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Author Topic: What is binding energy?  (Read 698 times)

Offline jerrygg38

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What is binding energy?
« on: 23/09/2016 14:59:13 »
   Today I am thinking about binding energy and what causes it. So first I must get what everyone knows correctly. It is strange because one would think that binding energy is extra energy that binds things. But the reverse is true and I wonder why?
   Two protons exist apart from each other and if we push them together they experience a repulsive force. They each have a certain mass but if we are successful they will join together. Instead of the sum having more mass, the sum has less mass then the individual protons. They have lost energy and now are bound together.
   In general we learn things in school and memorize them but we do not give things much thought. The question is what mechanism causes the binding energy to occur? I have some new ideas but I wonder what the various scientists have conceived of?


 

Offline evan_au

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Re: What is binding energy?
« Reply #1 on: 23/09/2016 23:29:02 »
A Diproton (Helium with no neutrons) is unstable. In other words, the electrostatic repulsion exceeds the attraction of the Strong nuclear force. So in this case, they have gained energy by being pushed together.

Probably a better example would be Deuterium, a neutron and a proton. In this case there is no electrostatic repulsion, but there is an attraction from the Strong Nuclear force. So if you can get them close enough, they will join together, and there will be "missing mass", which is a measure of the binding energy.

The imaginary conversion of Tritium to Helium by adding a proton is an even more dramatic example, with more missing mass.
The reason it is imaginary is that this reaction potentially releases a considerable amount of energy. But in adding a proton to Tritium, there is no way to carry away the binding energy, so the reaction is unstable and will not progress.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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Re: What is binding energy?
« Reply #2 on: 24/09/2016 12:28:58 »
  Thanks for the examples. So only the neutron and proton work such that each by themselves have more energy then when they are together. I recall from my old physics book which I no longer have that the repulsive force between protons changes direction when they get close enough to each other. Is this correct? Since you say it is unstable I guess the internal oscillations of each rip them apart and they cannot bind.
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: What is binding energy?
« Reply #3 on: 25/09/2016 06:26:07 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
the repulsive force between protons changes direction when they get close enough to each other. Is this correct?
Yes, this behavior is the sum of several different forces:
- The Strong Nuclear Force between protons and neutrons is attractive, but it only has a short range (about the diameter of a Uranium nucleus).
- The Electric field field between protons is repulsive, and has infinite range. Neutrons don't feel this force.
- Protons and neutrons (and their component quarks) have an effective size, and can't be compressed beyond this size (at the energies we can reach).

So:
- At long range (eg the size of a hydrogen atom), the protons feel repulsion from the electrostatic force
            - provided there are no negative electrons in the way to cancel it out
- At close range (eg smaller than the size of an iron nucleus), the protons feel attraction from the Strong nuclear force
            - But only if there are roughly as many neutrons as protons, to overcome the electrostatic repulsion
- At very close range, the protons and neutrons can't be crammed closer together. This is about the density of a neutron star.
« Last Edit: 25/09/2016 22:39:55 by evan_au »
 

Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: What is binding energy?
« Reply #4 on: 25/09/2016 15:55:16 »
The universe can only push, it can't pull. Thus, all the universe can do is push and fall. If it falls it must fall into a hole. If it falls into a hole its called "pulling" or "attraction".
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: What is binding energy?
« Reply #5 on: 25/09/2016 17:31:09 »
The universe can only push, it can't pull. Thus, all the universe can do is push and fall. If it falls it must fall into a hole. If it falls into a hole its called "pulling" or "attraction".

So enlighten me. Where is the universe falling? To enable this falling I assume you have a well defined preferred direction called 'down'. Since it is the universe that you say is falling into the hole then gravity must only operate in a preferred direction. Your universe must be much weirder than ours. How many dimensions does it have?
 

Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: What is binding energy?
« Reply #6 on: 26/09/2016 02:10:43 »
The universe can only push, it can't pull. Thus, all the universe can do is push and fall. If it falls it must fall into a hole. If it falls into a hole its called "pulling" or "attraction".

So enlighten me. Where is the universe falling? To enable this falling I assume you have a well defined preferred direction called 'down'. Since it is the universe that you say is falling into the hole then gravity must only operate in a preferred direction. Your universe must be much weirder than ours. How many dimensions does it have?

Only humans have the ability to be weird, illogical and strange. The universe can only be what it is. Its humans that have misinterpreted what the universe is, because what the universe is, doesn't suit their agendas or purposes. Thus, the science world has misinterpreted what the universe is because of social constraints, previous misconceptions, personal ambitions, career choices and pressures from peers to conform to old standards. Thus, the currently accepted view of the universe is locked into the acceptance of many old redundant ideas from the past. Religion has restricted our view on the universe by creating an expectation that GOD is the creator and that science has to follow this generally accepted view point by molding its views around this GOD obstacle. Thus, we have ideas like the BIG BANG THEORY which are just religious based nonsense ideas which are compatible with the GOD CREATOR concept. Then, there is the concept of a 'pulling gravity' which is a concept of the horse and buggy era. It was believed that the horse pulls the buggy but this is a misconception of what is actually happening. The horse is actually pushing the buggy. Pulling is just an illusion.

In my universe, which is the REAL ONE, I believe; there is only one sub-atomic particle which exists in three different states; - left spin, right spin and no spin. These states could be interpreted as 3 dimensions. These dimensions or states interact with one another to form matter and space. No spin could be said to be a hole in space. (black-hole) The sun, which is a black-hole attractor, draws in the left and right spin particles which are spinning at the speed of light and pushes them together. This creates a no-spin particle or neutron plus light and energy. Note - I hope this clears things up for you.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: What is binding energy?
« Reply #7 on: 26/09/2016 12:41:01 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
   Today I am thinking about binding energy and what causes it. So first I must get what everyone knows correctly. It is strange because one would think that binding energy is extra energy that binds things. But the reverse is true and I wonder why?
I'm not really clear on what you're asking. Binding energy is merely the energy required to disassemble a nucleus into its component parts. So it's merely potential energy. I don't understand what you're asking since I don't understand what it means to cause nucleons to be separated into its components since binding energy is merely a theoretical value which expresses how much energy it takes to separate a nucleus into its protons and neutrons. Nothing "causes" it.

Quote from: jerrygg38
   In general we learn things in school and memorize them but we do not give things much thought.
That's certainly never the case for physicists in college and graduate school, that's for sure.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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Re: What is binding energy?
« Reply #8 on: 30/09/2016 15:33:41 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
   Today I am thinking about binding energy and what causes it. So first I must get what everyone knows correctly. It is strange because one would think that binding energy is extra energy that binds things. But the reverse is true and I wonder why?
I'm not really clear on what you're asking. Binding energy is merely the energy required to disassemble a nucleus into its component parts. So it's merely potential energy. I don't understand what you're asking since I don't understand what it means to cause nucleons to be separated into its components since binding energy is merely a theoretical value which expresses how much energy it takes to separate a nucleus into its protons and neutrons. Nothing "causes" it.

   I seek to understand what binds things together as I work on my latest book where I bring relativity into my theory. So when I ask a question I seek answers from this community to see what they understand. This gives me different viewpoints and I try to make sense of it. So you have no reason why things are bound together. Yet no answer may only mean that no one has found an answer yet.
   At the present I am looking into the mind of Einstein trying to understand what he understood but did not fully express. And some answers are coming to me which I will put in my future book.
 

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Re: What is binding energy?
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