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Author Topic: Tell me about Congestive heart failure/complications from stress and insomnia ?  (Read 91461 times)

Offline Karen W.

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OK what is going on??? LOL I guess I could have asked more specifically in the lab.. she made me come in today said immediately.. so I did..I should have asked.. I have not felt good for months literally months...

Okie dokie.. is this germ going to keep growing while i am waiting..she did not think it was an infection ..she said she did not know what it was..yet..
 

Offline iko

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Yes Karen,

They are probably closer than we think in solving the most difficult and intriguing clinical case of the week, month...may be year!

 

Offline Karen W.

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OK Iko, I called the lab.. these are the tests they ran yesterday

First one for thyroid I think! Second line I could not tell if it was part of the 1rst test or a seperate test on its own.. LOL!   2 or 3 tests..?

1= Thyroid Peroxidase (spelling)

2?=   Antinuclear Antibodies Direct (spelling) LOL

3= Sentimentation rate (Westergreen)is this the method
 

Offline iko

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OK Iko, I called the lab.. these are the tests they ran yesterday

First one for thyroid I think! Second line I could not tell if it was part of the 1rst test or a seperate test on its own.. LOL!   2 or 3 tests..?

1= Thyroid Peroxidase (spelling)

2?=   Antinuclear Antibodies Direct (spelling) LOL

3= Sentimentation rate (Westergreen)is this the method

3 = Sedimentation rate: the speed (mm/hour) of erythrocytes in anticoagulated blood (liquid, no clots) under gravity force.  Very old and aspecific test for inflammation/infection, still valid to suspect 'subacute endocarditis' and other ailments.


Red cells run down faster in those tubes if inflammation proteins and other factors in the liquid fraction of blood (plasma) make them stick together by tiny  electrical charges.
Normal speed should be less than 20mm/hour.
In this picture, samples 5-8-9 from left seem to be normal (after 1 hour)
« Last Edit: 14/06/2007 18:43:34 by iko »
 

Offline Karen W.

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Offline iko

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Erythrocyte sedimentation rate

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR), also called a sedimentation rate, sed rate or 'Biernacki Reaction', is a non-specific measure of inflammation that is commonly used as a medical screening test.

To perform the test, anticoagulated blood is placed in an upright tube, known as a Wintrobe tube and the rate at which the red blood cells fall is measured and reported in mm/h.

When an inflammatory process is present, the high proportion of fibrinogen in the blood causes red blood cells to stick to each other. The red cells form stacks called 'rouleaux' which settle faster. Rouleau formation can also occur in association with some lymphoproliferative disorders in which one or more immunoglobulins are secreted in high amounts. Rouleau formation is however a physiological finding in some equidae and can be as such in felidae and suidae species, namely the horse, cat and pig respectively.

The ESR is increased by any cause or focus of inflammation. The basal ESR is slightly higher in females.

History
This test was invented in 1897 by the Polish doctor Edmund Biernacki.[citation needed] In 1918 the Swedish pathologist Robin Fhrus declared the same. Fhrus is still known as the inventor of ESR in the Western world although Fhrus accepted that he wasn't the first[citation needed].

Uses
Although it is frequently ordered, the erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR) is not a useful screening test. It is only useful for diagnosing three diseases: myeloma, temporal arteritis and polymyalgia rheumatica (in which it may exceed 100 mm/hour).

It is commonly used for a differential diagnosis for Kawasaki's Disease and it may be increased in some chronic infective conditions like tuberculosis and infective endocarditis. It is a component of the PDCAI, an index for assessment of severity of inflammatory bowel disease in children.

The clinical usefulness of erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR) is limited to monitoring the response to therapy in certain inflammatory diseases such as temporal arteritis, polymyalgia rheumatica, rheumatoid arthritis. It can also be used as a crude measure of response in Hodgkin's disease.

The use of the ESR as a screening test in asymptomatic persons is limited by its low sensitivity and specificity. When there is a moderate suspicion of disease, the ESR may have some value as a "sickness index."

An elevated ESR in the absence of other findings should NOT trigger an extensive laboratory or radiographic evaluation.

Normal Values
Note: mm/hr. = millimeters per hour.

Adults (Westergren method):

Men under 50 years old: less than 15 mm/hr.
Men over 50 years old: less than 20 mm/hr.
Women under 50 years old: less than 20 mm/hr.
Women over 50 years old: less than 30 mm/hr.
It is increased in states of anemia.
Children (Westergren method):

Newborn: 0 to 2 mm/hr.
Neonatal to puberty: 3 to 13 mm/hr.

more from:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythrocyte_sedimentation_rate

« Last Edit: 15/06/2007 21:33:09 by iko »
 

Offline Karen W.

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Hey Iko something I was noticing that occurred to me when she was drawing my blood..LOL this sounds silly but why has my blood changed colors lately? It has gone from being a nice red to being this very dark almost brown looking color.. The lab women says she doesn't know why, but she notices that very active patients have redder blood draws, and inactive patients have darker blood... does it have to do with oxygenation?
« Last Edit: 14/06/2007 21:57:31 by Karen W. »
 

Offline iko

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Hi Karen,

blood drawn from arteries is bright red because of oxygen,
while venous blood is dark red for less oxygen.
Sometimes it's darker 'cause venous blood flow has been
reduced too much and for too long by the elastic strap searchin'
for the "invisible tiny little vein"...in this case even
your arm becomes bluish (cianotic)!
I'm not aware of any disease diagnosed by the colour of blood.
I feel sooooo ignorant.
And overdose of cod liver oil doesn't help much!
Cheers,

ikod   ;)
« Last Edit: 19/06/2007 15:27:24 by iko »
 

Offline Karen W.

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I was just curious.. not because of a disease..LOL Only that often it is a different color she did say it was a small vein but it was working fine so she did not want to poke me again. LOL I appreciate that! There was big ones but this one popped up better. That makes much more since about which vein the blood came from.. The last draw had been a big vein.  Thanks Iko..LOL
 

Offline Karen W.

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OK..Doctor said my thyroid was down significantly lower so she has upped my Levoxyl from 0.125MG to 0.15MG.. I took the first one of those today. I have to go back wed. to discuss the thyroid goiter they found and seeing yet another cardiologist..someone new.. there are two here! She is consulting with Them again.. so I don't know what's next.. Thursday I am going to see the physical therapist to be fitted with some nasty tight leggings that are going to squeeze the water out of me...LOL For reducing swelling ..

Iko.. is there a difference in hypothyroidism and graves disease...I know my thyroid doesn't produce a certain hormone or something.. might be that TSH or TH something.. I am not sure.. I have always let the Doctors handle the Doctoring but now I am concerned.. they did not have records of some of the meds I was taking which The Doctor prescribed over the last 8 months.. Then she up and left the clinic..good thing I had my prescription information..LOL She did not write things in the files apparently, at least not where we can find them.. LOL...New Doctor seems to be more thorough! I like that.. she seems to be listening.. LOL.. We will see.

One more thing what the heck is a goiter??? Is it a tumor or something on my thyroid.. I do not understand it..
 

Offline iko

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Hi Karen,

hypothyroidism is the opposite of HYPERthyroidism (Graves' disease).

In HYPOthyroidism the gland produces little or no hormones for various reasons and your whole metabolisrm is heavily affected. Fortunately it's enough you take some pill of hormone every day to fix it.

HYPERthyroidism is more dangerous. I cut&paste a recent 'masterpiece' by Chris, you may have read it.

This is thyrotoxicosis, an excess of circulating thyroid hormone (thyroxine). In this case the cause is Graves Disease, which is associated with the production of an antibody that triggers the thyroid to over-produce thyroxine.

Thyroxine determines metabolic rate and potentiates the action of adrenaline and adrenaline-like chemicals. Excess thyroxine causes tachycardia (fast heart rate) and arrhythmias (irregular heart rate), high blood pressure, intolerance of heat, increased appetite, weight loss, and proximal muscle wasting.

The secretion of thyroxine is under the control of the brain's pituitary gland, which releases a chemical called TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone). This is part of a negative feedback loop: TSH stimulates the thyroid to release thyroxine, which then shuts off the supply of TSH from the brain.

Occasionally, and more often in women, the body produces an auto-antibody that can bind to and activate the TSH receptor on cells in the thyroid. This bypasses the usual TSH control of thyroxine production and results in very low or undetectable TSH levels, because the excessive thyroxine in the blood stream shuts off TSH secretion. This is an important test to do because it rules out a problem with the pituitary (such as a tumour) producing too much TSH as the cause of the hyperthyroidism.

There are several ways to manage Graves Disease. The favoured option is known as block and replace. Patients are given an anti-thyroid drug known as carbimazole (or an alternative thyro-static called propylthiouracil), which suppress thyroxine production. This is continued for 6-9 months (with monitoring of thyroxine and supplementation where required).

The suppression is then withdrawn; in a number of patients the condition seems to abate. If several rounds of suppressive therapy fail then radio-iodine is given to ablate the thyroid, and the patient is given exogenenous thyroxine to take by mouth to maintain correct levels (using the TSH level to check whether they are being adequately medicated).

Chris
« Last Edit: 17/06/2007 11:39:01 by iko »
 

Offline Karen W.

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Thanks Iko.. I thought it was different then mine.. Thanks and that's a great piece BTW!
 

Offline iko

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Thanks Iko.. I thought it was different then mine.. Thanks and that's a great piece BTW!


http://static.fotolia.com/photos_mini/2006-32/110_F_1049437_AQaPV7IXQjYNyROzozIPV69SQNyRlZ.jpg

It would be nice to know from your doctors if your past mini-stroke had been caused by aortic valve infection, subacute endocarditis or what...
Did you get any information, I mean, more consistent and specific about it?
I know that for certain type of germs blood cultures take 2-3 weeks, but still...
Take care,

ikod
« Last Edit: 17/06/2007 13:43:17 by iko »
 

Offline Karen W.

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the two or three last blood tests were just done that I listed above last week.so this is one week.. she is not talking to me much about tests yet.. being all hush hush and saying we don't know whats causing the enlarged heart.. she did say she did not think it was a infection, but we would have to wait for the other tests.. and she wants me to see the other doctor first. She also said she doesn't want to put me on any more meds for the swelling in my feet and in my hands my knees and legs and tummybasicly evreywhere! LOL Lower extremities are worse..

She said, aortic sclerosis..thickening and hardening of the Aortic valve.. I tried to read some about it.. there are lots of sites with basic information.. she said they were surprised to see it because it is something generally seen in a seventy year old not a 46 year old.. so I am not sure what that means.. She is talking more then my other doctor did but still evasive at this point!

Nothing yet. Although she did say My carotid ultra sound was good.. deja vu I already told you that huh??? Sorry I seem to repeat myself a lot lately..No clogged or blocked Arteries.. :) Wednesday is my appointment at 2:00 she said we would discus further the blood tests as well as the two cardiologists, and then Thursday Physical therapy!  I will let you know Iko...Thank you so very much.. you have helped me deal with this better then I was.. LOL I must say.. I am pretty damn scared... ..I don't guess things could get much worse then what they are..well maybe they can.. but I hope not.. I can't hardly sleep anymore.. Just to nervous,, keep wondering if I am going to open my eyes and see the morning... .. I am not sure how I am feeling about that..I guess it is all part of not knowing eh??  7:00 am and I am still awake..

 Looks like a pretty day... Happy Fathers day Iko.. That is if you celebrate it!.. Have a good day anyway!.....Talk soon..
 

Offline iko

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Hey Karen,

we said you needed to RELAX, didn't we?
And here you overwork, plus the other 4life forum, plus who knows what...
I never asked you when you started having insomnia, lack of sleep.
I cannot put together the history of your left arm/shoulder ache.
Did you have various pains in your joints in the recent past, problems of
uhm...diarrhea from time to time?
Ops! this will keep you awake for another couple of days!
Sorry, but I have my colleague Gregory on the phone and...
he'd like to know these details, don't know why.

ikod  ;D
 

Offline Karen W.

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Hey Karen,

we said you needed to RELAX, didn't we?
And here you overwork, plus the other 4life forum, plus who knows what...
I never asked you when you started having insomnia, lack of sleep.
I cannot put together the history of your left arm/shoulder ache.
Did you have various pains in your joints in the recent past, problems of
uhm...diarrhea from time to time?
Ops! this will keep you awake for another couple of days!
Sorry, but I have my colleague Gregory on the phone and...
he'd like to know these details, don't know why.

ikod  ;D






Well Pain in arm has been off and on for several years, just got very intense on that Friday and Saturday.. was so weird.. I had had that butterfly creepy feeling spread up the back of my spine into my shoulders, then my arm just ached like crazy... then it would subside.. until I moved it a certain way. then boom all over again.. If I bend down and come up after having walked or climbed the stairs that feeling starts at the base of my spine and moves up into my neck and across my shoulder blades.
It's funny I have mostly had constipation for a long time years, but now not so much but do have kind of an irritable tummy sometimes upset or stress seem to give me  diarrhea not always but sometimes..

Iko The pain in my arm is also started by lifting quite light items, or no items at all just lifting the arm.. can't raise it much above my shoulder.. in 1997 I thought I jammed it and went to the doctor I had taken a regular Garden hoe, and hammered it flat as I was ripping out old linoleum by myself.. and had know way to get it off the floor it was glued down. so with the hoe flat I was able to use it as a scrapping tool, a few times I hit a nail really hard and hurt my shoulder over about two days, then my arm acted up in a huge way.. same pain same place I went to the doctor he gave me an sheet of paper to exercise  to strengthen it.. over several month it got some better but then began hurting again I had gained a lot of weight. I then started working on my weight... after about 6o lbs off the arm stopped hurting YAYYYYYYYY.. It was January or so it hit again like a brick.. very painful.. I was dealing with a lot of stress and not feeling good from all of this crud the swelling was worse everywhere and the pain in my arm also..I also have a right hip problem it always aches like it is out of joint not always but it comes and goes also!..
Anyway the arm is really bad when I move it out from my side out away from my body to the side not forward I can swing it forward and backwards while walking, but not out to the side or up over my head to take my clothes off. cant unzip my side zipper on my dress on the left side.. it hurts too much. when I try It snaps and makes a snapping nose followed by excruciating pain.. I can't explain.. it is not the join of my elbow or my shoulder joint popping. it is in between the shoulder and the space at my elbow. so mid way in my arm..4 inches down approximately from my shoulder joint  I don't know if that helps or not! about three inches up from the elbow joint.. I must say for the first time that Friday and Saturday it had gotten worse and the pain traveled down into my elbow and actually felt as if it jumped through a nerve into my upper left leg momentarily then that part went away..
« Last Edit: 17/06/2007 20:39:44 by Karen W. »
 

Offline Karen W.

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Hey Karen,

we said you needed to RELAX, didn't we?
And here you overwork, plus the other 4life forum, plus who knows what...
I never asked you when you started having insomnia, lack of sleep.
I cannot put together the history of your left arm/shoulder ache.
Did you have various pains in your joints in the recent past, problems of
uhm...diarrhea from time to time?
Ops! this will keep you awake for another couple of days!
Sorry, but I have my colleague Gregory on the phone and...
he'd like to know these details, don't know why.

ikod  ;D



I have had some trouble with sleep since I was a kid.. not near as badly as now.. Its the getting to sleep first then once I am I wake up like within 2 to 4and 1/2 hours.. LOL.. Sometimes I have that antsy leg problem when "your feet just can't keep still...." I believe its restless leg..but not positive.. doctor and I discussed several years ago and then no more.. LOL..feels like the blood is racing in my legs and nothing helps but some exercise of the muscles and then I can usually go back and finally get to sleep.. this however is rare and not a all the time thing! It comes and goes.. Some medicines seem to do it.. set it off, but it has been years I can't remember which med it was that made me feel like that in my legs.. it went away when I didn't take the meds... It was something they had given me in the Hospital.. I can't remember what.. too long ago..
 

Offline Karen W.

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Still not sure what they are going to do.. changed my medicines again upped them to 9 again 1 should be just temporary.. YAYYYYY! A new Betta Blocker I haven't taken she said it will regulate the heart beat.. something like that! Pain meds etc.. so that's good which means they may make all the ouchies go away pain wise and that in and of itself will be really good! Turns out they have been treating my thyroid for several years only to find out they never tested to see why I had hypothyroidism and they ran new tests and found I tested positive for Hashimoto's Disease..So they want more tests there also, as I have the goiter, and have had some difficulty swallowing plain water and liquid LUFF as Neil would put it! LOL GOOD NEWS IS NO RADIATION for the Goiter at this junction so that is good..Have to go have a MRI For my left shoulder and arm.. to look further into that to see if it is stroke related or something wrong in the arm! I tried to get it looked at a couple years ago the first time I had that kind of pain there as I thought I may have hurt it.. the doctor wouldn't look further then his eyes and gave me the standard hand and arm exercise to build the muscle and strengthen it around where it hurt.. LOL nothing to address the cause of the hurt just treat the symptom!..I feel better I was positive and assertive and when she said we will wait until everything else is done! I said I want you to look at it now! Cause if it is hurt or damaged I want it fixed not just covering the symptoms.. she said ok.. this is what we can do..LOL  So MRI right away.. If they can clear that up too then I is going to be much happier without that pain in my arm..LOL Makes it hard to be cheery when you feel like crud! well I guess I have POSTED!!!! LOL Sorry everyone...but MY MOUTH DOTH RUNNETH OVER ONCE AGAIN! Goodnight all!

I will start a new antidepressant in two weeks and we will see if it works to control my YOYO emotions... I sure hope so!! "CRY ME A RIVER, CRY ME A RIVER, AND I'LL CRY A RIVER OVER YOU!!" That SONG was written for ME. YOU know! LOL

I reposted this here cause I am so tired..

Went t the physical therapist and she is doing some sort of pressure wrap on my legs tomorrow noon. They will be for the weekend and I will not be able to remove them till Monday! I cannot wear shoes right now because of the swelling. I tried like a crazy women to get them on and to no avail.. so on with my sandals! She thinks my aorta problems are coming from Hashimotos .. we will see. She said nothing about my blood tests although she did change meds.. so I ordered copies of my records.. so I can scan my blood results and let you see..How's that sound!

Iko THanks so much.. You have been wonderful..I have been reading up on all this stuff, but I must say I don't understand all of it,, there are a lot of things to take in. seems they are still not sure about diagnosis!
 

Offline Karen W.

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Hi IKo this is what we did at physical therapy Thursday and Friday.. my legs are still extremely swollen as are my ankles I can barely see my kneecaps lately and my ankles are darn near the same size.. she wants to try this weird wrap for 4 days to reduce the swelling and then she has had special compression stockings made for me as my legs are not your typical twiggy legs.. LOL  I am on my back feet up above my heart most all day except going somewhere.. I am walking in between and exercising the ankle and foot every hour on the hour while I am awake.. Have you ever seen this done.. She said she would like to try this before she puts me on more diuretics.. as so far they are not working! She wants to try wholistic first...The thing is I cannot spend as many hours in this position as she wants me to do! I am taking 4 days to do it and am on leave of absence for at least 12 weeks.. so sept 1.. I hope to heck they can figure out what the heck is wrong with me.. here is the picture with my new moon boots as I can no longer wear my shoes.. None of them! Sorry bout the ugly legs guys!..
* I have now removed my terribly swollen legs from Public view..* LOL Only here for a short visit! I will replace it with a smile instead!



« Last Edit: 02/07/2007 02:53:06 by Karen W. »
 

Offline iko

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Hi Karen,

I am sorry that you have to go through all these troubles.
Legs can swell in hours, but it takes a long time to get rid of extra fluids!
You certainly are behaving like a good patient and following all the instructions...you should move your legs too, as much as you can, to let some circulation work and avoid fluids and blood retention.  A couple of enjoyable books and a wise 'switch off' for your PC would help, in my personal opinion.  Healing takes time.
I cannot say anything about your diagnosis, I am not an experienced clinician, and data seem to be uncomplete so far.  I'm getting confused: we started with 'blood infection' and ended up with thyroid inflammation and malfunction.
It's a common problem though ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashimoto's_thyroiditis )
and so you have plenty of knowledge available for this and remedies ready to use.
Unfortunately, like in many other medical conditions, we don't know the cause.
You probably  had your thyroid hormones tested and you are taking the right pills.
My only suggestion is to stop any other type of integrators-supplement-herbal who knows what 'innocent' and 'natural' stuff, to let treatments work fine without mysterious surprises or side effects. Standard treatments work in standard conditions.
Only cod liver oil (but you don't need it!) and Vitamins (especially B1) are allowed!
We'll keep in touch. Take care.

ikod

« Last Edit: 24/06/2007 08:43:30 by iko »
 

Offline Karen W.

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Hi Karen,

I am sorry that you have to go through all these troubles.
Legs can swell in hours, but it takes a long time to get rid of extra fluids!
You certainly are behaving like a good patient and following all the instructions...you should move your legs too, as much as you can, to let some circulation work and avoid fluids and blood retention.  A couple of enjoyable books and a wise 'switch off' for your PC would help, in my personal opinion.  Healing takes time.
I cannot say anything about your diagnosis, I am not an experienced clinician, and data seem to be incomplete so far.  I'm getting cofused: we started with 'blood infection' and ended up with thyroid inflammation and malfunction.
It's a common problem though ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashimoto's_thyroiditis )
and so you have plenty of knowledge available for this and remedies ready to use.
Unfortunately, like in many other medical conditions, we don't know the cause.
You probably  had your thyroid hormones tested and you are taking the right pills.
My only suggestion is to stop any other type of integrators-supplement-herbal who knows what 'innocent' and 'natural' stuff, to let treatments work fine without mysterious surprises or side effects. Standard treatments work in standard conditions.
Only cod liver oil (but you don't need it!) and Vitamins (especially B1) are allowed!
We'll keep in touch. Take care.

ikod



I did everything I was supposed to today and have had my feet up LOts and I went to town again even after being accosted there yesterday by some nut case tweeker strung out on drugs! Well I went to the bay today and took pictures, went to the river and tried to walk down a rather trecherous embankment to take more pictures, but could not scale the rocks it was too steep and slippery dirt rocks etc.. so I took pictures of the flowers bushes a vulture in  a tree that I accidently frightened when I came upon him feasting from the remains of something amongst the trees at the river.. I climbed a retaining wall to no avail, trying to find a less steep access.. ..took a couple pictures of a house in blue lake I love.. bought a book to read a new phone yesterday so I could read the site while lying down..Humm had a big hamburger I shouldn't have eaten and now I can't sleep!...I am taking more pictures tomorrow! did a lot of walking today as well as laying down..

Thanks Iko .. You have helped me be more calm... and some less nervous..They are confusing me too. so I am just listening and trying to take some notes and writing questions down..I will go read that article before I try to sleep again!

Have a good Day Iko! I love all those clowns you have been posting and different faces very cool! Kitties too.. I think I might go adopt a new kitty! I miss my old cat a lot!

No worries I am not taking any other suppliments including my old zeta caps haven't for quite a while.. I was thinking about it but not right now with all the meds ..I have enough to swallow!..LOL And It hurts to swallow anyway!~ LOL The doctor did put me on omega 3 fish oil caps is that anything close to cod liver oil?
« Last Edit: 24/06/2007 08:49:32 by Karen W. »
 

Offline iko

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Yap!

Fish oil is rich of nice omega-3 fatty acids
so good for a lot of things...not too much of
vitamin A and D that could accumulate and be
toxic in the long run.
Our brain and little vessels seem to enjoy omega-3!
Cheers

ikod

« Last Edit: 24/06/2007 09:34:13 by iko »
 

Offline Karen W.

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Thank you Iko! LOL.. Where's LO I bet she will like your penguin catching the fishie for dinner! LOL!
 

Offline Karen W.

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OK IKO, My MRI is scheduled for tomorrow at 12:45 PM. My sleep study for 6:00 PM tomorrow night! I will let you know when I find out more!
 

Offline iko

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OK IKO, My MRI is scheduled for tomorrow at 12:45 PM. My sleep study for 6:00 PM tomorrow night! I will let you know when I find out more!

Good luck!
Please let us know asap(good news!)

ikod
« Last Edit: 13/07/2007 15:45:31 by iko »
 

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