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Author Topic: Is cannabis research prohibited ?  (Read 4719 times)

Offline tkadm30

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Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« on: 10/03/2016 21:51:17 »
I would like to know if cannabis research is prohibited in universities ?

The reason I'm asking is because it seems the topic of cannabinoids based
research appears controversial. However, it seem the Internet has deep knowledge on cannabis
science. So can global decriminalization and/or legalization of cannabis promote cannabis research
in universities?

Furthermore, the neuroprotective properties of cannabis need scientific investigation. It seems a good idea to defend this purpose of cannabis as a model for future neuroprotection studies.

Identification of endocannabinoid-mediated synaptic exocytosis may also require further research. How can water/THC react inside neurons during hippocampal neurogenesis?

Are endocannabinoids involved in the processing and integration of conscious experience using the biological non-locality of water as a quantum channel ?


Regards,

tkadm30
 
« Last Edit: 10/03/2016 23:08:00 by tkadm30 »


 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #1 on: 10/03/2016 23:27:06 »
It is possible to do research on cannabis and cannabanoids, but at least in the US, it is very hard to get permission. There are so many different levels of government that has to sign off on the research before it can happen, and many of the agencies involved have agendas or bylaws that prohibit them from allowing any study of non-detrimental aspects of the drug. Cannabis is a Schedule 1 substance, which means it officially has no valid medicinal use (which is so silly), so any study of its medicinal value is likely to face strong criticism from the get go.

Even if one secures the money to do the study, permission to experiment on humans from the ethics review committee, and a license from the DEA to possess and deliver a Schedule 1 substance, you still have to convince the only government-approved source of cannabis for research to actually provide it (this is often the bottle neck.) In addition to severe supply constraints, this program is run by NIDA (the National Institute for Drug Abuse), which has a vested interest in keeping control of the information about cannabis and other substances. I believe that there are researchers suing to the government, and demanding either greater production of cannabis for research, or allowing researchers to grow their own, or purchase from licensed medical or recreational providers (now legal in many states, but not federally recognized).

I think there is a lot of good science that has been held back because of the difficulty of doing this research.
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #2 on: 11/03/2016 05:54:17 »
I understand that the strains of cannabis available from the official US supplier bear little resemblance to the strains available "on the street". This makes it hard to measure the real impacts of consumption.

It also makes it hard to investigate the chemical ingredients separately - cannabis is a chemical soup, with different classes of chemicals having quite different effects.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #3 on: 11/03/2016 10:59:23 »
I understand that the strains of cannabis available from the official US supplier bear little resemblance to the strains available "on the street".

I'm not sure where that notion originated from, but Mahmoud A. ElSohly Ph.D. has been the chief executive of that program for many years.... and as seen on CNN's recent programs on medical marijuana.... he has access to some of the highest percentages of THC and/or CBD currently available.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #4 on: 11/03/2016 11:53:22 »
It also makes it hard to investigate the chemical ingredients separately - cannabis is a chemical soup

Having seen some of Dr. ElSohly's world-renowned chromatography/mass spectrometry skills, I'm sure he could easily deconstruct every relative chemical in marijuana - if he hasn't already.
 

Offline tkadm30

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #5 on: 04/05/2016 11:06:09 »
The global legalization of cannabis will harmonize public research into the science of medical cannabis. People suffering neurological disabilities and trauma victims (PTSD) should have easy access to the drug. Cannabis science may design new cannabinoid based medicines for neuroprotection purpose, alzheimer, autism, and epilepsy. Experimental endocannabinoid research may develop new models for Parkinson-like treatment and schizophrenia. I think the global legalization of cannabis is a major change toward a healthier and pragmatic medical philosophy!

https://www.rt.com/news/341745-medical-marijuana-germany-legalization/
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #6 on: 04/05/2016 12:28:40 »
Quote from: tkadm30
The global legalization of cannabis
I am in favor of easing the release of cannabis for placebo-controlled medical trials.

I am also in favor of releasing cannabis for cancer patients suffering severe weight loss - the cannabis-induced "munchies" might help with weight loss, and the soporific effects might help with the the stresses of treatment.

But "The global legalization of cannabis" must be taken with a big grain of salt:
  • I don't know about you, but I don't want my airline pilot smoking cannabis just before takeoff.
  • I don't want the vehicle drivers with whom I share the road every day smoking pot
  • Routine testing of pilots, drivers, machine operators and office workers for cannabis intake will need to be globally legalized
  • Smoking should be banned as a delivery mechanism, because it  harms the lungs of the smoker (and anyone nearby)
  • Use in alzheimers, autism and epilepsy should be permitted after efficacy and safety are demonstrated in a placebo-controlled trial
  • In particular, the alleged link between marijuana use and psychotic symptoms must be ruled out before general legalization.

In the end, it's a cost/benefit analysis. IMHO, making it impossible to run proper trials is counterproductive, because you will be forever ignorant of the costs and the benefits. But an ignorant "global legalization" is even more counterproductive. I expect that there is some happy medium in there, somewhere!
« Last Edit: 04/05/2016 12:31:41 by evan_au »
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #7 on: 04/05/2016 15:24:48 »
We have conflated a few issues here...

1) Medical cannabis.
I am a firm believer that easing the restrictions on research and commercialization of medically oriented cannabis products will improve the overall well-being of all who have access to it. The science is there. There is no sense to claiming that it has no recognized medical use and therefore cannot be studied further for its potential medical benefits (as the US DEA maintains as policy currently).

2) Decriminalization of cannabis use.
The current war on drugs is a total failure (at least within the US). Each year, hundreds of thousands of people (in the US alone) are arrested for marijuana-related crimes (mostly possession). Of these, a few thousand enter the prison system, some for 20+ year sentences for nonviolent crimes. The rest are dumped back onto the streets with convictions that bar them from voting, living in subsidized housing, getting student loans, and limiting their ability to find gainful employment, as well as opening them to the possibility of losing custody of their children. And yet, drug use is at an all time high. Billions upon billions of dollars spent, millions of lives disrupted, and no measurable gain to society indicates to me that a different strategy must be taken (and not just for cannabis...)

3) Legalization of cannabis for recreational use.
Most plans to legalize recreational cannabis use in the US are similar to the structure of alcohol legalization. Recall Evan, that there is a difference between legal and controlled. Legal cannabis should still be a controlled substance, just as tobacco, alcohol and ephedrine are: with purchasing and possession limits based on age, licensing required for manufacture and distribution, DUI laws (for pilots too) and taxes to offset the medical and societal costs that might be incurred by longterm use.

It is my personal opinion that cannabis should be legalized for recreational use while most other drugs should be decriminalized, and addiction treated as a medical condition.

We should also not shy away from the potential of cannabis as well as other drugs (especially psychedelics like LSD MDMA and psilocybin) as medical treatments. I don't necessarily want people wandering around while out of their minds on psilocybin, but there are some studies that show significant promise (of its use in controlled settings) in the treatment of addiction, depression and PTSD. We shouldn't prevent that research from entering clinical phases. (I am happy to provide links to some of these articles, if you cannot find them yourselves)
 

Offline tkadm30

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #8 on: 04/05/2016 21:36:00 »

In particular, the alleged link between marijuana use and psychotic symptoms must be ruled out before general legalization.

Cannabis is an antipsychotic. CBD based therapy can attenuate psychotic symptoms and "schizophrenia". This seems like the usual wikipedia pseudoscience voodoo. Psychotic symptoms are not caused by cannabis as far I know.
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #9 on: 05/05/2016 02:08:45 »

In particular, the alleged link between marijuana use and psychotic symptoms must be ruled out before general legalization.

Cannabis is an antipsychotic. CBD based therapy can attenuate psychotic symptoms and "schizophrenia". This seems like the usual wikipedia pseudoscience voodoo. Psychotic symptoms are not caused by cannabis as far I know.

THC can cause psychotic episodes, but CBD prevents it in most strains of cannabis. There are some varieties that have a drastic imbalance that have been linked to psychosis.

There was a recent study at Yale in which subjects who were already self-identified heavy users of cannabis were given doses of 100% THC intravenously (read about it here: http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(15)00269-3/abstract) The subjects appeared to have psychotic episodes and/or panic attacks.

The same researchers did a follow-up study showing the effects of CBD on THC-induced psychosis, but it hasn't been published yet so I don't want to spill the beans (I know one of the researchers, so I know what their results ultimately were--you all will just have to wait until it comes out!)
 

Offline tkadm30

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #10 on: 05/05/2016 12:14:11 »
There was a recent study at Yale in which subjects who were already self-identified heavy users of cannabis were given doses of 100% THC intravenously (read about it here: http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(15)00269-3/abstract) The subjects appeared to have psychotic episodes and/or panic attacks.

Schizophrenia is not induced by cannabis. Although pure THC (100%) can induce neural noise, but regular THC concentration (15%) by itself doesn't trigger psychosis. See: http://www.schres-journal.com/article/S0920-9964%2813%2900610-5/abstract

« Last Edit: 05/05/2016 12:54:38 by tkadm30 »
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #11 on: 05/05/2016 13:32:57 »
There was a recent study at Yale in which subjects who were already self-identified heavy users of cannabis were given doses of 100% THC intravenously (read about it here: http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(15)00269-3/abstract) The subjects appeared to have psychotic episodes and/or panic attacks.

Schizophrenia is not induced by cannabis. Although pure THC (100%) can induce neural noise, but regular THC concentration (15%) by itself doesn't trigger psychosis. See: http://www.schres-journal.com/article/S0920-9964%2813%2900610-5/abstract

That is correct. As far as I know, drug-induced psychosis is temporary, and subsides as the drug is metabolized and/or excreted. I am unaware of any reliable study showing otherwise. Studies that have indicated a correlation between adolescent cannabis use and schizophrenia have not demonstrated any causal link, and it is quite likely the causality goes the other way: those at risk of developing schizophrenia being more likely to smoke marijuana at a younger age...
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #12 on: 07/05/2016 00:19:46 »
Quote from: tkadm30
link=topic=66098.msg486789#msg486789 date=1462446851
Schizophrenia is not induced by cannabis.

Schizophrenia and THC-mediated acute psychotic episodes are two separate entities altogether.


THC concentration (15%) by itself doesn't trigger psychosis.

That would depend entirely on the dose, the method of application, interindividual variables ect.
« Last Edit: 07/05/2016 01:08:41 by exothermic »
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #13 on: 07/05/2016 00:35:16 »
But "The global legalization of cannabis" must be taken with a big grain of salt:

    I don't know about you, but I don't want my airline pilot smoking cannabis just before takeoff.
    I don't want the vehicle drivers with whom I share the road every day smoking pot
    Routine testing of pilots, drivers, machine operators and office workers for cannabis intake will need to be globally legalized

Not a problem, surely? Alcohol is freely available and widely consumed, but whilst there are a few incidents every day of alcohol-related accidents, they constitute a tiny fraction of the number of habitual users, and nobody has suggested the necessity for routine testing - common sense, peer pressure and the law all combine to moderate the harm. If cannabis were decriminalised I'm pretty sure its use would settle down to a minority sport and users would learn when not to drive or operate heavy machinery.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #14 on: 07/05/2016 01:04:42 »
but CBD prevents it in most strains of cannabis.

The anti-psychotic properties of CBD are irrespective of the strain.


There are some varieties that have a drastic imbalance that have been linked to psychosis.

The strain is essentially irrelevant. Any incidence of THC-induced psychosis will be contingent on:

1. Dose

2. Route of administration

3. Chronic vs acute intake

 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #15 on: 07/05/2016 01:34:05 »
Quote
The same researchers did a follow-up study showing the effects of CBD on THC-induced psychosis, but it hasn't been published yet so I don't want to spill the beans

This was already done circa 2006. CBD-admin counters THC-mediated psychotic episodes and diminishes the observed effects of THC as a whole.
 

Offline tkadm30

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #16 on: 07/05/2016 11:54:57 »
Schizophrenia and THC-mediated acute psychotic episodes are two separate entities altogether.

I believe oral THC administration (15%) may not induce cannabis-mediated psychosis: Pure THC (100%), intravenous, is far more likely to induce psychotic symptoms and panic episodes!

Schizophrenia is a man-made disorder to promote psychiatry as a modern science. It's a fabricated lie designed to make you believe that cannabis is causing psychosis (schizophrenia) or paranoia: I agree that THC-mediated acute psychotic episodes are different disorders than drug-induced schizophrenia.

 
 
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #17 on: 07/05/2016 13:28:46 »
I believe oral THC administration (15%) may not induce cannabis-mediated psychosis:

Yes.... except it's not cannabis that can induce psychosis.... it's THC.


Pure THC (100%), intravenous, is far more likely to induce psychotic symptoms and panic episodes!

Precisely.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #18 on: 07/05/2016 13:39:46 »
Schizophrenia is a man-made disorder to promote psychiatry as a modern science. It's a fabricated lie designed to make you believe that cannabis is causing psychosis (schizophrenia) or paranoia

rofl.... So explain the mutation of the NR2A & NR2B genes in schizophrenic subjects?
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #19 on: 07/05/2016 13:46:46 »
 

Offline tkadm30

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #20 on: 07/05/2016 19:30:14 »
rofl.... So explain the mutation of the NR2A & NR2B genes in schizophrenic subjects?
Not every schizophrenic may have this. There's no evidences from which drug-induced schizophrenia could be associated to this mutation.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #21 on: 08/05/2016 01:02:44 »
Not every schizophrenic may have this.

I thought schizophrenia was a "man-made disorder"????
 

Offline tkadm30

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #22 on: 08/05/2016 11:21:33 »
I thought schizophrenia was a "man-made disorder"????

That's precisely why schizophrenia is not a typical mental disorder. Drug-induced psychosis can be caused by many chemicals. Dopamine partial agonism may induce psychotic symptoms, parkinson, etc.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #23 on: 08/05/2016 15:21:28 »
To return to the original question, I'm quite sure that if a "reputable" company patented a synthetic cannabinoid and offered it for clinical trial, it would be accepted (with any longterm side-effects duly noted on the packet) and copied by everyone else.

But you can't patent a natural compound, so there's very little room for those companies who pay the MHRA. FDA, EU and so forth to protect their interests, to make a significant profit from herbal remedies, so any that have an intoxicant effect, or proven pharmaceutical value, are banned by law.
« Last Edit: 08/05/2016 15:31:20 by alancalverd »
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #24 on: 08/05/2016 16:15:46 »
That's precisely why schizophrenia is not a typical mental disorder.

You previously said schizophrenia was "man-made".... now you just stated it's a disorder. Make up your mind.


Drug-induced psychosis can be caused by many chemicals.

Do you understand the difference between a pathogenic psychological disorder vs acute psychosis? Implying that schizophrenia is not a real mental disorder is just ignorant
 

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Re: Is cannabis research prohibited ?
« Reply #24 on: 08/05/2016 16:15:46 »

 

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