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Author Topic: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?  (Read 536 times)

Offline Alex Siqueira

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Perhaps a not so simple answer as the question may be...

 If one, by reasons we will ignore, was to build a empty sphere on the vacuum of space, lets ignore the composition of the sphere's walls, and subsequently one starts to heat up the interior of this very sphere to the limits, universe limits, this without ever melt of deform the sphere, what would become of the among of space fabric trapped inside of it? And what would be the reaction of the other space onto the presence of such object?

obs.: Such sphere may not be able to to exist, if so, lets reduce the among of space on it's interior, and increase the quantity of matter, that forms the sphere's walls, simulating something like a celestial body, such as planet Earth, what then?
« Last Edit: 03/09/2016 17:49:11 by Alex Siqueira »


 

Offline Colin2B

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Re: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?
« Reply #1 on: 03/09/2016 08:39:06 »
Are you intending to introduce a new theory explanation, or is this a genuine science question?

Heat can be transferred by conduction and convection, but both of these require the space to contain atoms or molecules.
Radiation could be trapped inside by using reflective walls, but this again is not heating 'space' unless atoms/molecules are present. Heat would be lost because of imperfect reflection at the walls.
 
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Offline Alex Siqueira

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Re: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?
« Reply #2 on: 03/09/2016 17:37:37 »
Sorry I used to post on new theories section, should have posted it onto the proper topic,
 and thanks for the clarification about heat...

 What I meant is that space is cold, or at least has absence of heat, I was wondering if space was by any means isolated from the whole blackground, by using a sphere as the container, ignoring the restrictions of the composition of the sphere's wall...
 If it's impossible to conceive, lets just trap space, isolate a portion of the whole, inside a hugged amount of matter, basically a planet like object, formed by matter...

 Lets say that the heat will not be produced on the interior of the sphere, but that it will be emanating from the walls around of it, and such isolated "empty space", would be constantly subjected to the energy ad temperature of those walls, what then?

 Sorry about the poor imprecise description of the question, but since you're correct, about heat cannot be transferred without the presence of atoms "as we know"...

 Counting on on your good judgment to consider what would become of this vacuum, would it respond to the surroundings walls energy? Would it acquire density by being constantly infused with radiation? Would it loose size and increase density, originating something like a soup compose of sub-atomic particles?


 In a simple resume, space seems to be cold due absence of heat, although energy is able trough travel trough it by using photons, should this mean that "empty space" can react to the presence of all sorts of energy, although it has lower density and out there there is no efficient way to heat up the whole without dispersion of the energy, near a sun one would eject the irradiated areas trough the cosmos in form of solar winds....  But what if one could trap it inside dense atomic structure, where it would be virtually unable to transfer energy due pressure and the density of the atomic structure around of it?
 Would "empty space" turn into "back" into something that has high density and possible be able to produce acceleration and vortexes? This acceleration be affected by nearby "equals", and such self-contained acceleration of "empty space" at the center, if possible, be absorbed by the surrounding areas around of it, in order to produce electromagnetism?

 I'm just speculating a alternative point of view to a solid inner core as modern science assume...
 The thing is I can't find almost no experiments relating with space properties when submitted to such condition, and is acceptable to not have, once such conditions, could be only theorized but for the very reasons your described above, virtually impossible to test, and even if one does, wouldn't be possible to directly observe the interior, only measure the reactions of such sphere from the out side...
 
 But you're correct, it's supposed to be a genuine question, since I got no solid base, I had to start it based on almost nothing, and try to realize an possible outcome by absorbing the others opinion...
 There is no solid proof for me to expect to be correct, it's not an assumption
« Last Edit: 03/09/2016 17:43:13 by Alex Siqueira »
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?
« Reply #3 on: 04/09/2016 05:06:58 »
Perhaps a not so simple answer as the question may be...

 If one, by reasons we will ignore, was to build a empty sphere on the vacuum of space, lets ignore the composition of the sphere's walls, and subsequently one starts to heat up the interior of this very sphere to the limits, universe limits, this without ever melt of deform the sphere, what would become of the among of space fabric trapped inside of it? And what would be the reaction of the other space onto the presence of such object?

obs.: Such sphere may not be able to to exist, if so, lets reduce the among of space on it's interior, and increase the quantity of matter, that forms the sphere's walls, simulating something like a celestial body, such as planet Earth, what then?


I have read this post a few times and considered the reply you have had already.   Too heat the space up you would have to add a medium to the vacuum otherwise there would  be nothing to absorb the ''energy'' and ''heat'' up (increase in temperature). 

However, I suppose if we were to ''flood'' the vacuum with electromagnetic radiation we may see some sort of change in the vacuum atmosphere.

Would a light bulb produce ''heat'' in a vacuum?

Or would there need to  be an observer to ''feel'' the heat of the light bulb?  Because the light would still be there.

added - an astronaut experiences ''heat'' in space so how does the ''heat'' transfer from the Sun to the astronaut with no conduction or convection between the astronaut and the Sun?

« Last Edit: 04/09/2016 05:34:08 by Thebox »
 

Offline Colin2B

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Re: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?
« Reply #4 on: 04/09/2016 09:24:02 »
 
Would a light bulb produce ''heat'' in a vacuum?

added - an astronaut experiences ''heat'' in space so how does the ''heat'' transfer from the Sun to the astronaut with no conduction or convection between the astronaut and the Sun?
Yes, the bulb would produce heat. A lot of bulbs have vacuum between the filament and the glass envelope.
The heat is transferred by radiation, wavelengths in the infrared region.
 
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Offline Thebox

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Re: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?
« Reply #5 on: 04/09/2016 12:12:14 »
 
Would a light bulb produce ''heat'' in a vacuum?

added - an astronaut experiences ''heat'' in space so how does the ''heat'' transfer from the Sun to the astronaut with no conduction or convection between the astronaut and the Sun?
Yes, the bulb would produce heat. A lot of bulbs have vacuum between the filament and the glass envelope.
The heat is transferred by radiation, wavelengths in the infrared region.

So other than an enclosure, if we could produce an electromagnetic field with enough magnitude, could we enclose ''light'' with a field ?

My reasoning is that the Earths magnetic field stops some ''light'' from getting in, so in reverse could an electromagnetic field stop ''light'' escaping turning the space  effectively into a black body?






 

Offline Colin2B

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Re: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?
« Reply #6 on: 04/09/2016 22:51:59 »
Extreme gravity will trap the light eg black hole.
Earth's magnetic field doesn't.
 

Offline Alex Siqueira

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Re: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?
« Reply #7 on: 06/09/2016 02:21:46 »
Extreme gravity will trap the light eg black hole.
Earth's magnetic field doesn't.

 If we consider that we just teorize what a black hole trully is by observing it from the distance and its effects.. Is valuable to conside n alternative point of view, that instad black holes seems to suck matter inside a puncture on space time, the neutro star does only what anyother sun or planet is doing, trapping energy and heating up to the limits on the core....
  I mean a sun burns fusion to keep releasing energy, its not s dense a rocky plnet but the fusion ompensae the lower density...
  A planet coul be the same but since its not burning gass, it coul be doing the same eventin lower scale, and being able to do this by conserving heat using theolid osandthe manttlto setthe "anomaly" from having direct interaction with cold space, making it unable to transfer energy, efficiently...

 A black hole, is there a chance that be simple a sun, but without the necessity of burning fusion to heat and bright, if the frictio-n betwen the neutron star is enought to achiee the same results, there would be no need to be big, bright and most important would keep being interpretated by celestial bodies as the same mechanics...

 The true purpose of the question, is to explore if we consider inner cores as being traped space that by being unable to escape the gravitational pull and dense atomic structure around of it, it was by specific reasons forced to act as an micro black hole, for this considering that black holes does not suck, only decompose molecular structure, melting and fusing elements "around", without the necessity of doing so if not present, but with the requirement of outer layers, in case of planes, cause the lower mass of a planet, would need protection around the anomality to conserve heat, different from a sun, and a sun different from a black hole...

 What I mean is, considering this alternative point of view, that BH does not suck, but that due, trapped energy, inside their own gravitational pull at the center, force the space itself to accelerate space around of it, and the only difference of the power of the black hole to comparison to a sun or planet, that also posses a horizontal spiral disk, is that the density of the crost, absobes the acceleration of the horizon on its interior, and that the electromagnetism comming from the center, follows the same theory, but in exchange to a solid innercore to act like a dynamo, we would have a portion of space energy, something like that, that is speeding up "itself" due the presence of the one happening "inside" the sun, and Mars, and Jupter, a smaler one inside the moon, and so it goes on and on....


 I mean think about it, if we could change the concept of a blackhole to one that is born not form a supernova that ejected the crost, but one that was formed from and within the planets core, and more precisely one that since it was born never had the chance to directly interact with the lower density of space to produce a brief horizon, but only with the high density of the molten materials on the otercore and inner layers...

 Considering this, not an assumpion, if sightly possible, would be correct to wonder, that the energy base of earth on this case, is indeed the responsible for gravity, but not when realted to outer sources as a sun, but as from the exitiment that this energy base is casing on the interior of the inner core, resambling an anomaly with similar properties as a black hole has? Only limited by dense atomic structure?

 In resume, the whole point about this question, to ask to the ones with the proper knoledge to picture the frame and the possibilities or not, for this to be possible, nothing more...
 As if gravity is related to the energy base, its mass responsably for the anomaly, an the gravitational pull of the self-contained anomaly, proportional to the energy base, but in this scenario, the "electromagnetism", proportional to the spinning of such singularity, when related to equals in the surrownding areas?

  The first anomaly, trying to do the only possible think it could know how to do, replicate itself, yes planets and all their orbits sound very harmonic and to have a purpose, but could litteraly be not a logical awnser but a necessity, a anomaly gave existence for a dimension, the only possible thing this dimmension mechanics would possible try to achieve is to replicate itself... The way it does, seems beutyfull and perfect, to us, but maybe the universe is grouwing in are, it could no longer hold its primordial mechanics, a hot universe one, and not by matematics, but by logics, adapted itself to work with black holes, stars, planets and moons, all those the same thing, only diverging in mass....

 Cutting the especulation, a black hole that only decompose matter by "exiting the space fabric around of it" making the event horizon as a lower density field where matter, its molecular structure can no longer even exist, turning it back into energy and space, absorving the energy to its own, releasing radiation and electromagnetism, and spreading, filling the universe size, adding blackground....
 If such singularity, was never able to interact with the space fabric around of it, would there no event horizon as describled, only the powerfull rotation provinient from the interaction with the main star, and the inner rotation only, by accident, having it's own acceleration absorbed by the outer core, and so on and on...
  Would it result in a self contained singularity, that is not able to produce an horizon, only its horizontal spiral disk to orbit and to be orbited?

 Sorry for the especulation, but the theory witch refers to black holes as some spherical hole on space fabric, is out of question to be doubted? Or could be space pulling itself around the singularity, enveloping it inside its rotation, making resamble a hole in space, when it was indeed a "cover" made of intense flow of space around of it?
 

Offline Alex Siqueira

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Re: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?
« Reply #8 on: 06/09/2016 03:39:41 »
Perhaps a not so simple answer as the question may be...

 If one, by reasons we will ignore, was to build a empty sphere on the vacuum of space, lets ignore the composition of the sphere's walls, and subsequently one starts to heat up the interior of this very sphere to the limits, universe limits, this without ever melt of deform the sphere, what would become of the among of space fabric trapped inside of it? And what would be the reaction of the other space onto the presence of such object?

obs.: Such sphere may not be able to to exist, if so, lets reduce the among of space on it's interior, and increase the quantity of matter, that forms the sphere's walls, simulating something like a celestial body, such as planet Earth, what then?


I have read this post a few times and considered the reply you have had already.   Too heat the space up you would have to add a medium to the vacuum otherwise there would  be nothing to absorb the ''energy'' and ''heat'' up (increase in temperature). 

However, I suppose if we were to ''flood'' the vacuum with electromagnetic radiation we may see some sort of change in the vacuum atmosphere.

Would a light bulb produce ''heat'' in a vacuum?

Or would there need to  be an observer to ''feel'' the heat of the light bulb?  Because the light would still be there.

added - an astronaut experiences ''heat'' in space so how does the ''heat'' transfer from the Sun to the astronaut with no conduction or convection between the astronaut and the Sun?

 This, "
added - an astronaut experiences ''heat'' in space so how does the ''heat'' transfer from the Sun to the astronaut with no conduction or convection between the astronaut and the Sun?"

Is sort of the whole question, but I'm not considering the common situation when solar winds, spectrum, travels trough space fabric, untill it hits the astrounaut, and this can feel it...
  I wondering exacly what cant naturaly happen outher, besides perhaps on the interior of a self fusion reactor as a sun, or inside a self contained dense atomic structure to conserve thermal...

 I still doubt that solar winds are spectrum being carried by space to the astronaut, and that the portion of space that was injected with spectrum adquire movement, and was ejected to the astronaut, not only the spectrum but the space on the surrownding areas, creating a different of density bewen the solar wind area and the normal space one, cold...
  For this considering that space when subjected to energy bends itself, no necessity of base, only energy as spectrum, and the act of be carring such energy is what is forcing space to achieve acceleration, in the case of winds, only in a straigt line trough the cosmos, being able to tranfer the energy as it goes further till it looses its acceleration at the edge of the heliosphere....

 What I'm considering, and for this reasion speculating, is to do the same as your example, but instead of the space being adquiring acceleration due energy and spectrum, in a straig line away from the source, I consider to trap such field into a sphere like object, in specific a dense one, as a planets layers, both as for conservation of the effect, as for use its dense atomic structure as barrier to self contain the acceleration at the middle...
  I wondering, if I can make the straigth line irradiation that is inflating away from the heat source, hit against another high density wall that is as more energy or the same as the spectrum that is being carried, so there would be no short term transmision of such energy...

 I especulating if such condition would not promote a spinning acceleration that would increase its speed depending only on the energy of those walls, and those walls energy being related with the energy base of the object...
 Only trying to see if this wouldn't match to the relativity, only a change of the planets solid inner cores, to see if self contained space, that is constantly accelerating itself in function not of the mass of other planets or sun, but in function of the same event happening at the sun and other planets interior...  This would lead to the mass as being as important as it iss not, but would diverge when gravity as being related as the gravitational pulls of the center of the planets one towards and away from the other, for this the mass would be only the catalisor, and never would have being two masses actracting one another, but the gravitationall interference one plante would have with the other...
 Resulting in a sun that is actually pushing the planets away, as the planets are constantly trying to join with the sun, and not the opposit...
 It's no big deal just a question, containing a lot of speculation, not as for myself, but as for being totaly compreended by others, those with the proper knoledge....
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?
« Reply #9 on: 06/09/2016 14:50:22 »
Perhaps a not so simple answer as the question may be...

 If one, by reasons we will ignore, was to build a empty sphere on the vacuum of space, lets ignore the composition of the sphere's walls, and subsequently one starts to heat up the interior of this very sphere to the limits, universe limits, this without ever melt of deform the sphere, what would become of the among of space fabric trapped inside of it? And what would be the reaction of the other space onto the presence of such object?

obs.: Such sphere may not be able to to exist, if so, lets reduce the among of space on it's interior, and increase the quantity of matter, that forms the sphere's walls, simulating something like a celestial body, such as planet Earth, what then?


I have read this post a few times and considered the reply you have had already.   Too heat the space up you would have to add a medium to the vacuum otherwise there would  be nothing to absorb the ''energy'' and ''heat'' up (increase in temperature). 

However, I suppose if we were to ''flood'' the vacuum with electromagnetic radiation we may see some sort of change in the vacuum atmosphere.

Would a light bulb produce ''heat'' in a vacuum?

Or would there need to  be an observer to ''feel'' the heat of the light bulb?  Because the light would still be there.

added - an astronaut experiences ''heat'' in space so how does the ''heat'' transfer from the Sun to the astronaut with no conduction or convection between the astronaut and the Sun?

 This, "
added - an astronaut experiences ''heat'' in space so how does the ''heat'' transfer from the Sun to the astronaut with no conduction or convection between the astronaut and the Sun?"

Is sort of the whole question, but I'm not considering the common situation when solar winds, spectrum, travels trough space fabric, untill it hits the astrounaut, and this can feel it...
  I wondering exacly what cant naturaly happen outher, besides perhaps on the interior of a self fusion reactor as a sun, or inside a self contained dense atomic structure to conserve thermal...

 I still doubt that solar winds are spectrum being carried by space to the astronaut, and that the portion of space that was injected with spectrum adquire movement, and was ejected to the astronaut, not only the spectrum but the space on the surrownding areas, creating a different of density bewen the solar wind area and the normal space one, cold...
  For this considering that space when subjected to energy bends itself, no necessity of base, only energy as spectrum, and the act of be carring such energy is what is forcing space to achieve acceleration, in the case of winds, only in a straigt line trough the cosmos, being able to tranfer the energy as it goes further till it looses its acceleration at the edge of the heliosphere....

 What I'm considering, and for this reasion speculating, is to do the same as your example, but instead of the space being adquiring acceleration due energy and spectrum, in a straig line away from the source, I consider to trap such field into a sphere like object, in specific a dense one, as a planets layers, both as for conservation of the effect, as for use its dense atomic structure as barrier to self contain the acceleration at the middle...
  I wondering, if I can make the straigth line irradiation that is inflating away from the heat source, hit against another high density wall that is as more energy or the same as the spectrum that is being carried, so there would be no short term transmision of such energy...

 I especulating if such condition would not promote a spinning acceleration that would increase its speed depending only on the energy of those walls, and those walls energy being related with the energy base of the object...
 Only trying to see if this wouldn't match to the relativity, only a change of the planets solid inner cores, to see if self contained space, that is constantly accelerating itself in function not of the mass of other planets or sun, but in function of the same event happening at the sun and other planets interior...  This would lead to the mass as being as important as it iss not, but would diverge when gravity as being related as the gravitational pulls of the center of the planets one towards and away from the other, for this the mass would be only the catalisor, and never would have being two masses actracting one another, but the gravitationall interference one plante would have with the other...
 Resulting in a sun that is actually pushing the planets away, as the planets are constantly trying to join with the sun, and not the opposit...
 It's no big deal just a question, containing a lot of speculation, not as for myself, but as for being totaly compreended by others, those with the proper knoledge....

It is quite easy to consider, imagine I fired a bullet at you, the bullet is relatively harmless while in motion, the force and harm of the bullet is not experienced by you  until the bullet arrives.  Now imagine a machine gun that was spraying bullets, lots of bullets arrives.
Now imagine you move closer to me, you now experience more force and more pressure when the bullets hit you.
You are compressing the distance compressing the force of the bullets.


But in this scenario I made you immortal so no need to worry lol.
 

Offline Alex Siqueira

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Re: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?
« Reply #10 on: 06/09/2016 15:12:21 »
I just wondering that the planet structure, could be just a simple practical meaning to an end, this end being an atempt, of universe, to reproduce the conditions from where it was born...
  That maybe sun, earth, mars, jupter, and all those "planets" are orbiting one another, but considering that what is orbiting is a singularity trapped inside the density of their layer, their inner cores, space infused with energy, being felt by other space, producing acceleration at the interior, thus expansion, at the same time as the otherspace acceleration is compressing the crost and layers back towards the center, much like a isolated black micro black hole that does not ineract with space, and for this never originated a horizon...
  It's difficult to explain using english, my english, but I do believe that is very easy to glimpse on my tought, despise the high probabilitie of me being wrong, its basicaly expeculation of others opinion...

 That the mass of the planets never where orbiting one the other, but that cold space has lower density and poor acceleration, and that infused self contained one, is able to re-expand, and increase it's density....
 And the mass is only improtant to produce energy, the energy only important to produce the event, so never where the planets mass orbiting one another, but the anomality on their interior orbiting the equals nearby...
 The hudge amoung of matter/energy, being dirrected related with the outer compression it recieves, as soon as it heat up the interior, the elements melt, the constant presure sets all empty space within the elements to the center due its lower density, there such portion of space would be submited to something like a "reverse universe", the exacly opossit of what space is on the exterior... Cold compresses the weight over the hydrosphere towards the energy base, and the energy base towards itself, at the center the infused "hot" one, expand back at the same proportion it is being compressed...
  An that the orbits belong to the inner cores, and the mass of a planet is only the selter, the meaning to create and conserve it, but not important at all when directly realted with the electromagnetuical orbit, mechanics of a system, maybe universe does not even know or care about the layers of a planet, it only cares about achieve the results at the center, and all this its, at least for us has being just a fancy brutal casuality...
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?
« Reply #11 on: 06/09/2016 15:24:42 »


Well ! Our attempts to create Plasma are an attempt to mimic the visual universe, so like the Chinese dolls, maybe the visual Universe is a mimic of somewhere else. Size is relative, if the universe and all that was in it was to simultaneous scale down, we would not notice.  If the Universe and all that is within was to simultaneously up scale, we would not notice.

 

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Re: Trap "space" into a sphere, heat it up, what then?
« Reply #11 on: 06/09/2016 15:24:42 »

 

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