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Author Topic: Why is the light from the far stars red?  (Read 738 times)

Offline jerrygg38

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Why is the light from the far stars red?
« on: 24/07/2016 13:43:32 »
   Standard theory specifies that the universe has been expanding since big bang. this is due to the Hubble data line of the red shift of the stars as we move further and further away. If the universe has been expanding since after big bang, it would appear that everything in the universe has expanded equally.
   A ruler near big bang would have expanded as well and a time clock would be slower now than at big bang. Thus for a constant light speed universe it appears that everything would be common mode. One question is how fast are the far stars moving? If the universe is uniform, it appears that the far stars are not moving faster than us. Thus we do not have to use Einsteins mass formula and say that the mass/energy of the far stars is much larger than our stars.
   Therefore it appears to me that the far stars are not moving fast. However the light is red. So we have the problem that the distance to the far stars is increasing so that this distance has been increasing at a very high velocity.
  Then we are forced to believe that the red shift does not pertain to the velocity of the stars themselves but to the expansion of space itself.
   I am still trying to get a good grasp on the mechanism by which the expanding universe turns the light red and will post my answers on New theories. for the moment I am interested in what you guys have to say on this issue.
   


 

Offline chris

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Re: Why is the light from the far stars red?
« Reply #1 on: 24/07/2016 20:49:06 »
Would it be reasonable to summarise the question as "how do we know that a red-shifted star is red-shifted because the Universe has expanded between us and it, rather than the star moving rapidly away to start with?"
 

Offline jerrygg38

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Re: Why is the light from the far stars red?
« Reply #2 on: 24/07/2016 21:48:17 »
Would it be reasonable to summarise the question as "how do we know that a red-shifted star is red-shifted because the Universe has expanded between us and it, rather than the star moving rapidly away to start with?"
  Yes that is one way of looking at it.In some respects it is strange because an expanding universe will cause the galaxies to move apart and alternatively the galaxies moving apart rapidly could do so without the universe expanding. In either case the center of each galaxy would be moving fast with respect to our galaxy or other galaxies. Of course it is difficult to imagine that we are in the center of the universe and other places will look different.
  So what do you think? the other problem that I am not certain of is why are the photons red? There has been a mixture of theories such as tired light. The Doppler effect is nice from a mathematical viewpoint. It is easy to say that in words but I seek to understand the mechanism of how the photons change from when they were emitted long ago to the present when we see them. So I am still trying to get a picture in my mind of what happens to the photons over a period of 13 billion years. What do you think?
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: Why is the light from the far stars red?
« Reply #3 on: 24/07/2016 22:27:09 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
a time clock would be slower now than at big bang
According to Special Relativity, time progresses more slowly in a region of high density, when viewed by an observer outside that gravitational potential well.
In the past, the universe was denser than it is today, so would that imply that time was slower in the distant past than it is today?

Quote
everything would be common mode
I don't understand this term when applied to cosmology. What is "common mode", and how would it differ from an "uncommon mode"?
 

Offline Pseudoscience-is-malarkey

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Re: Why is the light from the far stars red?
« Reply #4 on: 25/07/2016 11:35:41 »
Why is the light from the far stars red?

Not all stars appear red to us. Do they?
 

Offline puppypower

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Re: Why is the light from the far stars red?
« Reply #5 on: 25/07/2016 11:58:39 »
If universal space-time is expanding how did planets, stars, galaxies and other superstructure form, since space-time is expanding even between the original smallest units of matter in the original continuum, thereby always countering gravity? As an analogy, we have two people separated by a distance. If space-time was expanding between them, at the same time they are walking toward each other to shake hands, how do they reach each other, considering the size of the universe that expanded from a point? It is like the two people reaching out to shake  hands, just ready to touch, then space-time expands so they end in different cities.

Or, say we have a hydrogen atom early in the universe, when universal space-time is more compressed. How can the EM force that holds the hydrogen atom together maintain standard bond lengths in space-time, if universal space-time is expanding and the EM force does not manipulate space-time in any direct way? Shouldn't the expansion of the universe make hydrogen atoms expand relative to their earliest days? If we expand hydrogen atoms, this will be endothermic; hidden energy that does not emit.

These questions go to the heart of why far stars appear red shifted.

If hydrogen atoms were expanding over time, the most distant galaxies, would have hydrogen from longest ago, that are much smaller. This makes them sturdier against the hotter background energy density of the early universe. Their emissions would be hotter due to lower energy levels, with the energy output expanding, as it moves through time and space, side-by-side with the expanding hydrogen they encounter. The value of expanding hydrogen is the electrons are able to share easier, allowing hydrogen atoms to clump even with space-time expanding. Expanding hydrogen provides a way for EM attraction to help gravity as the universe evolves. The shared bonding also makes hydrogen emissions appear to be lowering energy; red shifting. This is a theory that just came to me that follows from space-time expanding and the EM force not able to counter changes in space-time, like GR and SR.
« Last Edit: 25/07/2016 12:16:35 by puppypower »
 

Offline jerrygg38

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Re: Why is the light from the far stars red?
« Reply #6 on: 25/07/2016 14:54:19 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
a time clock would be slower now than at big bang
According to Special Relativity, time progresses more slowly in a region of high density, when viewed by an observer outside that gravitational potential well.
In the past, the universe was denser than it is today, so would that imply that time was slower in the distant past than it is today?

Quote
everything would be common mode
I don't understand this term when applied to cosmology. What is "common mode", and how would it differ from an "uncommon mode"?
   If I think about a physical clock and increase the pressure upon it, the mechanism will slow. So if we follow special relativity, the clock in a black hole will be slower or basically stand still. This is all compared to our clock and that makes sense.
  Now the problem is if we reduce the entire universe to a very small size, how large is the ruler and how fast is the clock as compared to here? What did Einstein say about this problem?
  It seems to me that the ruler shrinks and if the speed of light is constant it will take a much shorter period of time to move one unit. thus the clock moves very fast. That is what I mean by common mode. If everything in the universe doubled in size tomorrow for the same light speed, the clock would be slower. Does that make sense to you?
 

Offline jerrygg38

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Re: Why is the light from the far stars red?
« Reply #7 on: 25/07/2016 14:58:38 »
Why is the light from the far stars red?

Not all stars appear red to us. Do they?
Some nearby galaxies are moving toward us and the light is blue. Yet I have not heard any information that very far galaxies show any blue light although high velocity spinning stars can show up as red blue and red red as they spin toward us or away from us.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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Re: Why is the light from the far stars red?
« Reply #8 on: 25/07/2016 15:06:29 »
To Puppy power
  Wow you have a lot of ideas and questions. It will take me awhile to study it. I wonder what others think about it.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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Re: Why is the light from the far stars red?
« Reply #9 on: 25/07/2016 15:17:52 »
This so far has helped me in trying to obtain a better model of the photon and the mechanism by which the light turns red. I have several models but I am not happy with them. My inner brain comes up with new ideas as I sleep and then my outer brain writes them down and studies them. In general my outer mind acts as a devils advocate and destroys my new ideas as I compare the ideas verses the astronomical data and the ideas of the great scientists of the ages. And I agree that Einstein's math is a very good approximation to physical reality. Yet as an Engineer I want a picture of the photon and how it works. So far I am not happy but today I have new ideas and new questions.
  The question today is does the photonic radiation from the stars look like an electrical current in that bursts of energy flow out from the gravitational field of the sun such that the original photon does not reach us but merely pushes energy toward us? Is the speed of light merely the reaction speed of a chain of energy rather than the actual flow of an individual photon? What do you guys think?
 

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Re: Why is the light from the far stars red?
« Reply #9 on: 25/07/2016 15:17:52 »

 

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