# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: Energy generation with seesaw system  (Read 685 times)

#### vikram_gupta11

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##### Energy generation with seesaw system
« on: 30/09/2016 02:58:35 »
In this sketch you will find that I have attached 10 shake flashlights on  the both side of a balanced seesaw system and this seesaw is moving with 3 to 6 volt toy motor but  I have used 10 no. shake flashlights and each flashlight will produce only 2 volt as a output which will be less than input . On the first hand each flashlight is producing only 2 volt and on the second hand the total 10 no. flashlights systems are producing 20 volt . If we try this concept than input is more than output but if we add total output then it is greater than input.

please answer me that will these flashlights will be light up or not as mass is not an issue in this device.
Note(1)each flashlight is separate with another flashlight .
(2)to move a balanced seesaw there is need of less energy or input

#### chiralSPO

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #1 on: 30/09/2016 03:06:52 »
Even if the lights will glow, this does not necessarily indicate energy generation. Energy is not measured in volts. The current also matters. The relationship is that power (energy per unit time) is equal to the potential (usually measured in volts) times the current (usually measured in amps). Because of this, it is possible to convert high current low voltage into low current high voltage (with overall usable energy output less than or equal to energy input).

#### vikram_gupta11

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #2 on: 30/09/2016 03:34:44 »
Dear Sir,
I want to tell you that if these total  flashlight glows then output is more than input .
suppose we are using only 3 to 6 volt motor to press the seesaw system and I have attached a crankshaft with seesaw system and  a motor to convert motor's rotatory motion in to linear motion .Now motor is pressing the seesaw system and due to this, flashlights are also shaking  but we are using only 3 volt as a input to light up these 20 no. flashlights (also include another arm of seesaw ).
for an example   I have used 10 no. coil+ magnet and each coil+ magnet system will produce only 2 volt as a output ,which will be less than input and on the first hand each magnet+ coil system is producing only 2 volt and on the second hand the total 10 no. magnet+ coil systems are producing 20 volt . If we try this concept than input is more than output but if we add total output then it is greater than input.

Further more if I connect a motor with exhaust fan with each coil+magnet then these total 10 no. fan will work to pass the air through a blow pipe and this exhaust air will work to run a 10 volt motor again .In this way can we get more output than input.

In this case as far as I think I'm not violating any thermodynamics laws as we are getting less output than input with each coil+magnet system. But total 10 no. magnet +coil systems are producing 10 volt as a output and no reverse magnetism work in this system also due to more input than output.

#### chiralSPO

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #3 on: 30/09/2016 03:59:10 »
Dear Sir,
I want to tell you that if these total  flashlight glows then output is more than input .
suppose we are using only 3 to 6 volt motor to press the seesaw system and I have attached a crankshaft with seesaw system and  a motor to convert motor's rotatory motion in to linear motion .Now motor is pressing the seesaw system and due to this, flashlights are also shaking  but we are using only 3 volt as a input to light up these 20 no. flashlights (also include another arm of seesaw ).
for an example   I have used 10 no. coil+ magnet and each coil+ magnet system will produce only 2 volt as a output ,which will be less than input and on the first hand each magnet+ coil system is producing only 2 volt and on the second hand the total 10 no. magnet+ coil systems are producing 20 volt . If we try this concept than input is more than output but if we add total output then it is greater than input.

You are still only talking about volts. I cannot tell from this post whether you understood my previous comment about volts, current and energy...

Voltage is not equivalent to energy. For instance: a shock from a van de Graaf generator can easily be >100,000 volts, but barely hurts because the current is very small; but a shock from a lead-acid car battery can easily kill you, even though it is only 12 volts, because the current is large. (it is also possible to power a van de Graaf generator up to many tens of thousands of volts with a small battery of only a few volts for the same reason).

Further more if I connect a motor with exhaust fan with each coil+magnet then these total 10 no. fan will work to pass the air through a blow pipe and this exhaust air will work to run a 10 volt motor again .In this way can we get more output than input.

In this case as far as I think I'm not violating any thermodynamics laws as we are getting less output than input with each coil+magnet system. But total 10 no. magnet +coil systems are producing 10 volt as a output and no reverse magnetism work in this system also due to more input than output.

If overall output is greater than overall input, thermodynamics is violated. It doesn't matter how complex the system is. The first and second laws of thermodynamics are some of the best verified scientific concepts ever.

#### vikram_gupta11

• Jr. Member
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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #4 on: 30/09/2016 07:03:07 »
Dear Sir,

you are right but I used volt only for understand the concept. we are using only a 3 volt toy motor and this motor will run only with AA size battery.suppose one flash light is generating 1.5 volt and 1 amp so the electricity will be or power will be using P=VI(1.5*1=1.5 watt) and we can generate 1.5 watt power with each flashlight but I have attached 10 or 20 or 30 flash lights on the seesaw system and this seesaw is moving or turning  with the help of only 2  to 4 no. AA size battery.If we are getting 1.5 watt with each flashlight then can we use this current to run a 1.5 watt motor and in this way can we run or move attached no. fans which are 10 ,20 or 30 or more and again gathering the exhaust of these total fans through a blower to run a powerful turbine  than a 3 volt toy motor.

Note(1) the total exhaust gathered from these fans can easily run a small wind turbine which output will be greater than 3 or 4 AA size batteries.
(2) There is no issue of mass in this design so how F=ma will work in this design?

#### RD

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #5 on: 30/09/2016 10:02:12 »
Looks like you are trying to make an "over unity" device.

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #6 on: 01/10/2016 00:13:40 »
(2)to move a balanced seesaw there is need of less energy or input
You are changing the direction of the seesaw regularly and this requires additional force to provide the acceleration and deceleration.

(2) There is no issue of mass in this design so how F=ma will work in this design?
The equivalent of force in a rotating system is torque and this is needed to accelerate the mass of the seesaw and overcome its angular momentum. To understand how mass affects a rotating system you need to look up moment of inertia, you will find that torque is the equivalent of F and moment of inertia equivalent of mass.

Note(1) the total exhaust gathered from these fans can easily run a small wind turbine which output will be greater than 3 or 4 AA size batteries.
The losses in the system will ensure that you will never extract more energy than you put in.

#### vikram_gupta11

• Jr. Member
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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #7 on: 01/10/2016 07:30:03 »
Dear Sir,
Inertia is not a problem in the balanced seesaw system and remember it is balanced seesaw not imbalanced  and above all you can try it with just a measuring scale .Make a hole in the middle of the scale and turn it in horizontally  just 4 to 6 centimeter  towards left and right direction with your hand you will feel no inertia problem and no loss of energy. and these are not issues with this kind of mechanism or may then I can short out these problems.
Please try it with a measuring scale I hope you will be convinced that this concept will work.

vikram
« Last Edit: 01/10/2016 08:41:59 by vikram_gupta11 »

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #8 on: 01/10/2016 10:00:00 »
Your measuring scale is by design low inertia and your hand is too insensitive to detect the small force required for acceleration.
This is not true of a system which is required to do significant work.
Even if your total system was low inertia you still face the problem of energy losses ensuring that output energy will not exceed input energy.

#### vikram_gupta11

• Jr. Member
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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #9 on: 01/10/2016 10:52:09 »
Dear Sir,

that's what I want to say that if there is an inertia problem then it will be negligible and this will not effect the entire system.it will work  and if you have some technical sources then you can try it as I don't have sources to build it  or if someone in this forum could help me by providing technical support then I can build it.It will work .INERTIA WILL BE NOT A PROBLEM IN THIS DEVICE .BELIEVE ME.

vikram
« Last Edit: 01/10/2016 11:20:59 by vikram_gupta11 »

#### RD

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #10 on: 01/10/2016 11:51:28 »
... I can build it.It will work .INERTIA WILL BE NOT A PROBLEM IN THIS DEVICE .BELIEVE ME ...

"Seekers of Perpetual Motion,
Have fervent faith and saint's devotion.
The Gods of Physics duly smite them,
To be reborn ad infinitum."

https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #11 on: 01/10/2016 13:25:45 »
Dear Sir,

that's what I want to say that if there is an inertia problem then it will be negligible and this will not effect the entire system.it will work  and if you have some technical sources then you can try it as I don't have sources to build it  or if someone in this forum could help me by providing technical support then I can build it.It will work .INERTIA WILL BE NOT A PROBLEM IN THIS DEVICE .BELIEVE ME.

vikram
Inertia will be a problem, believe me, because you are not dealing with a low inertia balance system but have added the flashlights. The flashlights add moment of inertial and require torque to accelerate and decelerate their inertia, this requires energy.
However, the key point is that you will never get out more energy than you put in.

#### vikram_gupta11

• Jr. Member
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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #12 on: 02/10/2016 03:10:35 »
Dear Sir,
We  are just turning it 2 to 4 centimeter in left and right direction .This will not rotate at 360 degree angle so inertia problem is negligible .we are just shaking flashlights .This device will work definitely.

#### vikram_gupta11

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #13 on: 03/10/2016 06:18:34 »
There is very very less friction and above all mass is not an issue so where you see the inertia problem in this device .There is no inertia problem if you know about mass and friction.It will work .

#### chiralSPO

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #14 on: 04/10/2016 00:22:27 »
Quote from: vikram_gupta11 link=topic=68529
Dear Sir,
We  are just turning it 2 to 4 centimeter in left and right direction .This will not rotate at 360 degree angle so inertia problem is negligible .we are just shaking flashlights .This device will work definitely.

Ok, if you're so certain, perhaps you should make it... Good luck!

#### vikram_gupta11

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 25
##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #15 on: 06/10/2016 06:57:52 »
Dear Sir,
i can make it but the main problem is I don't have technical sources to build this device and if someone in this forum has source then he can try it and test it .

#### RD

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #16 on: 06/10/2016 09:40:24 »
... the main problem is I don't have technical sources to build this device ...

The main problem is nobody has the "technical sources" to construct a machine that creates energy, see ...
Quote
energy can be transformed from one form to another, but cannot be created or destroyed
. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics

... someone in this forum has source then he can try it and test it

Try an "over-unity" forum. They are full of crack-pots & scam-artists, but in those forums you will be humored , ( and have your time and money wasted).

#### vikram_gupta11

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 25
##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #17 on: 06/10/2016 12:13:35 »
The main problem is people didn't get convinced by the design of those  machines claiming perpetual motion,but I can convinced everyone  if he has any doubt regarding this design.

I'm ready to clear the doubts of everyone.

Vikram

#### chiralSPO

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #18 on: 06/10/2016 15:36:51 »
Dear Sir,
I want to tell you that if these total  flashlight glows then output is more than input .
suppose we are using only 3 to 6 volt motor to press the seesaw system and I have attached a crankshaft with seesaw system and  a motor to convert motor's rotatory motion in to linear motion .Now motor is pressing the seesaw system and due to this, flashlights are also shaking  but we are using only 3 volt as a input to light up these 20 no. flashlights (also include another arm of seesaw ).
for an example   I have used 10 no. coil+ magnet and each coil+ magnet system will produce only 2 volt as a output ,which will be less than input and on the first hand each magnet+ coil system is producing only 2 volt and on the second hand the total 10 no. magnet+ coil systems are producing 20 volt . If we try this concept than input is more than output but if we add total output then it is greater than input.

Further more if I connect a motor with exhaust fan with each coil+magnet then these total 10 no. fan will work to pass the air through a blow pipe and this exhaust air will work to run a 10 volt motor again .In this way can we get more output than input.

In this case as far as I think I'm not violating any thermodynamics laws as we are getting less output than input with each coil+magnet system. But total 10 no. magnet +coil systems are producing 10 volt as a output and no reverse magnetism work in this system also due to more input than output.

Do you think you can use this technology to power a car using a fan mounted on top of the car? Certainly the force of wind on the fan would make it turn when the car is moving. Why bother with seesaws and flashlights, when everybody needs self-powering cars...

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #19 on: 06/10/2016 23:02:57 »
.
I'm ready to clear the doubts of everyone.

Vikram
Dear Sir
I am sorry to say that you are in no position to do this.
Your reply #4 makes it clear that you do not understand the basic concepts of energy conversion and the fact that you cannot expect this device to produce a greater output power that that which is input.

#### vikram_gupta11

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #20 on: 08/10/2016 03:39:20 »
Dear Sir,
it is clear that you have not understood this concept and there is as much difference between your example of mounted turbine on car and my design  as earth and sky.

we are giving more input in this design and I'm not denying about it but this input will be equally distributed or there is no need of 10 time more force to shake the these 10 flashlights.

The design is simple and there is nothing complex to understand the design .suppose there is a BEAM which is in equilibrium position and 10 no. coil+magnet system or (flashlights) permanently attached on it horizontally and we are turning this seesaw side by side towards 2 to 3 centimeter.you can imagine its function very easily.

To turn a 4 kilogram (including mass of flashlights) balanced seesaw in 3 centimeter(thrice a second) there is need of only .36 newton force ,there fore I say that mass is not a big issue in this design even we can reduce it upto 50%more but the main issue is sliding of magnet to move pass the coil. suppose a coil+ magnets system require 10 watt to shake so that it could counter the Lenz's law then this 10 watt + .36 watt(newton)+ .50(watt) = 11 watt will be sufficient to shake all 10 no. flashlights or coil+magnet system.if a coil +magnet system 's output is only 5 watt then we can get 50 watt out put with these total 10 no. coil+ magnet systems and input will be only 11 watt.That's what I want to say.
furthermore if we replace coil+magnets with 10 people then these ten people will move or turn when we will shake or turn the arm of seesaw.
when this 11 watt force will applied on the arm of seesaw then every coil+magnet system will work as this 11 watt will be equally distribute in all these coil+magnet system.

if mass is equal then F=a and its mean that the force applied on seesaw will be distributed equally or in other words all flashlights will be accelerated equally.Thus each flashlight will generate energy and output will be greater than input.

REMEMBER WE ARE TURNING THE SEESAW OR APPLYING FORCE ON SEESAW AND THIS SEESAW WILL WORK TO SHAKE THESE TEN FLASHLIGHTS OR COIL+MAGNET SYSTEM.

IF A OBJECT IS IN STATIONARY POSITION THEN THE MOVEMENT WILL DEPEND ON THE FORCE THAT HOW MUCH FORCE WE ARE APPLYING ON IT .IT WILL MOVE SLOWLY IF WE APPLY LOW FORCE AND WILL MOVE FASTLY IF WE APPLY FORCE VIGOROUSLY ON IT

#### RD

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #21 on: 08/10/2016 08:25:11 »
Machines, like levers & pulleys, can multiply force, but cannot multiply energy.
Electric circuits, like transformers, can multiply voltage, but cannot multiply energy.

No machine, no circuit, no device, can multiply/make/generate energy, ever.
« Last Edit: 08/10/2016 08:27:28 by RD »

#### vikram_gupta11

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #22 on: 08/10/2016 12:28:57 »
I also have consulted with a physicist and first he also denied that this device will not work but when he understood it he is Answerless.
so I say that the input is equally distributing in this device and it will work.

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #23 on: 09/10/2016 08:47:39 »
Ask the physicist to come onto this forum and explain why he is answerless. We would be interested to understand his reasoning.

#### vikram_gupta11

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##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #24 on: 10/10/2016 14:54:48 »
Dear Sir,
you are right that this system will work to multiply the force but suppose input power is 10+watt(11watt) and all  10 NUMBERED flashlights are shaking with equal power input as in this system force is multiplying but remember that energy will be generated with flashlights  not with seesaw arm and each flashlights has a SEPARATE CIRCUIT so each flashlight will be produced 5 watt output and all over output will be 50 watt. The seesaw arm will work only to distribute equal amount of input in each flashlight but each flashlight has a separate circuit so it will generate separate energy  OTHERWISE WHATS THE BENEFIT OF TAKING SEESAW SYSTEM?

EQUAL INPUT BUT GENERATE OUTPUT SEPARATELY.

my earnest request to you that please reconsider about it.

vikram

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Re: Energy generation with seesaw system
« Reply #24 on: 10/10/2016 14:54:48 »