The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Is orbit planetary orbit in some way related to this diagram?  (Read 1219 times)

Offline Thebox

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3153
  • Thanked: 44 times
    • View Profile


 

Offline evan_au

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4096
  • Thanked: 244 times
    • View Profile
Planetary orbits are quite well understood by scientists (at least in the short term).

These explanations are also available to non-scientists, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler%27s_laws_of_planetary_motion

You drew the mystical diagram; you tell us how it relates to planetary orbits.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4698
  • Thanked: 153 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
To a first order approximation, orbits are ellipses with the sun at one focus. 
 

Offline evan_au

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4096
  • Thanked: 244 times
    • View Profile
Quote from: TheBox
Is planetary orbit in some way related to this diagram?
Planetary orbits are primarily determined by the attraction of gravity. But the diagram appears to show both attraction and repulsion. So this diagram is not about planetary orbits (...unless it is showing some balance between gravitational attraction & centrifugal force??).

The mass of the Sun or a planet can be considered to reside at the center of the mass. Rotation of the body changes the shape a little, but not enough to diverge from an elliptical orbit. This diagram shows something that looks like rotation of the planet. Rotation of the planet will not significantly affect the elliptical orbit, so I suggest that this diagram is not about planetary orbits.

Those are my guesses, in the absence of any input from the author about the significance of the mysteriously random arrows and +ve/-ve legends. 
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4698
  • Thanked: 153 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Or, to answer the question directly, no.
 

Online jeffreyH

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3911
  • Thanked: 52 times
  • The graviton sucks
    • View Profile
When you actually look into the story of Kepler and how he came to determine his 3 laws of planetary motion you find collaborations via correspondence in a similar way in which scientists operate today. It wasn't simply a one man operation. Kepler required the observations of Tycho Brahe which had been gathered over the years. These observations where the 17th century equivalent of a spreadsheet since they were in tabular form. Kepler corresponded with Thomas Harriot in England. On one of the pages of Harriots notebooks is drawn the path of the orbit of a comet via Harriot's own observations. So please Thebox have some respect for those who strove so hard to give us the knowledge we take for granted on the world wide web. Go read a physics book.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 173
  • Thanked: 14 times
    • View Profile

I guess you mean something to do with Doppler effect on sunrise and sunset?
 

Offline Thebox

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3153
  • Thanked: 44 times
    • View Profile

I guess you mean something to do with Doppler effect on sunrise and sunset?

You guessed correctly, so therefore there must be some science in it.   I relate the diagram to this



I relate electron spin, etc to this,,


In title I would call it , the electrodynamic magnus effect of orbits.


Added- I looked at my diagram, then I consider what is involved,


force

light

gravity

direction

solar winds

effect

« Last Edit: 04/04/2016 11:53:20 by Thebox »
 

Offline evan_au

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4096
  • Thanked: 244 times
    • View Profile
Congratulations, Hamdani, you win the guessing competition!

As for the Magnus effect causing the Earth's orbit to bend (instead of gravity)...
the Solar wind travels outwards from the Sun at around 400-750km/s. Next to this, Earth's paltry rotational velocity of 0.5km/s at the equator has almost no effect.
The planet Mercury manages to stay in orbit, even though it has almost no spin around its axis (Mercury's day takes 1.5 of its years).
The Solar wind at Earth's orbit is a pretty thorough vacuum, exerting a pressure measured in nanoPascals.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_wind#Components_and_speed   

As for the Doppler effect causing the Earth's orbit to bend (instead of gravity)...
The maximum velocity is 0.5km/s at the equator, or 0.00017% of the speed of light. This is a very small fraction of the momentum of photons emitted from the Earth!


You will have to try a lot harder than that to disprove Newton & Kepler!
- Earth's gravity is holding you in your seat - and holding in the atmosphere, and the Moon in its orbit.
- The gravitational field of the Sun and each of the planets (+larger moons & asteroids) is holding them in a spherical shape.
- Similarly, the Sun's gravitational field is holding the Planets in orbit.

Corrected: mixup of m/s & km/s & c
« Last Edit: 04/04/2016 13:28:49 by evan_au »
 

Offline Thebox

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3153
  • Thanked: 44 times
    • View Profile



You will have to try a lot harder than that to disprove Newton & Kepler!
-

I wasn't trying to prove or disprove anything, I was asking if there was any relationship and wanting to discuss the diagram.   If we look at a rotating body and consider an equator  point, at one moment the point is moving away from us and at another moment the point is moving towards us.   




In relationship to light, the point moving away stretches the light and in relationship to the point travelling towards us , it compresses the light.   I also thought there may be some relationship to how electron spin works and quantum entanglement.     
Gravity is without doubt an attracting force, so in the diagram the left of the body is being attracted towards the sun travelling in that direction, where the right side is moving away from the sun effectively travelling away from gravity.    I have a notion that the direction of spin is something to do with polarity, one direction being a positive and the opposite being a negative.





I am not sure what I am getting at to be honest and was hoping you could share more light on this with your thinking and knowledge?


I also have  a notion that the universe is spinning both ways at the same time.......a sort of simultaneous  ''centrifugal and centripetal flow''.






 

The Naked Scientists Forum


 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums