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Author Topic: TheBox on black holes  (Read 16213 times)

Offline Thebox

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TheBox on black holes
« on: 11/02/2016 17:52:55 »
Hang no more.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35524440

I have viewed quite a lot of this already, I for one think it is more propaganda from science. I do not believe them, they have made the experiment sound so complex as to not let normal people even understand it.  I smell conspiracy all over. How odd that science is being pressured everywhere by people then out pops this in an attempt to keep Einstein ''alive'',


Complete lies regardless what they tell us.



 

Offline Ethos_

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TheBox on black holes
« Reply #1 on: 11/02/2016 17:57:39 »
Hang no more.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35524440

I have viewed quite a lot of this already, I for one think it is more propaganda from science. I do not believe them, they have made the experiment sound so complex as to not let normal people even understand it.  I smell conspiracy all over. How odd that science is being pressured everywhere by people then out pops this in an attempt to keep Einstein ''alive'',


Complete lies regardless what they tell us.
And I had begun to think there was hope for you Mr. Box, evidently I was sadly mistaken.....................
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #2 on: 11/02/2016 18:00:12 »
It's a very simple experiment to detect a very simple phenomenon. The only problem was of engineering, not science, because the effect is extremely subtle. What bit don't you understand? We've been using gravity since the universe began, and laser interferometers for about 50 years. If the whole thing was a conspiracy, the result would have been announced a long time ago! 
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #3 on: 11/02/2016 18:00:42 »
Hang no more.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35524440
A new era of astronomy has birthed.

No it hasn't, I watched your link, since when do we observe black holes directly?

Since when does a computer simulation prove anything?

How do you know any ripples are not inverted light etc etc?


How does anyone in the right mind perceive that machines on earth that uses a t shaped laser detect two black holes in space?


What garbage





« Last Edit: 11/02/2016 18:11:33 by Thebox »
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #4 on: 11/02/2016 18:02:21 »
It's a very simple experiment to detect a very simple phenomenon. The only problem was of engineering, not science, because the effect is extremely subtle. What bit don't you understand? We've been using gravity since the universe began, and laser interferometers for about 50 years. If the whole thing was a conspiracy, the result would have been announced a long time ago!


And science was not under pressure until the last few years , physics is under pressure to produce. The experiment proves nothing.

''That view was reinforced by Professor Stephen Hawking, who is an expert on black holes. Speaking exclusively to BBC News he said he believed that the detection marked a moment in scientific history.''  nobody can be an expert in something we do not observe.

''Einstein himself actually thought a detection might be beyond the reach of technology.''  Einstein is correct on that one.


« Last Edit: 11/02/2016 18:09:38 by Thebox »
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #5 on: 11/02/2016 18:10:58 »
It's a very simple experiment to detect a very simple phenomenon. The only problem was of engineering, not science, because the effect is extremely subtle. What bit don't you understand? We've been using gravity since the universe began, and laser interferometers for about 50 years. If the whole thing was a conspiracy, the result would have been announced a long time ago!


And science was not under pressure until the last few years , physics is under pressure to produce. The experiment proves nothing.

''That view was reinforced by Professor Stephen Hawking, who is an expert on black holes. Speaking exclusively to BBC News he said he believed that the detection marked a moment in scientific history.''  nobody can be an expert in something we do not observe.

''Einstein himself actually thought a detection might be beyond the reach of technology.''  Einstein is correct on that one.
Good Grief!!!!!!!
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #6 on: 11/02/2016 18:15:06 »


''Einstein himself actually thought a detection might be beyond the reach of technology.''  Einstein is correct on that one.
I'm sure Einstein would be very pleased to hear that you approve, that is if he were still with us. Truth is, he's probably turning over in his grave as we speak.
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #7 on: 11/02/2016 18:19:24 »


''Einstein himself actually thought a detection might be beyond the reach of technology.''  Einstein is correct on that one.
I'm sure Einstein would be very pleased to hear that you approve, that is if he were still with us. Truth is, he's probably turning over in his grave as we speak.


Gravity waves do not exist, space does not move, things move through space, a temporal distortion in a laser field does not show a gravitational wave or two blaCK HOLES MERGING, It seem quite timely if you ask  me.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #8 on: 11/02/2016 18:22:04 »
It seem quite timely if you ask  me.
Nobody has, or will.
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #9 on: 11/02/2016 18:24:58 »



Gravity waves do not exist, space does not move, things move through space, a temporal distortion in a laser field does not show a gravitational wave or two blaCK HOLES MERGING, It seem quite timely if you ask  me.
Present us with your evidence Mr. Box or quit trying to highjack this thread.
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #10 on: 11/02/2016 18:26:55 »
It seem quite timely if you ask  me.
Nobody has, or will.

well obviously not, because the higher powers above science care about control, they have to keep the parlour tricks going.  Everyone with half a brain knows space behind the light and mass is made of nothing, nothing can not ripple or wave.



 

Offline Thebox

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #11 on: 11/02/2016 18:28:05 »



Gravity waves do not exist, space does not move, things move through space, a temporal distortion in a laser field does not show a gravitational wave or two blaCK HOLES MERGING, It seem quite timely if you ask  me.
Present us with your evidence Mr. Box or quit trying to highjack this thread.


there is no aether , space is made of no fabric, nothing can not wave or ripple , only things can ripple through nothing.



A moving hand should affect the laser because of mass gravity.

yet blackholes millions miles away affect it,

 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #12 on: 11/02/2016 18:32:26 »
Quote from: Thebox

there is no aether , space is made of no fabric, nothing can not wave or ripple , only things can ripple through nothing.



Those are just your opinions, they present us with absolutely no evidence. And you know what they all say about opinions..........right?
« Last Edit: 11/02/2016 18:35:38 by Ethos_ »
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #13 on: 11/02/2016 18:35:26 »



there is no aether , space is made of no fabric, nothing can not wave or ripple , only things can ripple through nothing.



Those are just your opinions, they present us with absolutely no evidence. And you know what they all say about opinions..........right?
[/quote]


OK, you science says mass is attracted to mass and has gravity and gravity waves, a mysterious force between objects, if you move your hand above the laser then the gravity from your hand should affect the laser, if two black holes merging miles way can affect the laser, with a gravitational wave, then so must your hand from a closer distance.

Detected two black holes is hilarious.

 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #14 on: 11/02/2016 18:43:59 »

Detected two black holes is hilarious.
Nope...................But what is truly hilarious is your behavior Mr. Box. You actually presume to be in a position to correct giants of science like Einstein, now that's what's incredibly hilarious.
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #15 on: 11/02/2016 22:12:36 »

Detected two black holes is hilarious.
Nope...................But what is truly hilarious is your behavior Mr. Box. You actually presume to be in a position to correct giants of science like Einstein, now that's what's incredibly hilarious.

My apologies for the over reaction, I watched a video that said this proved all of Einstein stuff to be true, and obviously I am working hard to contest GR and SR and my instant reaction after seen the original post was to react .


I still say it is not true regardless of the results.

 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #16 on: 11/02/2016 22:59:43 »



I still say it is not true regardless of the results.
My friend, and truly I would like for us to be such, how can you possibly grow in knowledge if you ignore "the results"? It's what makes science fun and interesting and the great adventure of confronting the unexpected.

All science "must consider the results", whether we like them or not.

Please,.... honestly consider your motives my friend. Do you really want to know the truth or do you want to make it up as you go? In the end, if you settle for merely something that appeals to your senses but is found to be in error, you will gain nothing. Fact is, you'll lose and have nothing to blame but your preconceived prejudices. Such a waste Mr. Box. You're too smart to allow this to happen, I certainly hope so anyway.
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #17 on: 12/02/2016 08:16:17 »



I still say it is not true regardless of the results.
My friend, and truly I would like for us to be such, how can you possibly grow in knowledge if you ignore "the results"? It's what makes science fun and interesting and the great adventure of confronting the unexpected.

All science "must consider the results", whether we like them or not.

Please,.... honestly consider your motives my friend. Do you really want to know the truth or do you want to make it up as you go? In the end, if you settle for merely something that appeals to your senses but is found to be in error, you will gain nothing. Fact is, you'll lose and have nothing to blame but your preconceived prejudices. Such a waste Mr. Box. You're too smart to allow this to happen, I certainly hope so anyway.


New results are to be questioned yes?

I instantly discoursed the information and found there is nothing that suggests that they detected a gravitation wave or two black holes merging.

I have no idea why they are trying to use a laser to detect gravity, light is massless and can only be ''changed'' by power differences.

So what is the significance of using a laser?


Why does the gravitation of the tubes or a passing hand not affect the beam but yet from miles away a weak signal altered the beam?

What I have gathered the results are the result of a computer read out?


I have  a laser, the force of wind does not affect a laser, so why would a gravitational wave be any different?

To confirm the experiment I observe three things, they would need to show and prove light has mass, then they would need to prove what space is  made of and finally they need to show us the observation of a black hole(s) they said caused the anomaly.


Consider this Ethos, they spent years wondering about the double slit experiment and why this happened, I came along and instantly spotted observer effect, the act of putting an obstacle in the way with an angled slit(s) is what caused the effect. The angled slits causing a narrowing passage and causing the light propagation to bottle neck.


Light does not even travel directly in straight lines either, it behaves like a gas and I can prove and show this to be true by simple experiments. (second thoughts maybe not, but shadows are saying something to me about light, especially when the angles do not reflect light but the shadows have light).

Take a cardboard box with no lid on it. Angle the open part towards the sky away from the Sun, there is no angle to reflect light into the box, but there is still light in the box.












« Last Edit: 12/02/2016 08:36:42 by Thebox »
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #18 on: 12/02/2016 19:28:17 »
Quote from: TheBox
New results are to be questioned yes?
The published paper is here: "Observation of Gravitational Waves from a Binary Black Hole Merger"
https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.061102
It is moderately readable, and you can skip over the couple of formulas that they insert. They describe the conclusions in words.

I strongly suggest that you read it, or you will have no relevant questions or comments to make.

Quote
I have no idea why they are trying to use a laser to detect gravity
They are using the laser to measure distances very accurately - just like all surveyers use today, but a much better laser, and far more powerful.

The gravitational wave distorts lengths, by a factor of 0.00000000000000000001; you need to measure lengths extremely accurately to detect this!

Quote
Why does the gravitation of the tubes or a passing hand not affect the beam but yet from miles away a weak signal altered the beam?
The tubes have a constant effect on the light. This detector ignores constant effects; they focus on oscillations of 20Hz to 2kHz such as would be produced by closely-orbiting black holes or neutron stars.

Your hand might affect one of the beams (but at 1-2Hz, not 20+ Hz). There are two detectors at opposite ends of the USA; your hand might affect one of them, but definitely not both of them. This event was detected at both sites, about 6ms apart, which gives a rough indication of where the event occurred in the sky.

They also surround the gravitational wave detectors with sensitive detectors for earthquakes, cosmic rays, and anything else that they think could affect the results. They saw nothing external that could have produced these results. 
Quote
Take a cardboard box with no lid on it. Angle the open part towards the sky away from the Sun, there is no angle to reflect light into the box, but there is still light in the box.
The box is illuminated by diffuse light from the sky.

Take the box into space, where shadows are much harsher, and things are more black and white; the inside of TheBox will be seen to be dark.
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #19 on: 12/02/2016 21:06:30 »
Quote from: TheBox
New results are to be questioned yes?
The published paper is here: "Observation of Gravitational Waves from a Binary Black Hole Merger"
https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.061102
It is moderately readable, and you can skip over the couple of formulas that they insert. They describe the conclusions in words.

I strongly suggest that you read it, or you will have no relevant questions or comments to make.

Quote
I have no idea why they are trying to use a laser to detect gravity
They are using the laser to measure distances very accurately - just like all surveyers use today, but a much better laser, and far more powerful.

The gravitational wave distorts lengths, by a factor of 0.00000000000000000001; you need to measure lengths extremely accurately to detect this!

Quote
Why does the gravitation of the tubes or a passing hand not affect the beam but yet from miles away a weak signal altered the beam?
The tubes have a constant effect on the light. This detector ignores constant effects; they focus on oscillations of 20Hz to 2kHz such as would be produced by closely-orbiting black holes or neutron stars.

Your hand might affect one of the beams (but at 1-2Hz, not 20+ Hz). There are two detectors at opposite ends of the USA; your hand might affect one of them, but definitely not both of them. This event was detected at both sites, about 6ms apart, which gives a rough indication of where the event occurred in the sky.

They also surround the gravitational wave detectors with sensitive detectors for earthquakes, cosmic rays, and anything else that they think could affect the results. They saw nothing external that could have produced these results. 
Quote
Take a cardboard box with no lid on it. Angle the open part towards the sky away from the Sun, there is no angle to reflect light into the box, but there is still light in the box.
The box is illuminated by diffuse light from the sky.

Take the box into space, where shadows are much harsher, and things are more black and white; the inside of TheBox will be seen to be dark.

Hmmm, what about power fluctuations in the energy input or a surge of the lasers internal components? 
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #20 on: 12/02/2016 21:32:40 »


Hmmm, what about power fluctuations in the energy input or a surge of the lasers internal components?
At two different test facilities, separated by thousands of miles occurring within milliseconds of each other, high unlikely. "There is none so blind as he who will not see."
« Last Edit: 12/02/2016 21:35:06 by Ethos_ »
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #21 on: 12/02/2016 22:33:56 »


Hmmm, what about power fluctuations in the energy input or a surge of the lasers internal components?
At two different test facilities, separated by thousands of miles occurring within milliseconds of each other, high unlikely. "There is none so blind as he who will not see."

Ok, I do hear you, how do we know it was not some other sort of wave, like a shock wave?

Or even something absurd has someone trying to communicate with you?
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #22 on: 12/02/2016 22:35:27 »


Hmmm, what about power fluctuations in the energy input or a surge of the lasers internal components?
At two different test facilities, separated by thousands of miles occurring within milliseconds of each other, high unlikely. "There is none so blind as he who will not see."

Ok, I do hear you, how do we know it was not some other sort of wave, like a shock wave?

We know it was traveling at the speed of light, or precisely equidistant from the detectors...
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #23 on: 12/02/2016 22:42:19 »


Hmmm, what about power fluctuations in the energy input or a surge of the lasers internal components?
At two different test facilities, separated by thousands of miles occurring within milliseconds of each other, high unlikely. "There is none so blind as he who will not see."

Ok, I do hear you, how do we know it was not some other sort of wave, like a shock wave?

We know it was traveling at the speed of light, or precisely equidistant from the detectors...

What do you  mean you know it was travelling at the speed of light?  How do you conceive that when it is not directly observed but a readout?


And how do we know it was not a solar burst, do they not travel at the speed of light ?

EMP?

A software glitch?

The laser beam is massless, things pass through the beam, things dont disrupt the beam, how can anything disrupt the beam?


added - ohhhh............I just thought of something I said

« Last Edit: 12/02/2016 22:55:56 by Thebox »
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #24 on: 13/02/2016 05:25:52 »
Quote from: TheBox
Hmmm, what about power fluctuations in the energy input or a surge of the lasers internal components?

These lasers are managed very closely to prevent unexpected variations in amplitude and frequency. There is actually some intentional variations in power that are used to provide a calibration signal, and also to inject test signals that can verify correct operation of the hardware and software.

One of the changes during the recent sensitivity upgrade was the use of homodyne receivers, which have much less noise than crude detection of the signal amplitude.

I can assure you that an EMP pulse or solar flare would have been noticed by more than just these detectors.

How about you tell us the real reason you don't like black holes? (...instead of just throwing up smokescreens?)
 

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Re: TheBox on black holes
« Reply #24 on: 13/02/2016 05:25:52 »

 

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