# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: What is a vacuum?  (Read 1917 times)

#### Thebox

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##### What is a vacuum?
« on: 14/05/2016 11:34:52 »

Hello, forgive the crude title to the topic, I have a question but I don't know at this time what the question is.

I have been considering a vacuum and how a vacuum is made/formed.   If we took a container and extracted the atmosphere contained within the container, then sealed the container creating a vacuum, then the ''sides'' of the container always want to contact to a center point of the interior of the container, so although in the center of my container there is nothing but a 0 point space, the ''sides'' are being ''attracted'' to the center of space of the interior.

???????????????????????????????

Please discuss or correct if in error of logic

Edit: Corrected an error of title - mod.
« Last Edit: 14/05/2016 23:51:13 by evan_au »

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: What does this mean?
« Reply #1 on: 14/05/2016 13:12:00 »
the ''sides'' are being ''attracted'' to the center of space of the interior.

Or, as the policeman said, "The accused viciously attacked my boot with his face." Until now, the courts have rejected this explanation, and you would be wise to reconsider your self-styled logic.

#### Tim the Plumber

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##### Re: What does this mean?
« Reply #2 on: 14/05/2016 14:53:57 »
The sides are not attracted to the centre.

Picture the vessel it's self in a vacume. Floating around in space or something. No force pushing inward.

The pressure of the air on the outside of the vessel is what is creating the force.

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: What does this mean?
« Reply #3 on: 14/05/2016 16:29:02 »
The pressure of the air on the outside of the vessel is what is creating the force.
Full marks for trying, but discussion is futile!

#### Thebox

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##### Re: What does this mean?
« Reply #4 on: 15/05/2016 08:06:01 »
The pressure of the air on the outside of the vessel is what is creating the force.
Full marks for trying, but discussion is futile!

There is no question , there is no theory or hypothesis, there is also no air mentioned in my diagram or post. Maybe I am considering black holes or some other form of space flux, does nobody on here know how to have a discussion about something?

Have science lost the hypothetical method?

Let me add a question, what would happen to a pop  bottle in space if we extracted the ''stuff'' that was in the interior of the bottle?

I blow into a balloon it inflates, I ''suck'' on a balloon it deflates, does a balloon in space allow the air to leave the balloon if the ''end'' is untied?

The air inside the balloon will heat and expand the balloon while ''tied'' ?

The balloon in space will expand by a greater entropy gain of energy and the rule of thermodynamics and then ''big bang''?

« Last Edit: 15/05/2016 08:25:44 by Thebox »

#### arcmetal

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##### Re: What does this mean?
« Reply #5 on: 15/05/2016 15:22:19 »
I think I'll try...

The pressure of the air on the outside of the vessel is what is creating the force.
Full marks for trying, but discussion is futile!

There is no question , there is no theory or hypothesis, there is also no air mentioned in my diagram or post. Maybe I am considering black holes or some other form of space flux, does nobody on here know how to have a discussion about something?
You mention that the container has "atmosphere", and on this planet the atmosphere is "air".  We can only guess if you had meant some other gas, or plasma, or I wouldn't know...  I think you'd need to rephrase, maybe with more specific details, the question so that we can understand what you meant.

Have science lost the hypothetical method?
Sometimes yes, I think so, but I continue to hope not.

Let me add a question, what would happen to a pop  bottle in space if we extracted the ''stuff'' that was in the interior of the bottle?
There wouldn't be much of a need to "extract" the stuff from inside of a bottle in outer-space (if that's the space you mean) since it would evacuate itself.  Not much would happen to the empty bottle in space since its pressure on the inside of the bottle would be the same as the pressure on the outside of the bottle, at least until it hits something or it gets hit by some intense light or heat, or gravitational field, etc.  It would be equivalent to a small floating asteroid.

I blow into a balloon it inflates, I ''suck'' on a balloon it deflates, does a balloon in space allow the air to leave the balloon if the ''end'' is untied?
Yes, the air inside of a balloon in space would escape into space if the balloon's end is untied.

The air inside the balloon will heat and expand the balloon while ''tied'' ?
If you started with a balloon inflated with air and tied at off, and if you quickly throw it out of some space station into outer space it would expand to a bigger size in the outer space of vacuum.  It would continue to expand until an equilibrium is reached between the forces of difference in pressure between the inside/outside of the balloon and the forces of balloon's material holding it together.  If the rubber of the balloon isn't strong enough it will pop, otherwise it will survive intact until something else hits it.

The balloon in space will expand by a greater entropy gain of energy and the rule of thermodynamics and then ''big bang''?

The balloon's entropy will change in the direction of the lowest possible energy state, that is, until it reaches that lowest possible energy state.... like I mentioned just now, if its strong enough it won't pop, and just float about with its air intact until something else hits it, or if its not strong enough it will pop loosing its air and its skin just floating in pieces. After that it has reached its lowest energy state, no more change in its entropy until it hits something else.

#### Arthur Geddes

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##### Re: What is a vacuum?
« Reply #6 on: 15/05/2016 16:21:46 »
There is no question , there is no theory or hypothesis, there is also no air mentioned in my diagram or post.

From original post:
If we took a container and extracted the atmosphere

Is this sight actually affiliated with the University of Cambridge?  Thebox has a tendency to misrepresent facts; that's fine but, the phenomenology of consciousness is off limits?

I question the motives of most contributors here; a divide & conquer dynamic is the result of this noise.  Truth compels music; literally & figuratively.

#### Tim the Plumber

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##### Re: What is a vacuum?
« Reply #7 on: 15/05/2016 16:39:39 »
There is no question , there is no theory or hypothesis, there is also no air mentioned in my diagram or post.

From original post:
If we took a container and extracted the atmosphere

Is this sight actually affiliated with the University of Cambridge?  Thebox has a tendency to misrepresent facts; that's fine but, the phenomenology of consciousness is off limits?

I question the motives of most contributors here; a divide & conquer dynamic is the result of this noise.  Truth compels music; literally & figuratively.

I have previously made suggestions that either the mad should be barred from a serrious science forum or that people, myself included should be corralled into appropriate sections. Maybe the clever types could post as normal with the lesser knowing ones religated to the side margin where we could ask questions but not get to the central flow of science discussion.

Obviously this would have to be done by section. And a quiz test would screen us all.

#### jeffreyH

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##### Re: What is a vacuum?
« Reply #8 on: 15/05/2016 21:00:25 »
I would fight to preserve anyone's right to post to any thread as long as they understand the rules and that discussion of non mainstream topics may be moved. What I would not defend is rude, abusive or threatening behaviour.

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: What is a vacuum?
« Reply #9 on: 15/05/2016 23:02:28 »
Is this sight actually affiliated with the University of Cambridge?

The forum is part of this education programme, but is open to anyone who wishes to ask a question or give an answer or an opinion.
The objective of the forum is to promote discussion and anyone who agrees to and abides by the acceptable usage policy is welcome.

#### Thebox

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##### Re: What is a vacuum?
« Reply #10 on: 16/05/2016 06:40:51 »
Can I ask the mods to delete this post from new theories as it is clearly not any sort of theory, it was clearly questions about pressure which  arcmetal was able to  answer

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Re: What is a vacuum?
« Reply #10 on: 16/05/2016 06:40:51 »