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Offline jerrygg38

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Why are neutrinos hard to capture?
« on: 21/06/2016 13:53:45 »
Professor Levine's Neutrinos are explained on "Mining for Neutrinos on U tube. This is also show under his name on the Indiana University South Bend physics professors page.
  Neutrinos are hard to capture and they must go deep underground to escape cosmic rays and other disturbances. The importance of his teams work was to explain the differences in measurement of the neutrinos from the sun and the calculations. It is an interesting one hour lecture at the college. He found that what we call neutrinos were actually a combination of two different neutrinos.
   The question of importance to me is why neutrinos are hard to capture? There are so many of them and they should destroy all life upon this Earth if they were in the shape of individual photons.
   The only solution that appears evident to me is that photonic energy appears in two different forms. There are waves and there are individual photons. If most of the neutrinos are part of spherical waves from the sun, then the capture will only occur when the wave encounters the right energy level of the substance absorbing it. If all the neutrinos were individual photons, then how could life exist upon this Earth?
   
« Last Edit: 02/07/2016 14:56:45 by chris »


 

Offline evan_au

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Re: Prof. Levine's neutrinos
« Reply #1 on: 22/06/2016 11:47:52 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
what we call neutrinos were actually a combination of two different neutrinos.
The Solar neutrino problem was that the measured flux of neutrinos on Earth was about one third what as expected from the observed energy emitted by the Sun.

This was accounted for by there being three types of neutrinos (not two), which oscillated between types on their way to Earth. The original detector could only detect one of these neutrino types, so the detected number of neutrinos was 1/3 of what was expected.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_neutrino_problem

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There are so many [neutrinos] and they should destroy all life upon this Earth if they were in the shape of individual photons.
Neutrinos from the Sun carry considerable energy from nuclear reactions in the Sun - energies in the range of 0.5 to 18 Millions of electron-Volts (MeV). They escape from the Sun without interacting with any other atoms, flying outward towards (and through) the Earth.

Photons in the MeV range are gamma rays, which are very harmful to life. These are also produced by these same nuclear reactions in the Sun. But because electromagnetic radiation like gamma rays interacts strongly with charged particles like electrons and protons, this energy travels a very short distance in the dense interior of the Sun. The energy is absorbed and re-radiated many times in random directions, diffusing outwards through cooler layers of the Sun until it reaches the visible surface at a temperature of around 5500K, with a peak wavelength in the visible range, and a peak energy of few eV (not millions!).

It takes about 8 minutes for light and neutrinos to travel from the surface of the Sun to Earth. It takes neutrinos about 2 seconds to reach the surface of the Sun; it is estimated that it takes photons about a million years to percolate to the surface of the Sun. 

These very energetic neutrinos would cause us considerable damage if they interacted with our atoms - but they almost never do. The mechanism that allows them to easily escape from the Sun also makes them so hard to detect - and it also makes them so harmless to humans.

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The question of importance to me is why neutrinos are hard to capture?
As mentioned above, neutrinos don't interact with the electric fields of our protons or electrons. These fields fill the atoms (and extend slightly outside the atom).

Neutrinos only interact with the nucleus of of atoms, and this is a microscopically small target compared to the size of an atom.

The strongest interactions within a nucleus are from the Strong Nuclear force. This has a range that is about as wide as a nucleus - just enough to hold together a Uranium nucleus with 238 protons & neutrons. But neutrinos don't interact with the Strong Nuclear force.

Neutrinos only interact via the Weak Nuclear force, which has a range which is about 0.1% the diameter of a proton. This is an incredibly small target to hit!
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_interaction#Properties

So the neutrino carries a lot of energy, but it rarely interacts with matter. This means you need sensitive detectors monitoring large volumes of matter in order to pick up a few interactions. The Ice Cube detector monitors a cubic kilometer of ice.

There are theories about still other types of neutrinos, which interact even more weakly than the "normal" neutrinos:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterile_neutrino
 
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Offline jerrygg38

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Re: Prof. Levine's neutrinos
« Reply #2 on: 02/07/2016 14:09:32 »
This was accounted for by there being three types of neutrinos (not two), which oscillated between types on their way to Earth. The original detector could only detect one of these neutrino types, so the detected number of neutrinos was 1/3 of what was expected.

Thanks for your viewpoint on your information which sounds good to me. However the oscillation of these neutrino types indicate to me that individual photons are constantly turning into large spherical waves of energy and that depending upon the detectors or gravitational intensities pop out as different individual photons again. Thus photons leave the sun at at certain points combine into combined waves and then encounter points near the Earth and become photons again and perhaps recombine into waves again and this can occur within the earth itself. Thus the photon is quite adaptable. Even though the targets are small the individual neutrino photons may do us harm but as combined waves they cannot hurt us.
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: Why are neutrinos hard to capture?
« Reply #3 on: 03/07/2016 18:46:25 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
individual photons are constantly turning into large spherical waves of energy
This is the wave model of light, which was one of the major theories for several centuries (always competing with the particle model of light).

In the end, quantum theory united the wave and particle model of light.
But there are still many cases where the wave model gives good results (especially if the light intensity is high enough to generate billions of coherent photons per second).

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the individual neutrino photons may do us harm but as combined waves they cannot hurt us
Neutrinos and photons are both electrically neutral. So in this sense they are similar.

But in many other respects they are radically different - for example, the electromagnetic field of light can interact with electrical conductors to form a mirror. However, neutrinos do not carry an electromagnetic wave, so they tend to go straight through mirrors as if they are not there.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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Re: Why are neutrinos hard to capture?
« Reply #4 on: 06/07/2016 13:35:13 »
In the end, quantum theory united the wave and particle model of light.
But there are still many cases where the wave model gives good results (especially if the light intensity is high enough to generate billions of coherent photons per second).
  That would be especially true in the space surrounding the sun. thus in my opinion the photons from the sun are in the form of spherical waves as they head toward the Earth.  Then the waves transfer their energy to the Earths gravitational field still in spherical form. Thus there is a change of color of future photons. then as the wave hits our particles it changes into photons.
  Alternately when the suns wave hits our particles the transfer of energy occurs and the photons are now referenced with respect to the earths gravitational field. thus photons arriving at test instruments are now reference with respect to the center of the Earth and thus the light speed relative to the test instrument is C. The Michelson/Morley experiment in either case proves nothing since the light changed reference planes moderate to huge distances from the Earth. This invalidates special relativity and the Doppler solution is true. However the geometric mean of the Doppler = Einsteins solution so that his calculations are excellent.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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Re: Why are neutrinos hard to capture?
« Reply #5 on: 06/07/2016 13:50:45 »
Neutrinos and photons are both electrically neutral. So in this sense they are similar.

But in many other respects they are radically different - for example, the electromagnetic field of light can interact with electrical conductors to form a mirror. However, neutrinos do not carry an electromagnetic wave, so they tend to go straight through mirrors as if they are not there.
  Thanks for the information. I will have to think about it more. My dot-wave patterns within ordinary photons are combined patterns of plus and minus dot-waves. Thus they have electrical properties. If plus dot-waves spin in one direction and the minus dot-waves spin in the same direction along the line of transmission, the frontal magnetic field will be zero since they cancel. Yet perpendicular to the line of motion you will get magnetic effects.
  You say that neutrinos do not produce reflective properties which you and most likely others correlate with electromagnetic effects. that would say that neutrinos are perfectly electrically balanced. Thus the net charge is zero and at the same time the charge everywhere is zero. So then we have a bundle of electromagnetic dot-wave energy in which the plus dot-waves and minus dot-waves coexist at a single point. They will still oscillate from a point to a radius which maintains their energy yet only when they encounter something that could use their energy level will they be picked up.
   The neutrinos then would be a special case of perfect balance of electrical energy. Why would they travel at near light speed C? The Doppler effect would place their frontal distance at near zero and their tail as large. This will maintain their high speed.
   So now I will have to add another form of the photons produced by the dot-waves. Thanks.
 

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Re: Why are neutrinos hard to capture?
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