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Author Topic: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?  (Read 3821 times)

Offline thedoc

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Peter A. Blacksberg  asked the Naked Scientists:
   http://www.molecularhydrogenfoundation.org/frequent-qa/
Dear critical thinking believers in science. Naked or / not.  People are making claims about "hydrogen infused water" as a cure all.  We believe the only cure is in the pockets of the purveyors of the products.
Please debunk this for the unsuspecting public.
With respect and admiration.
Peter




 
What do you think?
« Last Edit: 08/06/2016 12:50:02 by _system »


 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #1 on: 08/06/2016 16:08:45 »
Quote
Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?

When you consider the proclaimed mechanism of action for "hydrogen-infused water",  you'll see that the entire concept is contingent on it's antioxidant capacity -- of which is not even remotely comparable to other antioxidant supplements.

Also note, any of these companies selling hydrogen water are likely using en vitro and/or rodent model-based research to support their claims. The animal diets used in these experiments are completely devoid of antioxidants for an extended period of time, then they introduce the hydrogen water to remediate the antioxidant deficit.

So bottom line, if drinking was the only way to get my antioxidants..... I'd buy orange juice.

~

 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #2 on: 08/06/2016 16:49:36 »
Utter, barefaced bullshit. But what do I know? I'm only a medical physicist, not an advertising copywriter.
 

Offline eeyore

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #3 on: 08/06/2016 23:10:19 »
Those of us who do actual medicine upon actual patients are well aware of the importance of belief in any therapeutic modality.

For example, I have known patients who were convinced that any doctor who didn't give them a shot of vitamin B-12 up front on demand was a quack. You could not address their complaints without first injecting 5-6 ml. of Normal Saline in their butts. So would I use "Hydrogen Water" in certain clinical milieus? You better believe it.

Parenthetically when AIDS was stalking the land "Ozone Water" was in vogue. If it made a dying ( or just frightened silly) patient feel better then it qualified as therapy in the book of any decent clinician.
 
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #4 on: 09/06/2016 20:23:37 »
Utter, barefaced bullshit. But what do I know? I'm only a medical physicist, not an advertising copywriter.
I don't always agree with Alan, but he's bang on with this assessment.
The claim is utter dross. The fact that it is also exploitative does little to help.
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #5 on: 09/06/2016 23:01:19 »
The solubility of Hydrogen in water is 160μg of Hydrogen gas in 100g of water.
See: http://www.wiredchemist.com/chemistry/data/solubilities-gases

You actually need to get molecular hydrogen & oxygen fairly hot before they will react (eg with a flame or a spark).  This isn't going to happen when they are dissolved in water. If dissolved hydrogen does not actually react with oxygen, so you can't call it an antioxidant.

I understand that some anaerobic bacteria are able to metabolize hydrogen. Perhaps after you drink your 160μg of dissolved hydrogen, some bacteria in your small intestine might make a small meal of it? 
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #6 on: 10/06/2016 00:47:40 »
 ???
You actually need to get molecular hydrogen & oxygen fairly hot before they will react (eg with a flame or a spark).  This isn't going to happen when they are dissolved in water.

Hydrogen water can be made by several methods, including dissolving hydrogen gas in water under high pressure, dissolving electrolyzed H2 in water, and by the reaction of magnesium metal with water.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257754/
 

Offline eeyore

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #7 on: 10/06/2016 01:32:03 »
Forasmuch as the NHS reimburses for Homeopathic treatment in the UK under certain circumstances, however ludicrous it may seem to a rational person, I see no reason to look down your nose at "Hydrogen Water".

At least it is non addictive, which puts it head and shoulders above Oxycodone.

I doubt you would ever see a newspaper headline about the "hydrogen water" menace.
 

Offline chris

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #8 on: 10/06/2016 18:33:45 »
I understand that some anaerobic bacteria are able to metabolize hydrogen.

...in fact, bacteria in the gut produce hydrogen; a high proportion of farts is hydrogen gas. So the contribution from the water is inconsequential up against the volumes of "fart hydrogen" a person produces each week...

Thus, baked beans would probably be a better prescription...
 

Offline Raja Tariq

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #9 on: 15/10/2016 21:29:00 »
Peter A. Blacksberg  asked the Naked Scientists:
   
Dear critical thinking believers in science. Naked or / not.  People are making claims about "hydrogen infused water" as a cure all.  We believe the only cure is in the pockets of the purveyors of the products.
Please debunk this for the unsuspecting public.
With respect and admiration.
Peter
 
What do you think?

I am confused by your comment. I went to the MHF website and they are a science-based nonprofit and don't sell anything. Perhaps even more the article does not say hydrogen is a "cure-all" in fact, it specifically states that it is not, and that a lot more research needs to be done. They also  scientifically refute a number of fallacies like "microclustered water"  perhaps better than anywhere else.
 

Offline Raja Tariq

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #10 on: 15/10/2016 21:34:33 »
Quote
Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?

When you consider the proclaimed mechanism of action for "hydrogen-infused water",  you'll see that the entire concept is contingent on it's antioxidant capacity -- of which is not even remotely comparable to other antioxidant supplements.

Also note, any of these companies selling hydrogen water are likely using en vitro and/or rodent model-based research to support their claims. The animal diets used in these experiments are completely devoid of antioxidants for an extended period of time, then they introduce the hydrogen water to remediate the antioxidant deficit.

So bottom line, if drinking was the only way to get my antioxidants..... I'd buy orange juice.

~

Apparently you haven't read a single one of those 500+ studies. Yes, most of them are just animal models with few human studies (≈20), but none of them fed the animals diets devoid of antioxidants. Also if you read the article on the MHF website "what is molecular hydrogen", it states that the mechanism of action is NOT antioxidant. Please read that article first...
 

Offline Raja Tariq

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #11 on: 15/10/2016 21:37:07 »
Utter, barefaced bullshit. But what do I know? I'm only a medical physicist, not an advertising copywriter.
I don't always agree with Alan, but he's bang on with this assessment.
The claim is utter dross. The fact that it is also exploitative does little to help.

It is a fair concern with hydrogen being explosive, but the MHF website clearly explains that the articles published in Nature and others use hydrogen at levels below the flammability level. You'll have to actually read the article on the website....
 

Offline Raja Tariq

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #12 on: 15/10/2016 21:39:59 »
I understand that some anaerobic bacteria are able to metabolize hydrogen.

...in fact, bacteria in the gut produce hydrogen; a high proportion of farts is hydrogen gas. So the contribution from the water is inconsequential up against the volumes of "fart hydrogen" a person produces each week...

Thus, baked beans would probably be a better prescription...

The MHF website addresses the bacterially produced hydrogen also, and an article from I believe Nature talks about the dosing enigmas of hydrogen dissolved water and bacterially produced, showing that intermittent exposure is more effective from hydrogen water.
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #13 on: 15/10/2016 22:07:18 »
Quote from: Raja Tariq
dosing enigmas of hydrogen dissolved water
Should that be "enemas"?

Sounds less pleasant than drinking it...
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #14 on: 15/10/2016 22:19:27 »
the article on the MHF website "what is molecular hydrogen", it states that the mechanism of action is NOT antioxidant. Please read that article first...

lol.... There is a plethora of peer-reviewed studies which demonstrate my point - including the website you just used as a reference:  http://www.molecularhydrogenfoundation.org/what-is-molecular-hydrogen/

"It wasnít until 2007, when an article was published in Nature Medicine,5 which showed the [selective antioxidant properties] and antiapoptotic (anti-cell death) activity of molecular hydrogen, that the biomedical field took strong interest in hydrogenís therapeutic potential. Prior to 2007, only 50 articles were published regarding hydrogen as a medical gas, compared to over 500 articles within the past seven years."
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #15 on: 15/10/2016 22:31:15 »
Apparently you haven't read a single one of those 500+ studies.

none of them fed the animals diets devoid of antioxidants.

You wanna bet?  Try me.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #16 on: 16/10/2016 11:18:20 »
Quote from: Peter A. Blacksberg
Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?

Marginal at best.

Is it a cure-all? = Definitely not

Are the benefits worth paying for? = Definitely not

~
« Last Edit: 16/10/2016 14:49:41 by exothermic »
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #17 on: 16/10/2016 11:36:13 »
At least it is non addictive, which puts it head and shoulders above Oxycodone.

I doubt you would ever see a newspaper headline about the "hydrogen water" menace.

Why are you comparing the dynamics of an antioxidant to a narcotic?
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #18 on: 16/10/2016 12:19:39 »
I am confused by your comment. I went to the MHF website and they are a science-based nonprofit and don't sell anything.

Allow me to clarify....  since you apparently didn't do any research:

Molecular Hydrogen Foundation founder: Tyler Lebaron

US Patent #14/922,767
Inventors: Mikhail Kazakevitch, Tyler LeBaron
Hydrogen-generating effervescent tablet and methods therefor
US 20160113865 A1
ABSTRACT
Convenient, inexpensive and portable effervescent tablets that the consumer can add to water to generate hydrogen-rich water just prior to drinking.

https://www.google.com/patents/US20160113865


 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #19 on: 16/10/2016 13:35:15 »
they are a science-based nonprofit and don't sell anything.

They also scientifically refute a number of fallacies perhaps better than anywhere else.

the MHF website clearly explains

The MHF website addresses the bacterially produced hydrogen

500+ studies most of them are just animal models with few human studies (≈20), but none of them fed the animals diets devoid of antioxidants.

Just an observation here:

You curiously seem to know quite a bit about MHF, and your use of (≈20).... and the fact that you imply to have read all 500+ studies.... suggests you are involved in R&D.

Carry on.

~
 

Offline Colin2B

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #20 on: 16/10/2016 16:42:10 »

Molecular Hydrogen Foundation founder: Tyler Lebaron

US Patent #14/922,767
Inventors: Mikhail Kazakevitch, Tyler LeBaron
Hydrogen-generating effervescent tablet and methods therefor
US 20160113865 A1
ABSTRACT
Convenient, inexpensive and portable effervescent tablets that the consumer can add to water to generate hydrogen-rich water just prior to drinking.

https://www.google.com/patents/US20160113865

Good investigative research.
So I assume you wouldnt say they are an independent authority? :)
 
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Offline exothermic

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #21 on: 16/10/2016 16:51:24 »
Good investigative research.

Thank you.  Google is responsible though. It's just a matter of using key search criteria.


So I assume you wouldnt say they are an independent authority? :)

The way I see it,  MHF is just a foundation with a vested interest. They're not an authority on anything.

The founder likely has more conflicts of interests,  but I didn't even bother searching.
 

Offline Raja Tariq

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #22 on: 17/10/2016 05:08:58 »
the article on the MHF website "what is molecular hydrogen", it states that the mechanism of action is NOT antioxidant. Please read that article first...

lol.... There is a plethora of peer-reviewed studies which demonstrate my point - including the website you just used as a reference: 

"It wasnít until 2007, when an article was published in Nature Medicine,5 which showed the [selective antioxidant properties] and antiapoptotic (anti-cell death) activity of molecular hydrogen, that the biomedical field took strong interest in hydrogenís therapeutic potential. Prior to 2007, only 50 articles were published regarding hydrogen as a medical gas, compared to over 500 articles within the past seven years."

hmm...well I was referring to the the article entitled "Hydrogen: an emerging medical gas" which you get to from the home page by clicking on "what is molecular hydrogen". That article states: "In short, we consider it inaccurate or at least incomplete to claim that the benefits of hydrogen are due to its acting directly as a powerful antioxidant. Indeed, hydrogen is selective because it is a very weak antioxidant and thus does not neutralize important ROS or disturb important biological signaling molecules."... but I guess it could seem a bit contradictory perhaps...my only point was that the article said that the basis was more about "cell modulation" then as an antioxidant...
 

Offline Raja Tariq

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #23 on: 17/10/2016 05:18:05 »
Apparently you haven't read a single one of those 500+ studies.

none of them fed the animals diets devoid of antioxidants.

You wanna bet?  Try me.

Well... I guess I personally do not know for sure, but I emailed MHF and asked them if the studies on hydrogen were all done by feeding animals diets devoid of antioxidants in the first place. Their response was that they were not aware of any animal studies on hydrogen where that practice was used, and referenced the Nature Medicine publication  where "inhalation of 2-4% hydrogen gas significantly reduced the cerebral infarct volumes in a rat model of ischemia-reperfusion injury induced by middle cerebral artery occlusion"... anyways, if you know any article where that practice was done with hydrogen gas, I would like to ask them about it. I tried searching and couldn't find any, but not sure what key terms to use.
 

Offline Raja Tariq

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #24 on: 17/10/2016 05:29:03 »
they are a science-based nonprofit and don't sell anything.

They also scientifically refute a number of fallacies perhaps better than anywhere else.

the MHF website clearly explains

The MHF website addresses the bacterially produced hydrogen

500+ studies most of them are just animal models with few human studies (≈20), but none of them fed the animals diets devoid of antioxidants.

Just an observation here:

You curiously seem to know quite a bit about MHF, and your use of (≈20).... and the fact that you imply to have read all 500+ studies.... suggests you are involved in R&D.

Carry on.

~

Actually after seeing this thread and being marginally familiar with the area,  I just emailed MHF direct, specifically I was interested to know if it were true about all the studies just feeding animals food devoid of antioxidants, and then brought up a few of the other points mentioned here. They said that their needs to be a lot more research done, and that hydrogen is not a cure all, and that there are only ≈20 human studies which are reputable, but small (less than 100 people). I asked them what products they recommend, and they said that they are a science-based nonprofit and do not sell or recommend products, but suggest that I do my own research if I decide to try hydrogen products....now that I know that he helped make the those tablets, I am going to see if they are on the market yet.
 

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Re: Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?
« Reply #24 on: 17/10/2016 05:29:03 »

 

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