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Offline neilep

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« on: 23/03/2007 04:17:38 »
I find the nature of fads and fashions fascinating.

What makes something come into fashion and then go out of fashion to remain buried forever or to come back years later.

What is the science of the metabolism that creates such a thing that it's like a mild form of hysteria ?

From music to food....from art to apparel.......from style to substance and so on and so forth.

There must be a physiological reason for the nature of trends and fads !!...........what once was the norm...can now be called ' cheesy '(think 70's)

What is happening in the brain and the nature of perception that heightens ones appreciation of a thing to a degree where one fuels it by consumption of the fad ?

...and then it's over !!.....maybe not to be replaced by the latest thing but just that it has run it's course !


Fads are a curious thing are they not.....?...not just from the fashion point of view but also the mechanics of the mind that make them so !
« Last Edit: 23/03/2007 04:19:20 by neilep »


 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #1 on: 23/03/2007 04:31:12 »
That is very very interesting.I have often wondered how a thing like the body piercings, Tattoo's, and other forms of body art come and go over the years.. being more prevelent some times then at others.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #2 on: 23/03/2007 13:41:11 »
I think a lot of it is due to media hype. A particular band, artiste or actor becomes flavour of the month and their style gets adopted by wannabe sheep (no offence Neil  :D ) who daren't be different or don't have the wit to decide for themselves what to wear.

The Kagul is a classic example. They were considered to be trainspotteresque geek-wear until Liam Gallagher was photographed wearing 1 and suddenly they became de rigeur.
 

Offline neilep

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« Reply #3 on: 23/03/2007 14:24:16 »
I think a lot of it is due to media hype. A particular band, artiste or actor becomes flavour of the month and their style gets adopted by wannabe sheep (no offence Neil  :D ) who daren't be different or don't have the wit to decide for themselves what to wear.

The Kagul is a classic example. They were considered to be trainspotteresque geek-wear until Liam Gallagher was photographed wearing 1 and suddenly they became de rigeur.

No offence taken Dr Eth (whose wonderful site at http://beaverland.forumup.us is a must see !)

Certainly media hype leads the way and almost has the power to dictate trends.

I am probably more so interested in the human mechanics of it though.... For example...assume a car.........what is it in particular that makes this years car model look more fashionable than last years ? and as a consequence the style and shape of last years model falls from vogue somewhere via a metabolic reaction.

Does something have to be replaced by a newer model before it goes out of fashion ?
 

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« Reply #4 on: 23/03/2007 15:02:26 »
I do agree that there are far more complex human dynamics - the need to conform.

The media is a means of propagating and feeding that dynamic, but it is the tool, not the driving force.

There are two sides to this - the need of people to follow an example, to conform to the collective norm; and the way people select what the collective norm should be.

But fashions come over all sorts of timescales (what is  is that men's fashions, which do exist, change far more slowly than women's fashions).  There are also fashions in politics, even in economic activity and stock markets, in pretty much all areas of human activity.  Few people do not like to stick out like a sore thumb, so they conform to what they perceive as the latest norm.  It is part of the need to belong to an identifiable group (although, it also follows that to belong to one group is also to distance oneself from another group - and so is part of the tribal instinct in humans).
 

Offline neilep

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« Reply #5 on: 23/03/2007 16:47:30 »
It's not just the need to conform......there is a physiologocal response too.......

Something new becomes a preference not just to keep up with the Jones's but also a physiological drive to satiate the need for the fashion......at it's peak the need is fulfilled......as it wanes the need dilutes.

What is the biology of trends ?
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #6 on: 23/03/2007 17:42:26 »
What about social snobbery! companies like apple reply on it.
 

another_someone

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« Reply #7 on: 23/03/2007 17:49:17 »
What about social snobbery! companies like apple reply on it.

Exactly so - the same tribal instinct.

Social snobbery is about demonstrating you belong to one tribe, while distancing yourself from another tribe.
 

another_someone

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« Reply #8 on: 23/03/2007 17:59:29 »
It's not just the need to conform......there is a physiological response too.......

Something new becomes a preference not just to keep up with the Jones's but also a physiological drive to satiate the need for the fashion......at it's peak the need is fulfilled......as it wanes the need dilutes.

What is the biology of trends ?

OK, Jones is perceived as the alpha (male or female).  Lesser individuals discern their rank by how close they are to the alpha, so they quickly mimic the identifying marks of the alpha.

As time progresses, more and more people people are mimicking what Jones is doing, so the exclusivity of being close to Jones wanes.  Jones then needs to create a new image, and those who can respond most rapidly to that change will be those who are closest to Jones (and thus demonstrating that they have a higher social position within Jones's tribe), and those who are slower at responding to Jones's rapid changes in image are either lower down in the social status within that tribe, or never cared what Jones was doing in the first place, and so belonged to a different tribe altogether.

Yes, there is a physiological need; insofar as there is a physiological need to belong (those who are social outsiders, even social outcastes, will be more prone to physiological as well as psychological diseases, as well as having greater difficulty finding a mate).
 

Offline neilep

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« Reply #9 on: 23/03/2007 18:33:26 »
It's not just the need to conform......there is a physiological response too.......

Something new becomes a preference not just to keep up with the Jones's but also a physiological drive to satiate the need for the fashion......at it's peak the need is fulfilled......as it wanes the need dilutes.

What is the biology of trends ?

OK, Jones is perceived as the alpha (male or female).  Lesser individuals discern their rank by how close they are to the alpha, so they quickly mimic the identifying marks of the alpha.

As time progresses, more and more people people are mimicking what Jones is doing, so the exclusivity of being close to Jones wanes.  Jones then needs to create a new image, and those who can respond most rapidly to that change will be those who are closest to Jones (and thus demonstrating that they have a higher social position within Jones's tribe), and those who are slower at responding to Jones's rapid changes in image are either lower down in the social status within that tribe, or never cared what Jones was doing in the first place, and so belonged to a different tribe altogether.

Yes, there is a physiological need; insofar as there is a physiological need to belong (those who are social outsiders, even social outcastes, will be more prone to physiological as well as psychological diseases, as well as having greater difficulty finding a mate).

Is it really based on mimicry ?..what about just personal taste ?


I am really trying to get to the nitty gritty of the biochemistry of it all.

Why is something from the seventies kitsch ?..why is it cheesy ?......although flares have had some revival recently I put that down to a fad rather than a fashion.......

...and yet something like a jaguar E type is always beautiful (in My opinion and generally )........There is a fundamental bio-chemistry happening here !

The behaviour I understand....the biology I do not !
 

another_someone

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« Reply #10 on: 23/03/2007 19:44:03 »
Why is something from the seventies kitsch ?..why is it cheesy ?......although flares have had some revival recently I put that down to a fad rather than a fashion.......

...and yet something like a jaguar E type is always beautiful (in My opinion and generally )........There is a fundamental bio-chemistry happening here !

The behaviour I understand....the biology I do not !

Are we actually talking about the same thing (although, personally, I much prefer the S type to the MKII - I find the E Type (at least in retrospect) a bit OTT)?

There are some things that are fashions of the moment, where tribes of humans all follow the same fashion, and all do the same thing at the same time.  Then there is the more timeless beauty, the thing that (whether they may have once been a fashion or not) are not something that thousands or millions of people do (how many people would drive an E type today, no matter that they might appreciate its apparent virtues - it is simply something they would appreciate from a distance, but not feel they would want one as a part of their life).  Clearly, there are a few who do continue to keep E Types as a part of their live, but they are a minority, and so cannot be regarded in any contemporary sense to be following a fashion.

Curiously enough, I've always had a soft spot for the crude simplicity of something like the 2CV6, or the Beetle - although I don't say that I would like to own one.

As for the biochemistry, whether it is mediated by dopamine, or serotonin, or whatever else - is interesting to ask, but I have no idea about any answers.
 

Offline neilep

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« Reply #11 on: 23/03/2007 20:18:24 »
Agreed about the beetle and 2cv.

I am talking from a style perspective when I cite the E type...but it was just one out a million things I could have chosen when I was suggesting about the timelessness of certain designs............and when I say timeless I don't mean the trend of the day  as far as that years model I mean that the lines and style and finesse of it retain a sense of charisma for many years !!..where as........something like having three ducks on the wall (for me) does not !
 

another_someone

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« Reply #12 on: 23/03/2007 21:15:32 »
I am trying to work out what it is you are asking.

It seems to be not so much about about fashion itself as about what makes something iconic of an era, and why is one era more exciting in its fashion than another.

Ofcourse, a lot of this is subjective (as you point out, the E type does something fir you, but not necessarily for everybody else), but I also think in a wider sense, the 60s was a time of optimism, a time when, in MacMillan's words, we had never had it so good.  That optimism was expressed in the styles of the day (not least, with the advent of the miniskirt when women dared when in other times they might have become more sombre and withdrawn).  Maybe the E Type was merely the phallic symbol that went with the miniskirt (it was certainly the right shape for it)?

I don't know how the Americans view the 70s, but over here they were a time remembered for the miners' strike, and the 3 day week, and nobody remembers that time as a time of optimism, and none of the fashions of the day really reflect very much optimism.  I doubt that the fashions of the 00s will be remembered for anything significant, because today also we do not live in a time of optimism.  The fashions of the 00s seem to be somewhere between bland and extremely sombre and pessimistic.
« Last Edit: 23/03/2007 21:17:55 by another_someone »
 

Offline neilep

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« Reply #13 on: 23/03/2007 21:25:51 »
LOL..Goergie.....you know !!..it serves me right to continue a dialogue when i am starved of slumberland and torpid joy !

Perchance that I find some sleep tonight that I may be more coherent tomorrow.

I see a pattern here.. I tend to start ' heavy duty ' threads when I am at my most tired........weariness fuels my curiosity !

At this time....I am more interested in the physical biology that occurs in a person that predisposes the want of a style or a fashion. I suspect it's more than just a state of mind but something more fundamental that is happening in the brain that creates a fondness for a type of thing ?....



 

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« Reply #14 on: 23/03/2007 21:33:37 »
Far be it for me to keep you from your Slumberland (will we get prosecuted for abuse of trademark or is it actually a Slumberland? :)).

So what you are asking seems to be much less about trends as such, as about personal taste essentially, the same sort of question as why one man finds a particular woman sexy, while another man might find some very different woman sexy; except here we move from women to motor cars.
 

Offline neilep

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« Reply #15 on: 23/03/2007 21:58:21 »
I think it's a Sleepeasy !!...what ever it is.....it does not work !

I am still inquiring as to the ' hysteria ' element affording numbers on a grand scale .

What I think has happened here is that I know what the question is and either 1: I do not know how to ask it or 2: I can not communicate it adequately or 3: both !..........or you are being obdurate !!  ;D ;D and playing with my head !!  ;)
 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #16 on: 24/03/2007 06:41:49 »
LOL..Goergie.....you know !!..it serves me right to continue a dialogue when i am starved of slumberland and torpid joy !

Perchance that I find some sleep tonight that I may be more coherent tomorrow.

I see a pattern here.. I tend to start ' heavy duty ' threads when I am at my most tired........weariness fuels my curiosity !

At this time....I am more interested in the physical biology that occurs in a person that predisposes the want of a style or a fashion. I suspect it's more than just a state of mind but something more fundamental that is happening in the brain that creates a fondness for a type of thing ?....





I think I know kinda what you mean.. its not so much a fd with me but a type of style and motion I think I find in most all things I like , Like there is a pattern in my head that says those lines in say that car express how I feel in my mind about things I like , I like sleek smooth lines that flow , this applies to writing cars, clothing hair styles feelings, the way I feel inside toward others also. I like to see people . At first I can see them with all their ridgid sharp edges and points, very angular and defined, as I become more aware of a person, in my mind I look to soften those lines and characteristics that make that person whom some seem to see as hard and perhaps rough seem smoother more human and I begin to see the same pattern I see when I look at the sleek smooth curved lines in an old car for instance! And perhaps the newer boxier type I liked the older style and still do as they flowed and were smooth in their curves and they fit into my head in a more comfortable attractive way to me. Same can be said of literature I like a smooth flow of words and a story that flows along naturally  perhaps. It is not something that I just chose really its the way I se things, anyone who really noses me would recognize a certain flow in the things that I like or the things that make me happy or things that fit my inner style, and I think I came built with a style of myown inside, I feel like inside me all my lines are soft and sleek and smooth, I wouldn't know what to do if my insides felt sharp or edged or squared or anything like that.. OH poo I guess that probably does not make sense I like certain things because they flow a certain way in my mind when I see them they fit into my own Id so to speak they feel like they are a part of me flowing soft of emotion etc. etc. etc. I can't really explain.. I 'll shut up now, but it doe apply for me anyway as to my tastes in music, movies ambiance clothing, everything!!
 

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« Reply #16 on: 24/03/2007 06:41:49 »

 

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