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Author Topic: Dangerous legacies of religion and science.  (Read 503 times)

Offline Europan Ocean

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Dangerous legacies of religion and science.
« on: 14/07/2016 12:10:58 »
I see faults with human nature as shown in the thoughts and actions of religious and scientists. There is danger, and would be dangers.

The Popes have in the past kept people from free thought. It restricted understanding of medicine, astronomy, matter and nuclear physics... After Martin Luther in old Germany, things began to change. The Popes lost power. The Catholics have kept up with the progress of knowledge and often lead in education. But the great thinkers have sometimes been secular since. There has long been a separation of church and state. No more are people given public executions under the popes.

Arguably life is better. Better medicine, transport, but also industrial scale war and nuclear powers.

If one looks are all religion as one thing. Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Shintoism... Then there is infighting and wars, and restrictions, and some nice poetry and ideals...

The witch hunts and crusades and inquisitions and the invasion of Spain and Hungary were no good at all.

And if we observe scientists, like Nazi Dr Mengele, and Soviet scientists, and US scientists, then the legacy at worst is a nuclear arsenal, warring factions.

There already has passed industrial and high science wars like WW1 and WW2.

Science looks like a tool to exemplify the power of faulted human nature. Religion was an effort to improve human nature, or at least benevolent religion like Faith in Christ Jesus.

Science seems dangerous, both in dealing in weaponry, and as a philosophy. It seems to lead back to Nazi sympathy and Soviet ideas. Euthanasia, abortion, eugenics, ideas on human gene manipulation, anti-theism, pleasure loving. Some abortions are necessary, eugenics if not extreme is OK. But these and the other things can go to extremes.

It seems anything in the mind or hand or a person can go wrong. At least religion seeks to improve human conduct.



 

Offline PhysBang

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Re: Dangerous legacies of religion and science.
« Reply #1 on: 14/07/2016 12:25:35 »
It seems anything in the mind or hand or a person can go wrong. At least religion seeks to improve human conduct.
I agree. Though religions tend to go horribly wrong, they do mostly try to make existence better, at least for a handful of people that the religion deems "chosen".

Science, or any endeavor, without a commitment to improve human conduct is bad.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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Re: Dangerous legacies of religion and science.
« Reply #2 on: 18/07/2016 13:07:45 »
   What is the best economic system, socialism or capitalism? I believe in a balanced blend of the two. Each by itself has great faults. What is the best belief system, science or religion? again I believe in a balanced blend of the two. Thus a future religion would be scientific Christianity, Scientific Judaism, etc. That means the religions of the future must teach a form of Darwinian evolution although they can preach that the evolution was a crude process guided by a spiritual force. One man cannot be God so Jesus will have to reduced to a prophet just like Moses or the various prophets of all the religions. the Jews will have to be reduced to one people and one religion like all the other religions of man. Truth will be the most important attribute of the new religions as myths are replaced with scientific fact. Religions will be reduced to three basic laws. You shall make laws and live by them (Judaism and others), You shall love your fellow man as your brother. (Christianity and others). Finally You shall seek the truth and preach the truth (Science)
  Then the wars of religion will be gone. But this will happen in the far future as man starts to die out on this planet. In the end flesh eating bacteria will destroy man and man will treat the few with love and respect and sorrow.
 

Offline Europan Ocean

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Re: Dangerous legacies of religion and science.
« Reply #3 on: 18/07/2016 14:07:05 »
The best economic system is a "fair or just" one. Not too strict.

Countries without fairness are poor.

Capitalism motivates, together with freedom, and equality, leading to the possibility of fulfilling a dream of peace and prosperity.

Socialism comes after English policies from William Wilberforce that they agree with that should have broken the economy but instead led to true English greatness. No slaves, free education, fair treatment of animals. Not hard, austerity, but social policy. Because he was evangelical.

 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: Dangerous legacies of religion and science.
« Reply #4 on: 18/07/2016 14:51:32 »
Quote
Religion was an effort to improve human nature, or at least benevolent religion like Faith in Christ Jesus.
It provided an excellent excuse for the Conquistadores, the Inquisition, various pogroms, witch hunts, the Crusades, the persecution of the Huguenots and the Cathars, the extinction of North American tribal customs and beliefs, war in Bosnia, and ongoing gang warfare in Northern Ireland. Not to mention most of English history and an unreasonable amount of pedophilia and sadism. Whilst the Chuch of England could be described as "mostly harmless", there's as much filth under the carpet as with any other denial of human intellect.   
 

Offline Europan Ocean

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Re: Dangerous legacies of religion and science.
« Reply #5 on: 19/07/2016 00:57:04 »
Bad behaviour is human nature, not from faith in Jesus. And human intellect does good and evil. We have faith and it is not in denial of intellect especially in case of believers in Jesus more than in Genesis.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: Dangerous legacies of religion and science.
« Reply #6 on: 19/07/2016 13:20:22 »
Only an idiot would believe in obvious nonsense like Genesis. I have no idea what "believe in Jesus" means: he was an outstanding rabbi with some interesting revisionist ideas, and I have no reason to doubt his existence, but what is there to "believe in"?

Belief is acceptance of a hypothesis in the absence of fact. Faith is the acceptance of a hypothesis in the face of fact. There is limited use for the former, but the latter has no value and can be dangerous.

Given the list I provided earlier, and the limited means of slaughter available to the faithful at the time, christianity seems to have been the most dangerous faith to date. The availability of modern weaponry has conferred a potential advantage on islam but the game is still in progress, so I wouldn't bet on the outcome just yet. 
 

Offline jerrygg38

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Re: Dangerous legacies of religion and science.
« Reply #7 on: 19/07/2016 16:19:17 »
Alancalverd said "Only an idiot would believe in obvious nonsense like Genesis. I have no idea what "believe in Jesus" means: he was an outstanding rabbi with some interesting revisionist ideas, and I have no reason to doubt his existence, but what is there to "believe in"?
GG: The Bible was formulated at a time when the learning of man was very low. The people were uneducated but I bet if you took the people at birth and put them in modern schools, they would not be idiots. even today Orthodox Jews are trained at 3 years of age. I believe the fetus picks up data in the womb from the mother.
  So you call them idiots but in truth they are not. They are taught things that become part of them. the same is true of most scientists. They are taught things that are not true in many cases.
  For the Christians, they are taught that if you believe in Jesus you will be saved. Saved from hell for sure. Again they are not idiots. they merely have been trained in the religious party line. So a person is saved when he or she puts his faith in what he has been taught since childhood. And of course years ago if they moved away from the party line they were put in the bonfire.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: Dangerous legacies of religion and science.
« Reply #8 on: 21/07/2016 12:20:21 »
Being taught something is not a matter of choice. Believing it is. And saying you believe it can save your life, apparently.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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Re: Dangerous legacies of religion and science.
« Reply #9 on: 23/07/2016 11:48:45 »
Being taught something is not a matter of choice. Believing it is. And saying you believe it can save your life, apparently.
  It is very difficult for many to question their faith.To leave your religion often has great penalties. Spinoza suffered greatly when he became an atheist. today there is free choice in western countries but in Arab countries you could be put to death.
   All the Politicians love to say that they are good Christians. Do they actually believe in Jesus. Some do. Many don't. but few will get elected if they reject Christianity.
   I study religion and I believe in God. But my God is the creative force that brought us into existence. My God did not create the universe but is a property within the universe. thus we are trapped in space and time and my God is likewise trapped in space and time.
  My daughter said that God was a circle when she was a small child. And in my opinion it is a very good definition. Thus the universe circles forever and man circles forever. thus the universe contains memory and man is remembered. There is no beginning nor end to the universe. It merely circles forever from min to man and generates man and Gods forever. And the religions of man will repeat forever. And a person like Jesus will repeat forever. So he never really dies. He comes back over and over again forever. And really the same is true of all of us. We come back to live an infinity of lives forever. Instead of a quantum mechanical spectrum of lives, we merely have a circle of lives for all eternity.
   My God is simple and the best of man and the worst of man will always come back into existence forever.
 

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Re: Dangerous legacies of religion and science.
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