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Author Topic: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?  (Read 2864 times)

Online tkadm30

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Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« on: 13/06/2016 20:24:12 »
What is the true purpose of atypical antipsychotics ? I'm on Abilify (Maintena) and each month I must get this stuff injected into my limb without noticing any side effects from this drug. Fortunately I don't pay anything to get this medication delivered into my brain. Why should this drug help with anything ? I read many horrible comments on the net about how people are suffering from this drug, but so far I'm unable to tell how this drug could induce negative side effects. I came to the conclusion that schizophrenia is a fake disorder pushed by psychiatry to medicate people based on pseudoscientific voodoo.
« Last Edit: 16/06/2016 17:21:50 by chris »


 

Offline Villi

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Re: Does atypical antipsychotics really works?
« Reply #1 on: 15/06/2016 08:20:35 »
They do something that's for sure. Typically, they bind neuronal receptors, such as serotonergic or dopaminergic, in your brain quite strongly. So strongly that the receptor protein does not unbind from the drug and this leads to various biological effects on the neuron such as decreased or increased activity and potentially cell death, or cell growth in some cases.

If you need a life change, antipsychotics will probably do that for you because they'll change your brain. More likely for the worse from what I gather, but there could be some good too.
 
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Online tkadm30

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Re: Does atypical antipsychotics really works?
« Reply #2 on: 15/06/2016 13:30:05 »
They do something that's for sure. Typically, they bind neuronal receptors, such as serotonergic or dopaminergic, in your brain quite strongly. So strongly that the receptor protein does not unbind from the drug and this leads to various biological effects on the neuron such as decreased or increased activity and potentially cell death, or cell growth in some cases.

If you need a life change, antipsychotics will probably do that for you because they'll change your brain. More likely for the worse from what I gather, but there could be some good too.

Thanks, Villi. I guess long-term antipsychotics use may induce dopamine hypersensitivity and mesolimbic neuronal damage. Thus, drug-induced schizophrenia is perhaps the result of antipsychotics binding to dopaminergic neurons.
 

Offline Villi

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Re: Does atypical antipsychotics really works?
« Reply #3 on: 16/06/2016 02:33:31 »
They do something that's for sure. Typically, they bind neuronal receptors, such as serotonergic or dopaminergic, in your brain quite strongly. So strongly that the receptor protein does not unbind from the drug and this leads to various biological effects on the neuron such as decreased or increased activity and potentially cell death, or cell growth in some cases.

If you need a life change, antipsychotics will probably do that for you because they'll change your brain. More likely for the worse from what I gather, but there could be some good too.

Thanks, Villi. I guess long-term antipsychotics use may induce dopamine hypersensitivity and mesolimbic neuronal damage. Thus, drug-induced schizophrenia is perhaps the result of antipsychotics binding to dopaminergic neurons.

Long-term use of antipsychotics has not been studied very well. The FDA clinical trials for approving these drugs are very short compared to how long some people have taken them. I wrote some papers for school about the long term side effects from a biological perspective, and these drugs do seem to shrink brains and change the chemistry. However, it's very important not to view this negatively because variations in brain size have many different effects from person to person, some beneficial. Another point, taking these drugs may change your chemistry (or you may be lucky and have powerful cyp genes, which metabolize these drugs and make them do nothing to you), but to stop taking them changes your chemistry too. The longer you take the Abilify, the more severe the withdrawal symptoms may be if you come off it. Injections are also a whole other ball game compared to pill form. So many more variables since there's more technology in them compared to pill form.

Again to stress this, there could be benefit. Just gotta try it out in little doses I think.
 

Online tkadm30

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Re: Does atypical antipsychotics really works?
« Reply #4 on: 16/06/2016 13:25:12 »
Quote
Aripiprazole subgroup displayed significant increases in bilateral hippocampal volume compared with all other subgroups.

http://bjpo.rcpsych.org/content/bjporcpsych/2/2/139.full.pdf
 

Offline eeyore

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Re: Does atypical antipsychotics really works?
« Reply #5 on: 16/06/2016 17:07:39 »
Poor insight and impaired judgement are a hallmark of psychiatric disorders ---all psychiatric disorders.

For example seeking  pharmacological information from something like this forum might well be in indication that someone needs a conservatorship hearing.

The place to seek answers is the prescribing physician. These medications -second generation antipsychotics - are in use because they have relatively less side effects than first generation antipsychotics. But they should still be used after an evaluation by a board certified psychiatrist --- who knows his business.

Say what you will about antipsychotics, they have allowed hundreds of  thousands of people to prolong their lives and avoid being locked up for the rest of their lives--- often in prison.
 

Online tkadm30

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #6 on: 17/06/2016 11:20:51 »
Quote
There are no objective tests in psychiatry-no X-ray, laboratory, or exam finding that says definitively that someone does or does not have a mental disorder.” “It’s bull—. I mean, you just can’t define it.” — Allen Frances, Psychiatrist and former DSM-IV Task Force Chairman

http://www.cchrint.org/psychiatric-disorders/

Psychiatry will lock you up with antipsychotics dependence, no matter the mental disorder. My prescribing physician don't do biological testing to prove I have schizophrenia. The benefits of antipsychotics use are for psychiatrists and not for the patient I suppose. I guess my insight and judgement are not totally impaired by schizophrenia. 

I rather have a fully detailed report of a biological test to prove i have a psychiatric disorder than a boat of pseudoscientific voodoo.
 

Online tkadm30

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #7 on: 17/06/2016 19:15:44 »
Antipsychotic-induced insulin resistance and postprandial hormonal dysregulation independent of weight gain or psychiatric disease.

Diabetes. 2013 Sep;62(9):3232-40. doi: 10.2337/db13-0430. Epub 2013 Jul 8

Quote
Atypical antipsychotic (AAP) medications that have revolutionized the treatment of mental illness have become stigmatized by metabolic side effects, including obesity and diabetes. It remains controversial whether the defects are treatment induced or disease related. Although the mechanisms underlying these metabolic defects are not understood, it is assumed that the initiating pathophysiology is weight gain, secondary to centrally mediated increases in appetite. To determine if the AAPs have detrimental metabolic effects independent of weight gain or psychiatric disease, we administered olanzapine, aripiprazole, or placebo for 9 days to healthy subjects (n = 10, each group) under controlled in-patient conditions while maintaining activity levels. Prior to and after the interventions, we conducted a meal challenge and a euglycemic-hyperinsulinemic clamp to evaluate insulin sensitivity and glucose disposal. We found that olanzapine, an AAP highly associated with weight gain, causes significant elevations in postprandial insulin, glucagon-like peptide 1 (GLP-1), and glucagon coincident with insulin resistance compared with placebo. Aripiprazole, an AAP considered metabolically sparing, induces insulin resistance but has no effect on postprandial hormones. Importantly, the metabolic changes occur in the absence of weight gain, increases in food intake and hunger, or psychiatric disease, suggesting that AAPs exert direct effects on tissues independent of mechanisms regulating eating behavior.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23835329
 

Offline RD

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #8 on: 17/06/2016 21:18:29 »
Quote from: tkadm30
Q .  Do atypical antipsychotics really work?

An objective-measure is the lower the incidence of suicide ...
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/clozarilr-clozapine-reduces-the-rate-of-suicide-in-people-with-schizophrenia-according-to-study-in-the-journal-epidemiology-77774882.html


... I came to the conclusion that schizophrenia is a fake disorder pushed by psychiatry to medicate people based on pseudoscientific voodoo.

If schizophrenia is fictional, what is occurring with the homeless men claiming to be gods and/or the government is reading their thoughts ... https://youtu.be/rCbf-pKtkhU?t=1m21s
« Last Edit: 17/06/2016 21:42:11 by RD »
 

Offline Alan McDougall

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #9 on: 17/06/2016 21:41:46 »
They work for people that really need them like a schizophrenic, however, psychiatrists prescribe them for the control of other mental illness Manic Depression, from which I suffer which made me much worse.

They make you into the "Living Dead" because they reduce one to a shuffling zombie and they have a terrible effect making it impossible to concentrate, get comfortable and give one an unbearable constant feeling of unease and restlessness.

Alan
« Last Edit: 18/06/2016 19:16:11 by Alan McDougall »
 

Offline Villi

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #10 on: 18/06/2016 17:35:25 »
I rather have a fully detailed report of a biological test to prove i have a psychiatric disorder than a boat of pseudoscientific voodoo.

A biological test like a blood test?
 

Online tkadm30

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #11 on: 18/06/2016 18:26:53 »
I rather have a fully detailed report of a biological test to prove i have a psychiatric disorder than a boat of pseudoscientific voodoo.

A biological test like a blood test?

Yes, a blood test would be a excellent diagnostic, assuming schizophrenia could be detected in the blood.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/001395.html
 

Offline Villi

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #12 on: 19/06/2016 01:34:21 »
I rather have a fully detailed report of a biological test to prove i have a psychiatric disorder than a boat of pseudoscientific voodoo.

A biological test like a blood test?

Yes, a blood test would be a excellent diagnostic, assuming schizophrenia could be detected in the blood.

sznews/archives/001395.html

Thanks for the link.

I read about blood tests for bipolar and suicidal ideation but never came across this work for schizophrenia. This is a bit scary because more often than not, people are medicated straight away at any hints of psychiatric disorders. Therefore a blood test, and it's development, are skewed by the fact that there are almost no people with schizophrenia who are unmedicated to compare to with the 100% of people with schizophrenia who are/have been medicated.

I think you could detect "schizophrenia" in blood, but that is not really useful and is probably dangerous. Just my thoughts.
 
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Online tkadm30

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #13 on: 19/06/2016 10:34:39 »
Thanks for the link.

I read about blood tests for bipolar and suicidal ideation but never came across this work for schizophrenia. This is a bit scary because more often than not, people are medicated straight away at any hints of psychiatric disorders. Therefore a blood test, and it's development, are skewed by the fact that there are almost no people with schizophrenia who are unmedicated to compare to with the 100% of people with schizophrenia who are/have been medicated.

I think you could detect "schizophrenia" in blood, but that is not really useful and is probably dangerous. Just my thoughts.

Your thoughts are welcome. I don't mind sharing my experience with atypical antipsychotics and schizophrenia if that could help others.  ;)

I was forced to take antipsychotics medication because I believe chemtrails are real.

They think I'm delusional thinking that the government is spraying potentially harmful aerosols in the atmosphere. Anyways, I still believe chemtrails do exist, and that its a threat to public health.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=65238.25

I think "schizophrenia" is a huge scam to alienate anyone who dares to challenge what society has accepted as normal life. I have never been aggressive towards anyone or commiting criminal offenses. I'm only interested in chemtrails because this activity seems highly illegal and we need to educate and inform the public about this. 

 

Offline eeyore

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #14 on: 21/06/2016 10:12:00 »
It is fairly uncommon for a patient who is sick enough to need antipsychotic medication to have enough insight to understand that he or she needs them.  Personal anecdotal accounts don't carry much weight therefore.

A good way to check their efficacy is to ask the family members, who must live with the patient, whether they work or not.

Living with a person who suffers from a chronic mental disorder can be remarkably tedious --- and some times dangerous  -- if and when they are cheeking their medications.
 

Offline Alan McDougall

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #15 on: 21/06/2016 10:42:17 »
It is fairly uncommon for a patient who is sick enough to need antipsychotic medication to have enough insight to understand that he or she needs them.  Personal anecdotal accounts don't carry much weight therefore.

A good way to check their efficacy is to ask the family members, who must live with the patient, whether they work or not.

Living with a person who suffers from a chronic mental disorder can be remarkably tedious --- and some times dangerous  -- if and when they are cheeking their medications.

You are partially wrong as a balanced manic depressive I fully comprehend the need of medication to keep me stable, however, during a severe manic state(Now long in the past thank God) I became delusional enough to think I was healed and had nothing wrong with me a threw all my medicine down the toilets and flushed it away.
 

Online tkadm30

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #16 on: 07/09/2016 13:32:55 »
Schizophrenia is a really dumb disorder; I will never comprehend the need of medication for mental disorders.
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #17 on: 08/09/2016 12:14:44 »
Quote from: tkadm30
drug-induced schizophrenia
Long term cannabis use is thought to trigger schizophrenia in some individuals.

Maybe one drug is needed to counteract the side-effects of a previous drug?
 

Online tkadm30

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #18 on: 08/09/2016 12:26:52 »
Quote from: tkadm30
drug-induced schizophrenia
Long term cannabis use is thought to trigger schizophrenia in some individuals.

Maybe one drug is needed to counteract the side-effects of a previous drug?

Evan,

I figured this reasoning is partially wrong. Drug-induced schizophrenia is not causative of marijuana
administration.

Punishing someone by drugging him/her with antipsychotics is a likely cause of creating chemical imbalances in the brain by upregulating monoamine transporters. Marijuana use will not create symptoms of mental disorders
as it doesn't alter brain intrinsic activity.
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #19 on: 08/09/2016 22:36:57 »
Quote from: tkadm30
Marijuana use will not create symptoms of mental disorders as it doesn't alter brain intrinsic activity.
The soup of psychoactive chemicals in cannabis bind to a variety of endocannabinoid receptors in the brain, blood vessels, heart and gut.
This produces gross effects on brain activity which are visible in EEG patterns.
To me that sounds pretty impactful on intrinsic brain activity.

See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2234454/
 

Online tkadm30

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #20 on: 09/09/2016 10:47:55 »
The soup of psychoactive chemicals in cannabis bind to a variety of endocannabinoid receptors in the brain, blood vessels, heart and gut.
This produces gross effects on brain activity which are visible in EEG patterns.
To me that sounds pretty impactful on intrinsic brain activity.

See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2234454/

Thanks for the link. Activation of endocannabinoid receptors (CB1, CB2) in the brain is a totally safe and natural method to neuromodulate stress. The definition of "intrinsic brain activity" is the biological mecanism of how the brain respond to stress. Antipsychotics alters intrinsic brain activity by normalizing dopamine and serotonin levels, which may increase oxidative stress. [1]

So it appears to me THC is very safe substance compared to atypical antipsychotics with selective affinities to dopamine D1 and D2 receptors..

---

1) The ‘Holy Grail’ and ‘Poisoned Chalice’ Effects of Antipsychotics on Oxidative Stress in Schizophrenia: Can ‘Hormesis’ Explain this Paradox? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3361856/
« Last Edit: 09/09/2016 10:51:43 by tkadm30 »
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #21 on: 09/09/2016 22:11:12 »
The definition of "intrinsic brain activity" is the biological mecanism of how the brain respond to stress.

Where did you find that definition?

Intrinsic brain activity refers to the state of functional & spontaneous connectivity in the resting state.

 

Online tkadm30

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #22 on: 09/09/2016 22:56:03 »
The definition of "intrinsic brain activity" is the biological mecanism of how the brain respond to stress.

Where did you find that definition?

Intrinsic brain activity refers to the state of functional & spontaneous connectivity in to the resting state.

There's no such thing as the "resting state". The brain is continuously attacked by oxidative stress and must defend itself from lipid peroxidation. Things like atypical antipsychotics generates oxidative stress and inflammation. Marijuana use is a anti-inflammatory and a anti-oxidant.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #23 on: 10/09/2016 02:49:32 »
There's no such thing as the "resting state"


Consistent resting-state networks across healthy subjects

Functional MRI (fMRI) can be applied to study the functional connectivity of the human brain. It has been suggested that fluctuations in the blood oxygenation level-dependent (BOLD) signal during rest reflect the neuronal baseline activity of the brain, representing the state of the human brain in the absence of goal-directed neuronal action and external input, and that these slow fluctuations correspond to functionally relevant resting-state networks. Several studies on resting fMRI have been conducted, reporting an apparent similarity between the identified patterns. The spatial consistency of these resting patterns, however, has not yet been evaluated and quantified. In this study, we apply a data analysis approach called tensor probabilistic independent component analysis to resting-state fMRI data to find coherencies that are consistent across subjects and sessions. We characterize and quantify the consistency of these effects by using a bootstrapping approach, and we estimate the BOLD amplitude modulation as well as the voxel-wise cross-subject variation. The analysis found 10 patterns with potential functional relevance, consisting of regions known to be involved in motor function, visual processing, executive functioning, auditory processing, memory, and the so-called default-mode network, each with BOLD signal changes up to 3%. In general, areas with a high mean percentage BOLD signal are consistent and show the least variation around the mean. These findings show that the baseline activity of the brain is consistent across subjects exhibiting significant temporal dynamics, with percentage BOLD signal change comparable with the signal changes found in task-related experiments.

J. S. Damoiseaux, S. A. R. B. Rombouts, F. Barkhof,‖ P. Scheltens, C. J. Stam, S. M. Smith, and C. F. Beckmann
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2006 Sep 12; 103(37): 13848–13853.
Published online 2006 Aug 31. doi:  10.1073/pnas.0601417103
PMCID: PMC1564249
Neuroscience
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
« Reply #24 on: 10/09/2016 12:39:52 »
The brain is continuously attacked by oxidative stress and must defend itself from lipid peroxidation.

ROS are a part of normal cellular metabolism and defence systems. The body's antioxidant defense system can readily detoxify intracerebral ROS-mediated lipid peroxidation & cellular damage. It's over accumulation of ROS which alters this dynamic balance between the antioxidant system and ROS, eventually leading to cellular injury in the form of lipid peroxidation, protein oxidation & DNA damage.



 

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Re: Do atypical antipsychotics really work?
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