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Author Topic: Why do New York fire-fighters have carbon nanotubes in their lungs?  (Read 1312 times)

Offline thedoc

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Zack Wilkinson asked the Naked Scientists:
   How does the presence of carbon nanotubes of various lengths in the lungs of New York firefighters relate to the events of 9/11? Apologies if this has been asked before.
What do you think?
« Last Edit: 02/09/2016 10:28:57 by chris »


 

Offline RD

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Buckyballs & carbon nanotubes were once thought to be exotic, but they are present, in tiny amounts, in common soot.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1044580305001051
« Last Edit: 02/09/2016 13:00:55 by RD »
 

Offline exothermic

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Quote from: Zack Wilkinson
How does the presence of carbon nanotubes of various lengths in the lungs of New York firefighters relate to the events of 9/11?

First responders were exposed to airborne toxicants for extended periods of time.... hence the high numbers of respiratory impairment cases years later.


Case Report: Lung Disease in World Trade Center Responders Exposed to Dust and Smoke: Carbon Nanotubes Found in the Lungs of World Trade Center Patients and Dust Samples

Context
After the collapse of the World Trade Center (WTC) on 11 September 2001, a dense cloud of dust containing high levels of airborne pollutants covered Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn, New York. Between 60,000 and 70,000 responders were exposed. Many reported adverse health effects.

Case presentation
In this report we describe clinical, pathologic, and mineralogic findings in seven previously healthy responders who were exposed to WTC dust on either 11 September or 12 September 2001, who developed severe respiratory impairment or unexplained radiologic findings and underwent video-assisted thoracoscopic surgical lung biopsy procedures at Mount Sinai Medical Center. WTC dust samples were also examined. We found that three of the seven responders had severe or moderate restrictive disease clinically. Histopathology showed interstitial lung disease consistent with small airways disease, bronchiolocentric parenchymal disease, and nonnecrotizing granulomatous condition. Tissue mineralogic analyses showed variable amounts of sheets of aluminum and magnesium silicates, chrysotile asbestos, calcium phosphate, and calcium sulfate. Small shards of glass containing mostly silica and magnesium were also found. Carbon nanotubes (CNT) of various sizes and lengths were noted. CNT were also identified in four of seven WTC dust samples.

Discussion
These findings confirm the previously reported association between WTC dust exposure and bronchiolar and interstitial lung disease. Long-term monitoring of responders will be needed to elucidate the full extent of this problem. The finding of CNT in both WTC dust and lung tissues is unexpected and requires further study.


Environ Health Perspect. 2010 Apr; 118(4): 499–504.
Published online 2009 Dec 4. doi:  10.1289/ehp.0901159
PMCID: PMC2854726
 

Offline evan_au

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The World Trade Center was built before the cancer risks of asbestos were fully recognized by the public.
So asbestos was used as thermal insulation on the building's steel structure - that is one reason the building stayed up as long as it did with a burning aeroplane embedded inside.
When the building came down, the concrete and asbestos were pulverised, and breathed in by the emergency workers and nearby residents. Any carbon-based material were burnt, creating considerable soot (which would have included various carbon compounds including nanotubes and random nanoparticles, which could have penetrated deep into the lungs).

Which is more toxic to breathe: nanoparticles of concrete, asbestos or carbon? Maybe this unfortunate event might help us find out.

For more, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_arising_from_the_September_11_attacks#Materials_in_the_9.2F11_cloud.2C_and_potential_for_creating_Ground_Zero_illnesses
 

Offline tkadm30

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Another theory is the presence of energetic materials (thermite) which do produces nanoparticles (carbon nanotubes) when a exothermic reaction occur between molten metals and vaporized aluminium silicates.

Quote
Carbon nanotubes

In 2010, researchers reported the presence of carbon nanotubes in the lungs of WTC first responders.[15] Carbon nanotubes are high-tech nanostructured materials, which exhibit unique properties like ballistic conduction.  The health effects of carbon nanotubes have been shown to be similar to the health effects produced by exposure to asbestos.[16]

Carbon nanotube formation requires three basic components: a source of carbon, a source of heat, and the presence of certain metals.  In particular, formation of the single walled carbon nanotubes (SWCNTs) found in the lungs of first responders requires that the metals be present.[17] All of these requirements were met at the WTC site on, and for months after, September 11, 2001.

The three most effective metals for the synthesis of SWCNTs are iron, nickel and cobalt.  Both iron and nickel were present in high concentrations near Ground Zero, as shown by aerosol testing done by a team from the University of California, Davis.[18] Iron oxide and nickel oxide are common oxidants in thermite mixtures.

Airborne carbon compounds were certainly present in abundance at Ground Zero in the form of particulate matter resulting from the fires.  Heat was also in abundance, as extremely high temperatures were present on 9/11 and afterward at Ground Zero.  These temperatures were at least 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, hotter than first reported by government scientists, and were far higher than temperatures seen in a normal structure fire.

The molten metal and vaporized silicates that have been reported in the WTC dust can only be explained by the presence of an exothermic reaction like the thermite reaction.[19] Large quantities of carbon nanotubes might have been formed at Ground Zero due to the high temperature environments created by the thermite reaction and the airborne metal catalysts that were also present.

A second possible explanation for the carbon nanotubes in the lung tissue of the first responders is that the carbon nanotubes were components of actual energetic materials that were used in the destruction of the buildings.  Carbon nanotubes have been used as energetic modifiers,[20] to improve stabilization of explosives,[21] and to enhance ignition properties.[22]

http://911blogger.com/news/2011-02-04/energetic-materials-potential-cause-911-first-responder-illnesses
 

Offline tkadm30

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A study has investigated the production of nanoparticles from thermite reactions:

Quote
The most common nanoparticles produced with thermite reactions are carbon nanotubes which are formed when a small amount of carbon is added to the thermite mixture, usually in the form of graphite.

http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ855037.pdf


 

Offline RD

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Another theory is the presence of energetic materials (thermite) which do produces nanoparticles (carbon nanotubes) when a exothermic reaction occur between molten metals and vaporized aluminium silicates.

What nonsense : thermite reaction does not contain any carbon , ( whereas aviation-fuel is mostly carbon ).

Quote
In 2010, researchers reported the presence of carbon nanotubes in the lungs of WTC first responders.[15] Carbon nanotubes are high-tech nanostructured materials ...

As I mentioned previously in this thread, common soot contains carbon nanotubes: they are not a "high-tech" item.
« Last Edit: 29/09/2016 12:33:33 by RD »
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Another theory is the presence of energetic materials (thermite) which do produces nanoparticles (carbon nanotubes) when a exothermic reaction occur between molten metals and vaporized aluminium silicates.

Quote

The three most effective metals for the synthesis of SWCNTs are iron, nickel and cobalt.  Both iron and nickel were present in high concentrations near Ground Zero, as shown by aerosol testing done by a team from the University of California, Davis.[18] Iron oxide and nickel oxide are common oxidants in thermite mixtures.

There were thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of tons of steel (mostly iron, with some nickel) in the buildings themselves. There is no need to invoke thermite. And even there was thermite, the amount of iron and nickel present would be at least 6 orders of magnitude less than the iron and nickel already there--so the presence of CNTs is not evidence of thermite.
« Last Edit: 30/09/2016 00:09:50 by chiralSPO »
 

Offline exothermic

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Another theory is the presence of energetic materials (thermite) which do produces nanoparticles (carbon nanotubes) when a exothermic reaction occur between molten metals and vaporized aluminium silicates.

It would take truckloads of thermite to produce the amount of CNT's that were present after the collapse.

The thermite/world trade center conspiracy is just full of fail from all angles.
 

Offline tkadm30

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Here's a scientific paper about the discovery of active thermitic material in the dust of the collapsed 9/11 buildings:

Quote
Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade
Center Catastrophe


Abstract: We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the
destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in
this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan
resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later.
The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy
dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC).
The red material contains grains approximately
100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation
of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum
are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring
at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich
spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these
chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.

https://www.wikispooks.com/w/images/c/cc/Nano-Thermite.pdf
 
 

Offline tkadm30

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Offline RD

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A teaspoon of fuel will not burn in the same way as a bathtub of the same fuel ...
surface-area to volume ratio is higher for smaller quantities, which affects the reaction-rate with oxygen in the air , (aka combustion).

A flame-thrower would be a better comparison than a teaspoon.
« Last Edit: 30/09/2016 17:03:12 by RD »
 

Offline RD

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Here's a scientific paper about the discovery of active thermitic material in the dust of the collapsed 9/11 buildings:

The ingredients in the thermite reaction are iron-oxide, aka rust, & aluminium.*
 So "active thermitic material" is rust & aluminium, which will exist most buildings.

[ * Note: no carbon in that reaction ].
« Last Edit: 30/09/2016 17:29:06 by RD »
 

Offline exothermic

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Here's a scientific paper about the discovery of active thermitic material in the dust of the collapsed 9/11 buildings:

Quote
Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade
Center Catastrophe


Abstract: We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the
destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in
this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan
resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later.
The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy
dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC).
The red material contains grains approximately
100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation
of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum
are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring
at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich
spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these
chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.

https://www.wikispooks.com/w/images/c/cc/Nano-Thermite.pdf


Garbage:


"Bentham Open journals claim to employ peer review;[7] however, the fact that a fake paper generated with SCIgen had been accepted for publication, has cast doubt on this.[8][9][10] Furthermore, the publisher is known for spamming scientists with invitations to become a member of the editorial boards of its journals.[11]

In 2009, the Bentham Open Science journal, The Open Chemical Physics Journal, published a study contending dust from the World Trade Center attacks contained "active nanothermite".[12] Following publication, the journal's editor-in-chief Marie-Paule Pileni resigned stating, "They have printed the article without my authorization… I have written to Bentham, that I withdraw myself from all activities with them".[13]

In a review of Bentham Open for The Charleston Advisor, Jeffrey Beall noted that "in many cases, Bentham Open journals publish articles that no legitimate peer-review journal would accept, and unconventional and nonconformist ideas are being presented in some of them as legitimate science." He concluded by stating that "the site has exploited the Open Access model for its own financial motives and flooded scholarly communication with a flurry of low quality and questionable research."[14] Beall has since added Bentham Open to his list of "Potential, possible, or probable predatory scholarly open-access publishers". [15]

In 2013, The Open Bioactive Compounds Journal was one of the journals that accepted an obviously bogus paper submitted as part of the Who's Afraid of Peer Review? sting.[16] It has since been discontinued.[17]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentham_Science_Publishers
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Do you realise that the "colour chart" there is absurd?

Did it occur to you that it could only work if all the cameras were set up with exactly the same sensors and colour balance and that all the flames had the same emissivity?
Or are you just parroting dross without even considering that it makes no sense?
 

Offline exothermic

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Thermite.... lol

When a Boeing 767 loaded with around 23,000 gallons of Jet A-1 fuel penetrates the steel structure columns of a building and ignites, it burns at around 980 degrees Celsius. The cementite/pearlite composites of steel convert to a significantly weaker austenite - which burns at a mere 702.5 degrees Celcius. The austentite then becomes eutectic and converts to an extremely weak martinsite composite.....

The implication that the structural integrity of the WTC tower support columns weren't comprised substantially enough to cause support-failure is blatant nonsense.
 

Offline alancalverd

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NYFD personnel have hearts of gold, nerves of steel, and balls of brass, so carbon nanotube lungs come as no surprise.
 

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