The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?  (Read 2318 times)

Offline HealthTeacher

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« on: 29/08/2016 15:49:26 »
Finally I think I have found a place that can answer
this question(s) for me!!!  Obviously HIV is a very fragile virus that doesn't
take much to inactivate!!  My question is about disinfectant vs. natural
environmental "killing" of the virus.  What more to the virus would using a
disinfect do to "kill" the virus, that environmental exposure wouldn't do
itself.....lets say after a week of being out of the body?  Basically if a
person is OCD about the HIV virus, is it even worth covering everything (door
knobs, shopping carts, etc) with disinfectant in trying to destroy the virus
MORE than it already is?  What would it look like under a microscope after a
disinfectant vs. a week in the environment!
Thanks for your time!!!!
Middle School Health Teacher
« Last Edit: 29/08/2016 18:42:07 by Colin2B »


 

Offline exothermic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • Thanked: 22 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #1 on: 30/08/2016 05:01:52 »
What more to the virus would using a disinfect do to "kill" the virus, that environmental exposure wouldn't do itself.....lets say after a week of being out of the body? 

Basically if a person is OCD about the HIV virus, is it even worth covering everything (door
knobs, shopping carts, etc) with disinfectant in trying to destroy the virus
MORE than it already is?

A disinfectant would merely kill HIV in a shorter timeframe.

Now in the context of the proposed scenario, it wouldn't matter either way, as HIV wouldn't survive on a door knob or similar surface for more than a few hours [at best]
 
The following users thanked this post: HealthTeacher

Offline HealthTeacher

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #2 on: 30/08/2016 16:13:35 »
Thanks for the reply..........So in other words, using a disinfect wouldn't do anymore to KILL hiv than the environment would do, it would just speed up the process.  Basically the disinfectant after a week is a waste of disinfectant??
 
The following users thanked this post: exothermic

Offline exothermic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • Thanked: 22 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #3 on: 30/08/2016 17:40:17 »
Thanks for the reply..........So in other words, using a disinfect wouldn't do anymore to KILL hiv than the environment would do, it would just speed up the process.  Basically the disinfectant after a week is a waste of disinfectant??

Precisely.

HIV on a door knob couldn't survive in an oxidative environment for more than a few hours, so using a disinfectant after that few-hour timeframe would serve little purpose
 
The following users thanked this post: HealthTeacher

Offline HealthTeacher

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #4 on: 30/08/2016 19:02:52 »
Thanks again!
Do you have access to any pictures of what a dead (HIV)virus exposed to the environment compared to a dead virus from disinfectant would look like.  Would they look the same??  As you can tell, I didn't take many courses in microbiology. I can not convince a student that they are wasting their time using lysol on  doors, shopping carts, etc.  when dealing with HIV.  She thinks it will KILL it more!
 

Offline exothermic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • Thanked: 22 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #5 on: 30/08/2016 20:51:08 »
Do you have access to any pictures of what a dead (HIV)virus exposed to the environment compared to a dead virus from disinfectant would look like.  Would they look the same?? As you can tell, I didn't take many courses in microbiology. I can not convince a student that they are wasting their time using lysol on  doors, shopping carts, etc.  when dealing with HIV.  She thinks it will KILL it more!

Unfortunately I do not know of any such comparison. What your student needs to realize is that HIV is an extremely fragile virus outside of the host. Once it's inactivated via environmental and/or external degradation.... there is no reactivating. Period.

 
The following users thanked this post: HealthTeacher

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8648
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #6 on: 30/08/2016 21:03:27 »
Thanks again!
Do you have access to any pictures of what a dead (HIV)virus exposed to the environment compared to a dead virus from disinfectant would look like.  Would they look the same??  As you can tell, I didn't take many courses in microbiology. I can not convince a student that they are wasting their time using lysol on  doors, shopping carts, etc.  when dealing with HIV.  She thinks it will KILL it more!
I doubt anyone has a picture of a live virus.
Almost all virions are far to small to see, even with a light microscope. You need an electron microscope to see them.
But, in order to see something with an electron microscope, you need to expose it to a high vacuum- and it's quite common practice to plate it with a (very) thin layer of gold.
The virus wouldn't be viable after that.

 
The following users thanked this post: HealthTeacher

Offline HealthTeacher

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #7 on: 31/08/2016 01:03:33 »
Thanks again for the responses.  Great site!!
So what "kills" it?  When it looses its protein coat?  Basically disinfectant and the environment do the same thing to the virus..... disinfectant just does it faster?
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8648
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #8 on: 31/08/2016 22:22:53 »
"kills" is a tricky concept in the world of the virus. A virus isn't alive.
However like a lot of living things it works because it has a particular arrangement of component parts. Disrupting either those parts or the arrangement will inactivate the virus.

Bleach- as an example will destroy proteins.
Ultraviolet light will destroy the DNA or RNA of the virus.
Exposure to air will have a number of effects.
One is that it will dry out- most viruses will need some water to hold their structures together .
It also allows the virus to be exposed to UV light.
And it also exposes  the virus to free radicals- shattered bits of molecules that exist - typically in small concentrations- in the air.
Those radicals are very reactive and- much like hydrogen peroxide- they randomly react with bits of the virus and tear bits out of it.
In the long run, it doesn't matter. The virus gets torn to bits or too mangled to "work".

 
The following users thanked this post: HealthTeacher

Offline exothermic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • Thanked: 22 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #9 on: 01/09/2016 00:56:30 »
So what "kills" it?  When it looses its protein coat?  Basically disinfectant and the environment do the same thing to the virus..... disinfectant just does it faster?

Well detergent-mediated inactivation generally causes dissolution of the lipid membrane, splicing of the nucleic acids and permanent cross-linking of viral proteins. Environmental inactivation is primarily oxidative and sunlight-mediated.
 

Offline Atkhenaken

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 147
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #10 on: 01/09/2016 01:15:45 »
HIV is an internal problem caused by bad diet, alcohol, drugs, lack of vitamins, sleep deprivation etc. Using external cleaning agents will be ineffective. Note - There are no viruses involved in HIV.
 

Offline exothermic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • Thanked: 22 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #11 on: 01/09/2016 01:56:48 »
There are no viruses involved in HIV.

rofl.... nice try. This is a [science] forum.



HIV is an internal problem caused by bad diet, alcohol, drugs, lack of vitamins, sleep deprivation ect.

Do you believe in unicorns by chance?

~
 

Offline Atkhenaken

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 147
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #12 on: 01/09/2016 04:38:37 »
There are no viruses involved in HIV.

rofl.... nice try. This is a [science] forum.



HIV is an internal problem caused by bad diet, alcohol, drugs, lack of vitamins, sleep deprivation ect.

Do you believe in unicorns by chance?

~

Yeah, this is a science forum. So why are you posting such nonsense? Viruses don't have cell walls and are single celled. This picture is obviously not a virus. Note - - Electron microscopes can only see black and white, so where did all that colour come from? lol! Nice try though!
 

Offline exothermic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • Thanked: 22 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #13 on: 01/09/2016 10:43:31 »
Yeah, this is a science forum. So why are you posting such nonsense? Viruses don't have cell walls and are single celled.

"Enveloped viruses acquire lipid membranes as their outer coat through interactions with cellular membranes during morphogenesis within, and egress from, infected cells. In contrast, non-enveloped viruses typically exit cells by cell lysis, and lipid membranes are not part of the released virions. However, non-enveloped viruses also interact with lipid membranes at least during entry into target cells. Therefore, lipids, as part of cellular membranes, inevitably play some roles in life cycle of viruses."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3187601/

 

Offline exothermic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • Thanked: 22 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #14 on: 01/09/2016 12:29:40 »
This picture is obviously not a virus. Note - - Electron microscopes can only see black and white, so where did all that colour come from? lol! Nice try though!

Color enhanced Transmission Electron Micrograph..... I guess you didn't get the memo.

So how about them unicorns?
 
The following users thanked this post: HealthTeacher

Offline Atkhenaken

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 147
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #15 on: 01/09/2016 18:04:23 »
Yeah, this is a science forum. So why are you posting such nonsense? Viruses don't have cell walls and are single celled.

"Enveloped viruses acquire lipid membranes as their outer coat through interactions with cellular membranes during morphogenesis within, and egress from, infected cells. In contrast, non-enveloped viruses typically exit cells by cell lysis, and lipid membranes are not part of the released virions. However, non-enveloped viruses also interact with lipid membranes at least during entry into target cells. Therefore, lipids, as part of cellular membranes, inevitably play some roles in life cycle of viruses."



Trying to bluff me into submission with long complicated scientific jargon doesn't cut it with me! lol
 

Offline Atkhenaken

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 147
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #16 on: 01/09/2016 18:06:39 »
This picture is obviously not a virus. Note - - Electron microscopes can only see black and white, so where did all that colour come from? lol! Nice try though!

Color enhanced Transmission Electron Micrograph..... I guess you didn't get the memo.

So how about them unicorns?

It has been known in the past, that some stupid people have mistaken hormones for viruses! I hope that you wouldn't put yourself in that category? lol!
 

Offline exothermic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • Thanked: 22 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #17 on: 01/09/2016 18:18:39 »
Trying to bluff me into submission with long complicated scientific jargon doesn't cut it with me! lol

That's called peer-reviewed scientific evidence, and it annihilates your foolish comments.
 

Offline exothermic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • Thanked: 22 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #18 on: 01/09/2016 18:24:31 »
It has been known in the past, that some stupid people have mistaken hormones for viruses! I hope that you wouldn't put yourself in that category? lol!

Oh Ye, Of Little Knowledge.....



http://cdn-http.innerbody.com/sites/default/files/HIV%20virions.png
 

Offline chris

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5337
  • Thanked: 65 times
  • The Naked Scientist
    • View Profile
    • The Naked Scientists
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #19 on: 01/09/2016 18:49:52 »
HIV is an enveloped virus. This means that the core of the virus, which contains the genetic information, is wrapped up in an oily layer. Sticking out of this oily envelope are the "receptor" molecules that are used by the virus particle to attach to - and infect - target cells.

The envelope is stable only in an aqueous (watery) environment. This means that while it is in blood the virus remains viable. But transferred to an external surface, which will dry out, the virus will also dry and the envelope will be disrupted. When this happens the receptors upon which it depends for infectivity will also be disrupted and hence the virus is incapable of infecting.

At the same time, in the environment the virus is exposed to ultraviolet rays which chemically destroy the nucleic acid (RNA) that comprises the viral genomes (each particle has 2 copies of its genome). This mutates the virus out of existence, further reducing viability.

In terms of cleaning products that are effective, enveloped viruses, as a rule, are fairly fragile and relative easy to clean up. Anything that disrupts an oily structure will disable them. So soap and water, washing up liquid or an alcohol solution will "sterilise" enveloped viruses from a surface.
 
The following users thanked this post: HealthTeacher

Offline HealthTeacher

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #20 on: 02/09/2016 00:06:37 »
Yup.....I am just trying to find out if using  a disinfectant is a waste of cleaner and time after a period of time....like a day or so?  Does it do anymore to the environmentally already inactive virus.  OCD situation.
 

Offline exothermic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • Thanked: 22 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #21 on: 02/09/2016 01:13:58 »
Yup.....I am just trying to find out if using  a disinfectant is a waste of cleaner and time after a period of time....like a day or so?  Does it do anymore to the environmentally already inactive virus.

Your student is just wasting disinfectant....

"using a disinfectant after that few-hour timeframe would serve little purpose"

"Once it's inactivated via environmental and/or external degradation.... there is no reactivating. Period."
 
The following users thanked this post: HealthTeacher

Offline Atkhenaken

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 147
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #22 on: 03/09/2016 02:35:36 »
HIV is an enveloped virus. This means that the core of the virus, which contains the genetic information, is wrapped up in an oily layer. Sticking out of this oily envelope are the "receptor" molecules that are used by the virus particle to attach to - and infect - target cells.

What is the oil made of?
Quote
The envelope is stable only in an aqueous (watery) environment. This means that while it is in blood the virus remains viable. But transferred to an external surface, which will dry out, the virus will also dry and the envelope will be disrupted. When this happens the receptors upon which it depends for infectivity will also be disrupted and hence the virus is incapable of infecting.

How does an oily virus gain access to an aqueous environment when oil and water don't mix?
Quote

At the same time, in the environment the virus is exposed to ultraviolet rays which chemically destroy the nucleic acid (RNA) that comprises the viral genomes (each particle has 2 copies of its genome). This mutates the virus out of existence, further reducing viability.

How can a virus which is dead by ultraviolet light can infect other people at the same time?

 

Offline Villi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #23 on: 03/09/2016 07:27:53 »
HIV is an enveloped virus. This means that the core of the virus, which contains the genetic information, is wrapped up in an oily layer. Sticking out of this oily envelope are the "receptor" molecules that are used by the virus particle to attach to - and infect - target cells.

What is the oil made of?
Quote
The envelope is stable only in an aqueous (watery) environment. This means that while it is in blood the virus remains viable. But transferred to an external surface, which will dry out, the virus will also dry and the envelope will be disrupted. When this happens the receptors upon which it depends for infectivity will also be disrupted and hence the virus is incapable of infecting.

How does an oily virus gain access to an aqueous environment when oil and water don't mix?
Quote

At the same time, in the environment the virus is exposed to ultraviolet rays which chemically destroy the nucleic acid (RNA) that comprises the viral genomes (each particle has 2 copies of its genome). This mutates the virus out of existence, further reducing viability.

How can a virus which is dead by ultraviolet light can infect other people at the same time?

The "oily" refers to fatty acids which are in a bilayer. The FAs have a hydrophillic head and hydrophobic tail, the tails touch one another. So the oil and water analogy makes it so that the pressures exerted in the aqueous environment keep the viral envelope intact. If a virus is dead by UV, if it's DNA/RNA is inactivated, its receptor proteins may still be activated and can insert the damaged DNA/RNA, which in most cases does nothing or some very rare things.

Disinfectant on very dirty surfaces may be effective for HIV cleaning. Biofilms caused by large amounts of bacteria may harbour viruses as well. Mucosal, phlegmy and bloody surfaces for example. So disinfectant to destroy the biofilm and virus is a good strategy. Otherwise, if the surface is relatively clean, like a lab bench, then that would be a waste. A good strategy may be to simply disinfect the surface before and after use. But once per day would probably be way more than enough because a surface exposed to regular air is unlikely to get HIV on it, unless you are in a hospital with bleeding HIV patients.
« Last Edit: 03/09/2016 07:30:41 by Villi »
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8648
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #24 on: 03/09/2016 13:41:16 »
HIV is an internal problem caused by bad diet, alcohol, drugs, lack of vitamins, sleep deprivation etc. Using external cleaning agents will be ineffective. Note - There are no viruses involved in HIV.

So, would you be content to be injected with a suspension of HIV?
Or are you not that sure of yourself?
 
The following users thanked this post: chris, exothermic

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: What is the effect of disinfectant on HIV?
« Reply #24 on: 03/09/2016 13:41:16 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums