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Author Topic: What would be the implications of the Graviton having a non zero mass  (Read 1264 times)

Offline syhprum

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If the Graviton has a non zero mass its range is no longer infinite but how much is its range limited if it has a mass close to the maximum established by the LIGO results.


 

Offline Atomic-S

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If the graviton has mass, then it presumably can generate its own gravity. Thus, gravity would create gravity.  This might require a significant rethinking of physics.
 

Online jeffreyH

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Then it would be very much like the gluon. Since the strong force is short range and confining this seems unlikely.
 

Offline Thebox

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If the Graviton has a non zero mass its range is no longer infinite but how much is its range limited if it has a mass close to the maximum established by the LIGO results.


People seem to ask a lot of questions about ''Harry Potter'' on this forum.   You know the Graviton is not real or a real thing, it is a word and an idea somebody made up.  So in answer to your question, you are asking the implications of if something made up can affect something made up......scratches head. 



 

Offline syhprum

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Could we get some idea by comparing the strength of the nuclear force to that of gravity and the distance over which it operates ?.
 

Offline Thebox

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Could we get some idea by comparing the strength of the nuclear force to that of gravity and the distance over which it operates ?.

Nuclear force / d   sounds more realistic imo


 

Online jeffreyH

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Could we get some idea by comparing the strength of the nuclear force to that of gravity and the distance over which it operates ?.

In extreme conditions such as found near a black hole you should be able to do a comparison so it is unlikely to be observed up close any time soon. All the forces may become one within the confines of the horizon but they will not all join together at once. I can't remember what the sequence should be but it is the reverse of the separation after the big bang. The trick is finding some way to make these comparisons on a macroscopic scale. The only way I can see that happening is via an accumulation of observational data on gravitational waves. That can be done.
 

Offline Bill S

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Quote from: Atomis-S
If the graviton has mass, then it presumably can generate its own gravity. Thus, gravity would create gravity.  This might require a significant rethinking of physics.

Gravity contains energy, so via mass/energy equivalence, already creates gravity, according to some scientists.

http://www.einstein-online.info/spotlights/gravity_of_gravity

The important thing to remember is that mass and energy are not created.

 If M is the original mass/energy that creates gravity,
And G is the gravity (curvature) created by M,
Then, although G carries energy, the total mass/energy of M + G cannot be greater than the original mass/energy of M.

We might continue this line of thought by saying that the energy in G gives rise to more gravity (G2), but the total still remains the same: the mass/energy of M + G1 + G2 cannot be greater than the mass/energy of M.

The same reasoning must apply in the unlikely event that the graviton has mass.
 

Online jeffreyH

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This can be expressed as M0 = M1 + G1 + G2. Therefore M1 < M0. Eventually all mass in this situation ends up as separate gravitational mass. The original inertial mass therefore diminishes over time. This seems like a good argument against gravity begetting gravity.
 

Offline Bill S

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Quote from: Jeffrey
This seems like a good argument against gravity begetting gravity.

Absolutely.  I suspect that saying that gravity begets gravity is only a sloppy way of saying that the math describing gravity is non-linear.

How's that for a non mathematician?  :)
 

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