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Author Topic: What is the probability of the ''big bang'' is correct?  (Read 2486 times)

Offline agyejy

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Re: What is the probability of the ''big bang'' is correct?
« Reply #25 on: 24/05/2016 04:34:43 »
'tis OK, don't fess yer'self!

I prefer my explanations from the likes of Einstein, Lorentz, Planck, Hawking, Smolin, Penrose, Susskind, the list goes on and on...

I daresay you would have a job on your hands bettering them, don't you think?

I'm not the one claiming that all the work that has been based on their work (and by extension their work as well) is wrong thereby claiming mental superiority to the entirety of the scientific community both past and present.

Oh and any of those people would tell you that the popular explanations of physics given by them and many others does not constitute and education in physics and does not give you the necessary knowledge to actively denounce peer reviewed science. You might as well be arguing that all epidemiologists are idiots and that disease is totally caused by imbalanced humours.
 

Offline timey

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Re: What is the probability of the ''big bang'' is correct?
« Reply #26 on: 24/05/2016 04:59:55 »
Listen whelp, (she growled)...

Firstly, any one of those authors of popular science mentioned clearly states that their books are presented with both the layman and the physicists requirements in mind.  All maths are explained and experiments, theories cited in the index.

Secondly, if you think that I'm the one claiming that all the work based on the theories of these great named geniuses of the past is wrong, then you either have not read, or have not understood my theory.

I did not come here to comment on your ability to understand or not understand anything, just to state fact.

I can guarantee you that any one of the people mentioned (given that some of them were still alive) would agree with my assessment in my first post here (that you objected to) of current theory, although I could not guarantee (chuckle) that they would agree with my proposed alternative.

They would certainly be more qualified to comment than you though...
 

Offline agyejy

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Re: What is the probability of the ''big bang'' is correct?
« Reply #27 on: 24/05/2016 05:14:54 »
Listen whelp, (she growled)...

Firstly, any one of those authors of popular science mentioned clearly states that their books are presented with both the layman and the physicists requirements in mind.  All maths are explained and experiments, theories cited in the index.

And yet still not a replacement for an actual education at an actual accredited degree granting institution. Otherwise why would anyone bother getting a degree?

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Secondly, if you think that I'm the one claiming that all the work based on the theories of these great named geniuses of the past is wrong, then you either have not read, or have not understood my theory.

You dispute the validity of established peer reviewed science. Therefore you claim the work of all the scientists that lead to and build from that science is wrong. It literally has nothing to do with any pet theory you have and everything to do with your claims about the current state of science.

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I did not come here to comment on your ability to understand or not understand anything, just to state fact.

I've yet to see you do any such thing.

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I can guarantee you that any one of the people mentioned (given that some of them were still alive) would agree with my assessment in my first post here (that you objected to) of current theory, although I could not guarantee (chuckle) that they would agree with my proposed alternative.

They would certainly be more qualified to comment than you though...

Yeah well I can guarantee that Louis the 14th, King Arthur, Alexander the Great, Caesar, Napoleon, Socrates, Plato, and the current Dalai Lama all think I'm an awesome human worth listening to and respecting. Wow it super easy to make up meaningless guarantees that have absolutely no chance of being tested and the best part is since no one can actually put them to the test I automatically win.  ::)
 

Offline McQueen

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Re: What is the probability of the ''big bang'' is correct?
« Reply #28 on: 24/05/2016 05:45:08 »
Quote from: stacyjones
The big bang is incorrect. We are in the outflow associated with a universal black hole.
Please don't take the way that I phrase my question as an insult.

Given what I just said: Why should anybody except what you just said as valid? And by valid I mean a theory that is on solid grounds, can explain all the data collected over the last century, is logically sound and there is a good reason to accept that theory over the Big Bang Theory?

Pete

Typo here it should be 'accept' not 'except'.
 

Offline McQueen

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Re: What is the probability of the ''big bang'' is correct?
« Reply #29 on: 24/05/2016 05:55:05 »
Apparently you've never actually bothered to learn the history of Hubble's Law or you failed to understand it. To put it briefly Hubble used a known and verified means of measuring distances to cosmological objects (the standard candle method) and noticed that there was a correlation between the distances he calculated using that method and the velocities (redshifts) observed.

If you could go out into deep space  and place the 'standard candle' at cosmological distances is person, I think you would have a better idea of what you are talking about, instead of making derogatory  "comments" like "you've never actually bothered to learn the history of Hubble's Law.... etc" You have less imagination than a log of wood!
 

Offline timey

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Re: What is the probability of the ''big bang'' is correct?
« Reply #30 on: 24/05/2016 05:56:22 »
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I did not come here to comment on your ability to understand or not understand anything, just to state fact.

I've yet to see you do any such thing

To say so, all of the people I have mentioned have all proposed that General Relativity and the Big Bang theory in its present form may not be right, along with most of the 'intelligent' physics community.

If you wish to argue against them, do so, but the probability that the Big Bang theory in its present form is the correct theory 'is' indeed questionable.
Thanks for a really 'pleasant' discussion, I've had sooo much fun, (not).  Why do they bother?  I'm out of here!
 

Offline agyejy

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Re: What is the probability of the ''big bang'' is correct?
« Reply #31 on: 24/05/2016 06:08:36 »
If you could go out into deep space  and place the 'standard candle' at cosmological distances is person, I think you would have a better idea of what you are talking about, instead of making derogatory  "comments" like "you've never actually bothered to learn the history of Hubble's Law.... etc" You have less imagination than a log of wood!

And someone else that doesn't seem willing or able to actually read any supporting evidence. That or is simply unable to understand the very simple explanation about how standard candles are rigorously calibrated using examples that are close enough that we can measure the distances involved directly before they are ever used to measure the much larger distances.

Being ignorant of something is not in anyway derogatory as long as that ignorance is accidental. There is no excuse for being willfully ignorant especially when someone takes the time to do the research for you. Choosing to remain ignorant in the face of empirical evidence is something completely different than simply not knowing something. It is even worse if you're attempting to discuss a subject and you clearly haven't actually bothered to properly learn about the current state of knowledge pertaining to that subject.

To say so, all of the people I have mentioned have all proposed that General Relativity and the Big Bang theory in its present form may not be right, along with most of the 'intelligent' physics community.

If you wish to argue against them, do so, but the probability that the Big Bang theory in its present form is the correct theory 'is' indeed questionable.
Thanks for a really 'pleasant' discussion, I've had sooo much fun, (not).  Why do they bother?

There is a big difference between "not entirely correct in its present form" and "everything we think we know about the universe is wrong". (Not actual quotes just paraphrases.) Of course why bother with subtleties like that when it is so much more fun to interpret everything as absolutes.

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I'm out of here!

I suspect you'll actually want to have the last word so that you won't actually stop replying. I would be pleasantly surprised if you did though. I will be the first person to admit that I am fallible and capable of being wrong.
 

Offline Colin2B

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Re: What is the probability of the ''big bang'' is correct?
« Reply #32 on: 24/05/2016 13:50:07 »
Being ignorant of something is not in anyway derogatory as long as that ignorance is accidental. There is no excuse for being willfully ignorant especially when someone takes the time to do the research for you. Choosing to remain ignorant in the face of empirical evidence is something completely different than simply not knowing something. It is even worse if you're attempting to discuss a subject and you clearly haven't actually bothered to properly learn about the current state of knowledge pertaining to that subject.
Seems to be a common trait among pseudoscientists. They will then accuse those who do know of being wrong.
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: What is the probability of the ''big bang'' is correct?
« Reply #33 on: 24/05/2016 18:21:19 »


Anybody who knows anything about math can tell you that question is meaningless.

These are the results of refusing to learn math and physics the right way. I.e. people ask insane questions. In cases like this there really are dumb questions.


Anybody who knows anything will tell you that insane questions are only insane questions to a person, if the person  reading the question does  not really understand the subject and question.   Therefore the ''dumb'' question is only dumb to the listener because the listener truly does not understand the subject and question, then of course the subject of refusing to learn, something you do very often.
So the dumb question is not really a dumb question, I didn't invent from my imagination the ''prequel''.
Probability is another term for chance, I will re-phrase for you personally.
What is the chance of the ''big bang'' is correct?
I will even give you options.

a)no chance
b)100% chance
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: What is the probability of the ''big bang'' is correct?
« Reply #34 on: 27/05/2016 02:53:36 »
Quote from: arcmetal
uugh, actually I have come across quite a bit of observations ...
Please state what these observations are.

Quote from: arcmetal
..that show that there is no "expansion" of the universe, and therefore no big bang.
Sorry but no such observations exist. The expansion of the universe is on solid ground.

Quote from: arcmetal
No one has ever measured, or observed the expansion of space.
That is incorrect. The expansion of space is observed when the effects of the expansion are observed. The nature of the distribution of galaxies and their cosmological redshift are all consistent with the expansion of the universe.

Quote from: arcmetal
The expansion of the universe is a conclusion,..
Of course[ its a conclusion. All of our scientific knowledge is based on conclusions.

The explanation of the expansion of the universe from cosmological redshift is not as easy to understand as you might think.
 In fact it's not something that's readily understood by the layman. If that was the case with everything in physics then nobody would have to obtain such a rigid education in math and physics to understand it all. It's not as simply as you'd like it to be. However it you were to actually take the time and read an entire text on cosmology, or that part of a text on GR which contains cosmology, then you'd be able to understand it.

Please read Philosophy and Logic of Physical Theory by Fritz Rorchlich. It will give you a solid grasp of the philosophy of physics. It's on my website at: http://www.newenglandphysics.org/other/philosophy_of_physics.pdf
« Last Edit: 27/05/2016 03:15:32 by PmbPhy »
 

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Re: What is the probability of the ''big bang'' is correct?
« Reply #34 on: 27/05/2016 02:53:36 »

 

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