care much for injections because of the "spiking", an unsteady up and down of T in the system. But I certainly can't say what's right in your case.


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demografx

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Link to this post 300722
22/02/2010 23:59:24 »

Norethisterone and cancer - dead link: someone just PM'd me to let me know there was an error in the original link, so I corrected it and I am re- posting it below.

I'm not sure what this means as to the potential relationship between norethisterone and cancer(no human studies done), but I thought I would post this link to be on the safe side:
http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleventh/profiles/s139nore.pdf

edit: also not sure how this affects progesterone


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martin88

Sr. Member

Posts: 375

Link to this post 300732
23/02/2010 01:12:18 »

Quote from: acronym on 22/02/2010 13:09:13

Thanks Acronym. I took the Solgar brand for fenugreek and it's effective. Maybe gentian is good for appetite, it's antidepressant also.

My free T was low normal too, but I think T would still be helpful for me.

About progesterone, Yukka was tested low but he doesn't say if it was normal:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg185405#msg185405

Quote from: demografx on 22/02/2010 23:59:24

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleventh/profiles/s139nore.pdf

interesting document Demo.


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silverandcol

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Posts: 9

Link to this post 300744
23/02/2010 04:08:38 »

damn i just had an NE after weeks of celibacy ><. i wonder if the pois effects would be less from a NE. I never found out though because I always that I might as well masturbate, if I was going to get pois anyways. Anyone experience less pois symptoms from NE? and how do u guys stop it? usually i drink some water before i sleep, but im sick this week and did not want to wake up in middle of night, needed full sleep to heal. but i guess it backfired.


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demografx

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23/02/2010 05:39:38 »

silverandcol, we have discussed several ways to minimize NE's. Hope this helps.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=nocturnal+emissions+NE+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&rlz=1W1DAUS_en&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=a048890d3c90c6fc


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mellivora

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Posts: 46

Link to this post 300796
23/02/2010 11:03:32 »

Quote

I'm not sure what this means as to the potential relationship between norethisterone and cancer(no human studies done), but I thought I would post this link to be on the safe side:
http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleventh/profiles/s139nore.pdf

Thanks for reposting this link Demo. It's obviously a very important potential risk to be aware of. Dr Dexter reported in his paper that Merck, the manufacturers of the drug, confirmed there were no known harmful side effects of norethisterone in (human) males. In the light of the National Toxicology Program's conclusions that you linked to, one is left wondering about long-term usage and its important to be aware of both reports.

(It should also be said that lots and lots of substances have been found to have carcinogenic effects, including many substances found in everyday foodstuffs and even chlorine that is used to treat drinking water. The carcinogenic risk from such substances seems to depend a lot on the concentration of that substance in the body which can accumulate over time with long-term use/ingestion. I don't know how the carcinogenic risk of norethisterone would compare to say a substance found in shampoo or any of a host of other apparently carcinogenic substances we ingest everyday. Tea can have carcinogenic and anti-cancer properties! It's a minefield!

I guess it's up to the individual to assess what an acceptable level of risk is but the information available to make that decision seems to be difficult to interpret and sometimes conflicting).

Incidentally, if anyone wants an idea of the range of carcinogens we encounter everyday you can start with this google search:
http://www.google.com/search?q=carcinogen+everyday+food&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLL_en


« Last Edit: 23/02/2010 12:29:30 by mellivora »	Logged

mellivora

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Posts: 46

Link to this post 300831
23/02/2010 14:36:53 »

Quote from: demografx on 22/02/2010 23:59:24

edit: also not sure how this affects progesterone

Further to my post above, if norethisterone is a synthetic version of progesterone and is carcinogenic, one might also expect naturally occuring progesterone to be carcinogenic and that does indeed seem to be the case!! (though not necessarily proven in humans)
http://www.google.com/search?q=progesterone+carcinogenic&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLL_en

Progesterone also has anti-cancer properties!:
http://www.google.com/search?q=progesterone+inhibits+cancer&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLL_en

Which just goes to show how careful you need to be when assessing risks of chemicals! This MAY mean that norethisterone is no more carcinogenic than the progesterone produced by a normal body and might even have anti-cancer properties too!


« Last Edit: 23/02/2010 14:41:09 by mellivora »	Logged

B_Jim

Sr. Member

Posts: 458

post ejaculation tiredness, fatigue after orgasm

Link to this post 300838
23/02/2010 15:09:25 »

If we look steroid hormones synthesis :

We have Demo's succes with testo on the right,
Agjchs 's succes with DHEA right side,
scientific study succes with progesterone on the left side.

But progesterone can be converted to the right side by hydroxyprogesterone/androstenedione pathway if needed (I suppose in Pois).

Some of us find stress (cortisol) makes the Pois stronger, and some guys are healed with Relora (less cortisol, more DHEA).


« Last Edit: 23/02/2010 15:23:28 by B_Jim »	Logged

demografx

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23/02/2010 17:47:50 »

Fascinating, B_Jim!!


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demografx

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Link to this post 300871
23/02/2010 17:55:14 »

My imperfect cure

Yesterday was Day Zero, and with more stress, I wasn't feeling great. I enrolled in cardiac rehab exercises, and I could only do half of what I did last time. I briefly napped late afternoon and that helped.

But today is "Day 1" and I do feel great. Which has NEVER happened before my treatment. And this has been consistent for over a year now.

So, even when my cure is not optimal at any given incident - it is a GIANT improvement over my old POIS life of 30+ years. I am very fortunate, and I thank this forum.


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