The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel  (Read 2148 times)

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« on: 13/09/2016 10:09:24 »
Based on the below simulation wheel gifs

The general description of the concept of the wheel

1. the light swinging weights provide extra torque force on the left side (descending)
2. the wheel, in order to balance itself by increasing torque on right (decreasing on left), raise up the heavy ball on the right side (ascending)
3. when the heavy ball is lifted high enough to roll inward (or roll outward) while also push up the swinging weight, the result is an increase of torque force on left, decrease on right
4. the wheel, to balance itself again, rise up the heavy weight again, heavy ball roll inward/outward again..... and so, the process repeat over & over

Questions/Issues

5. due to the torque gain from swinging weights, the heavy ball is already and almost always at the risen position from the start, so
(a) is there a need for an initial external force/push by human factor ?
(b) in this case, the torque gain from swinging weights is equivalent to the external human pushing force, except
(c) friction will reduce the external force, but not with the torque gain from swinging weights.

6. there is energy constantly input to the wheel
(a) heavy ball rolling down, that's influence by gravity, and
(b) when heavy ball push up the light swinging weight, that's heavy ball doing work, or is it gravity doing work ?

7. can the heavy ball rise up high enough, so that it can roll down and push up the light swinging weight, as the swing weight is also blocking the heavy ball from rolling down ? If it can't, then all will fail.

New perception to see Overbalanced Wheel

8. comparing solar cell and overbalanced wheel
(a) solar cell is a device that converts the energy of light into electricity;
(b) what if overbalanced wheel is simply a device that converts the energy of gravity into other form of energy, just like a solar cell ?
(c) or what if the wheel is a device that converts the linear path of gravity energy into circular type (without the gravity effect) ?
« Last Edit: 25/09/2016 16:22:44 by wheelMetal »


 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #1 on: 27/09/2016 12:37:41 »
Adding images to show a very fundamental demo of how the swinging of the weight is affecting the wheel's centre of mass

images taken from other site
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #2 on: 28/09/2016 08:20:52 »
Images showing a fundamental characteristic of the swinging weight, by arranging the weights cross image to each other, the wheel remains balanced.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #3 on: 29/09/2016 11:36:14 »
When a pair of swinging weights face to the left side, torque force increases on the left & decreases on the right. Or the wheel's center of mass shifted to the left side.
And when more swinging weights face to the left, more torque forces increase on the left & vice verse.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #4 on: 30/09/2016 06:58:13 »
Based on the standard overbalanced wheel design,

when the circle on the left and right are symmetrical to each other, the wheel is balanced; or the torque force on the left and right are equal a.k.a net force zero.

and when given a push to turn the wheel CCW, the left circles lower down and right circles rise up; or left torque force reduces and right torque force increases; or the right side of wheel becomes heavier.

also take into account the external push that turn the wheel, although the right torque force on the wheel increases, but if adding the push force and the reduced left torque together, then left and right force of the wheel is actually equal a.k.a net force zero;

and by removing that push, the wheel will return back to the position where the circle on left and right are symmetrical.
« Last Edit: 30/09/2016 07:55:07 by wheelMetal »
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #5 on: 01/10/2016 04:44:44 »
When combining the balanced wheel of swinging weights & the balanced of standard overbalanced wheel together, the result is still a balanced wheel.

Simply put, a balanced wheel is having torque force equal on both left & right sides a.k.a net force zero, so when combining two wheels both having equal torque force on either sides, the result is still a wheel having net force zero.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #6 on: 02/10/2016 02:02:36 »
With the combination of two balanced wheels forming into one balanced wheel, and this time by tilting the swinging weights facing to the left, the torque force on the left side increases.

The wheel, in order to balance itself, slightly revolve CCW or raise up the circle to increase the torque force on the right (and also decrease on the left). The wheel at this point is balanced with the circle staying at a risen position on the right side (and lower position on the left). Take note that the wheel is not going to revolve back to its previous position, the circle continue to maintain its risen position.

So what will happen to the wheel when the risen circle on the right side start to roll inward (or roll outward on the left) ?
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #7 on: 02/10/2016 16:40:00 »
Continue from previous post, with a balanced wheel having circle risen up permanently (and swinging weights facing to the left)

And when the risen circle start to roll inward (or outward), the left torque force of the wheel increases and decreases on the right; or the wheel become heavier on the left side.

So when the wheel is heavier on the left, it needs to balance again by rising the circle to increase the torque force on the right and vice verse.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #8 on: 03/10/2016 12:27:32 »
When an external force (a.k.a using our hand to press/push) is applied to the wheel, it increases the torque force on one side; which in turn cause the wheel to raise up the circle on the opposite side.

The problem with using external force is it need to constantly supply to the wheel; if remove that external force, the wheel will eventually go back to its initial balanced state.

But if this external force is replaced by embedding an extra weight on the wheel, it create a permanent torque force increase.

And then the extra weight can also be replaced by the swinging weights all facing to one side, also achieving the same result of permanently increasing torque force on the wheel.

But the problem is how to ensure the swinging weights will always be facing to one side a.k.a torque force increase on one side of the wheel ?
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #9 on: 04/10/2016 09:14:40 »
Notice that the swinging weights will either be facing to the left, or pointing downward, but never face to the right. So the swinging weights will always increase the torque force on the left side.

Notice the circle weights have an altitude higher on the right side of the wheel, and lower on the left side. So the circle weights will always increase the torque force on the right side.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #10 on: 05/10/2016 09:04:49 »
Notice the outward area on top right of wheel is empty, while top left is occupied.

Notice the inward area on bottom right of wheel is occupied, while bottom left is empty.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #11 on: 06/10/2016 03:12:18 »
When thinking of lever, the first thought probably will be the Archimedes' Lever, “Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.”

But in the case of this wheel design, it's not exactly using the Archimedes' Lever Principle (light weight longer distance vs heavy weight shorter distance)

The lever principle employs by the wheel design is
- same distance, more light weights vs less heavy weights

In the see-saw example with same distance from the fulcrum
- 4 x 1kg weights vs 1 x 4kg weight = a balanced see-saw;
- 5 x 1kg weights vs 1 x 4kg weight = light weights lift up heavy weight; but if
- 3 x 1kg weights vs 1 x 4kg weight = heavy weight lifts up light weights
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #12 on: 06/10/2016 17:25:20 »
It takes at least 5 x 1kg weight to lift up a 4kg weight on a see-saw platform.

But when distributing all the weights from a see-saw platform to the wheel, it will need at least 7 x 1kg weight to lift up the 4kg weight.

And having more than 7 x 1kg weight can lift up the 4kg weight even higher.
« Last Edit: 07/10/2016 01:44:10 by wheelMetal »
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #13 on: 07/10/2016 03:13:21 »
The left image, the wheel image having a slight rise of circle, shows that the torque difference after subtracting the left & right torque force, is 2Nm.

The right image, using a simplify way of first removing the circles that are symmetrical to each other (or canceling out the net force zero), the torque difference is also 2Nm, same as the left wheel image.

But take note, the right wheel image is only used for demonstration "at the moment", whereas the left wheel image is used for the actual demonstration, as it can show more increase of torque force when rising the circle higher up (or reduce of torque force when lowering the circle down).

But also take note, the wheel don't need to rise the circle too high up, just enough for the circle to roll inward/outward (a side-note, and also able to push up the swinging weight).
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #14 on: 08/10/2016 00:33:51 »
For a standard overbalanced wheel, by embedding the extra weight, it causes the circle to raise up in order to balance the wheel. And when the circle lifts high enough, it rolls down which in turn increases the torque force on the other side. The wheel has to balance itself again, raise up the circle again, but this process ended when the extra weight reaches near the bottom of the wheel.

The solution is to replace the extra weight with the swinging weight, achieving the same process just like what the extra weight did. But this time when the circle rolls down, it pushes the swinging weight up, ensuring the increase of torque force on one side of the wheel will always be maintained.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #15 on: 09/10/2016 04:20:20 »
When the circle is risen up & the wheel is in balanced state, even a slight rolling inward/outward of the circle can cause the wheel to rotate. It might not be a big rotation, but still can revolve a few degrees, and that can further cause the slope where the circle rolling down to become even steeper. Which in turn can further contribute to push the swinging weight up.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #16 on: 10/10/2016 02:18:17 »
For the wheel design, the most tricky part would probably be the circle weight pushing the swinging weight up.

Problem 1: The swinging weight is preventing the circle from rolling down

Problem 2: The torque difference gain might be insufficient to enable the wheel to raise the circle weight high enough

Problem 3: How efficient can the swinging weight affect the torque increase?

Solution:
Increase the number of swinging weights to lift the circle weight higher up, which in turn cause the slope to become steeper; using the lever principle of having more lighter weights to lift up heavier weights.

But adding more lighter weights (also means adding equal number of heavy weights as they work in pairs) would increase the diameter of the wheel, and making the wheel more heavy and bulky.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #17 on: 10/10/2016 17:41:38 »
The mass of the wheel (only the wheel, not including the circles & swinging weights) can greatly affect overall performance.

If it's too heavy, the COM (center of mass) would end up too near to the fulcrum, it might negate the torque difference gain of the wheel. Basically instead of having an unbalanced wheel, it would become a flywheel.

It's better to ensure the wheel is structured to be as light as possible, while still able to support all the circles & swinging weights. It should be those circles & swinging weights establishing the overbalance, the wheel's mass should minimize its interference.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #18 on: 11/10/2016 03:26:56 »
Overbalance VS Flywheel

A Flywheel is a rotating medium with its mass evenly distributed, a very "perfect" balanced wheel that is used for energy storage, .... but not talking about its storage capability.

If I push a flywheel, essentially I am adding extra force (or weight) on one side of the wheel, which in turn cause the wheel to rotate. Or I overbalance the wheel.

When the flywheel weighs 1kg, I can push the wheel with ease. From the perspective of the wheel, it felt a strong force apply to it.

And when the flywheel weighs 30kg, I find it difficult to push but still can rotate the wheel. From the perspective of the wheel, it felt a decent force apply to it.

Then when the flywheel weighs 1000kg, most probably I couldn't move an inch of the wheel. From the perspective of the wheel, the extra force I apply is insignificant.

If the extra force is equivalent to the torque increase on one side of the wheel (which causes the unbalance/overbalance), then it's advisable to keep the mass of wheel as light as possible.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #19 on: 12/10/2016 02:13:52 »
To lift up the box on the right side of the lever,

(a) on the left side, by placing a box near the rim, it take a lesser force to achieve lifting the right box up
(b) and when placing the left box further from the rim, it would result having to use more force to lift the right box up

Due to the wheel design of utilizing more lighter weights to lift up heavy weight, it is better to place the weights closer to the rim for optimization.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #20 on: 13/10/2016 01:24:36 »
The box that contains the swinging weight & the ball, calls it either compartment or quarter or section.

When the ball roll inward/outward thus increasing torque force to one side, the wheel has to balance by raising the next ball up, or the wheel raise up one quarter/compartment.

Notice the process of balancing doesn't cause the wheel to make one big complete revolution, rather only raise one quarter up or revolve a small degree.

And by increasing the number of quarters/compartments, multiple balls will be rolling inward/outward at the same time;

- with one ball rolling more than half-way down,
- another only half-way,
- another just start to roll down;

which results in the wheel raising the quarters up simultaneously. From the eye-witness/onlooker's perspective, it would give them the impression of the wheel doing a big rotation, but actually the wheel is only revolving small degrees spontaneously.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #21 on: 13/10/2016 17:12:34 »
A person can walk with ease when he is not doing any work.
But when the person is carrying a heavy load, he will end up walking slow with difficulty.

When a person is turning a hand-crank generator, but the generator is not powering any appliances, he will find it easy to rotate it.
But when the generator is powering some appliances, he will find resistance turning the hand-crank.

******************************

As the core concept of the wheel rotation is based on having one side of torque force higher than the other, the leftover after subtracting the torque force from both sides will determine the energy output or useful power (which will be very small).

And that energy output will affect the rotation speed of the wheel. When the output is not being used, the wheel will rotate normally. But when using the output to carry some load, the wheel will rotate more slowly.

But as long as the work done (carrying the load) does not exceed the energy output, meaning the torque force on one side is still heavier (but much lesser than before) than the other side, the wheel will still continue to rotate.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #22 on: 14/10/2016 04:47:26 »
Due to the output energy obtained by subtracting the torque force from both sides of the wheel, will be very small.... so it's not going to be the "holy grail of energy" like what some believe, but rather it's more of the "missing pieces" of renewable energy.

Solar energy
- have sunlight, have output; no sunlight, no output

Wind energy
- have wind, have output; no wind, no output

Hydropower
- limited reservoirs

Perpetual energy
- low output, so most of the time it will be storing up its energy
- when solar & wind energy is low, then releasing its stored output

The role of overbalanced wheel will probably be catered more of a support to solar & wind energy, fill up the cons of solar & wind, making the renewable family more complete.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #23 on: 15/10/2016 12:16:30 »
Using the lever concept employed by the wheel design to lift up a load.
 

Offline wheelMetal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • I'm a nobody, and I know I'm a nobody,.... do you?
    • View Profile
Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #24 on: 15/10/2016 15:40:12 »
Since the output of the lever (or the wheel), after subtracting both sides of torque force, is going to be weak, it's better to keep the workload as close to the fulcrum as possible.
« Last Edit: 15/10/2016 17:03:10 by wheelMetal »
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel
« Reply #24 on: 15/10/2016 15:40:12 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums