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Author Topic: Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?  (Read 10611 times)

Offline neilep

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This is a chiwawa:



This is a Great Dane and another Chiwawa:



This is an Old English Sheep dog:




This is a bunch of Peeps:



Notice how all the Peeps look very similar in stature and build etc ?


Why are there more varieties on such a grand scale of canines  (and other animals like bears, primates)....than there are humans ?...or perhaps my question should be...why are there less varieties on a grand scale of humans than there are other types of animal ?
« Last Edit: 11/04/2007 03:30:48 by neilep »


 

Offline JimBob

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I guess Samuel (Peeps, that is - I know, it's Peyps) like the same type of women and only, how do I say it, propagated, his line with very similar looking women.
 

Offline Karen W.

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I don't know Is that a shot from one of your wedding fayres?
 

another_someone

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One explanation I have heard is because dogs have more chromosomes to play with, so can have more combinations of genes to mix up.

But, at least as much of an issue is that dog breeds are totally artificial - we deliberately inbreed dogs with certain characteristics to develop the different breeds.  We do not in general implement the same deliberate breeding programs to create the same variety of human breeds.

Dogs, if left to their own natural breeding habits will revert to all being something like wolves or dingos.
 

Offline BillJx

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 - we deliberately inbreed dogs with certain characteristics to develop the different breeds.  We do not in general implement the same deliberate breeding programs to create the same variety of human breeds.

Dogs, if left to their own natural breeding habits will revert to all being something like wolves or dingos.

To start with an intelligent, competent animal and deliberately breed it in such a way as to render it unfit to be anything but a living toy, I think is a crime of arrogance.
 

another_someone

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To start with an intelligent, competent animal and deliberately breed it in such a way as to render it unfit to be anything but a living toy, I think is a crime of arrogance.

It depends on the dog.  A rotweiler or a sheepdog is bred as a working dog, and certainly not merely a toy (maybe a slave, but not a toy).

But then, selective breeding is not only something we do for dogs - we do the same for cattle, sheep, and numerous other species of animals (even the European honey bee has been selectively bred).
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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- we deliberately inbreed dogs with certain characteristics to develop the different breeds.  We do not in general implement the same deliberate breeding programs to create the same variety of human breeds.

Dogs, if left to their own natural breeding habits will revert to all being something like wolves or dingos.

To start with an intelligent, competent animal and deliberately breed it in such a way as to render it unfit to be anything but a living toy, I think is a crime of arrogance.

Arrogance or not; so long as the animal is happy & well looked after, that's all that matters.

Seeing a border collie shepherding or a Rottweiller rounding up cattle is a joy to behold. OK, so they were deliberately bred; but you will never see happier animals than those 2 breeds when they're working.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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OK, ignoring the problem of defining "happy" for non human species, there are some breeds of dogs that have been taken to such extremes that they are prone to various diseases. That's criminal if you ask me.
BTW, the cattle are working too; how happy are they to be chased by a rottweiler?
 

Offline daveshorts

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Basically dogs have been very strongly bred for their physical characteristics. If you just let very tall people breed with other very tall people, you would quite quickly get a race of very tall people.

Whether you could get the variation of size you can with dogs, I am not sure, because humans are genetically very uniform - I think there is more genetic variation in mountain gorrillas than humans - so there is a lot less diversity to work with than in a wolf, so you probably couldn't push humans as far with selective breeding - essentially we are a very highly bread hominid breed that has been selected for a large brain.
 

another_someone

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OK, ignoring the problem of defining "happy" for non human species, there are some breeds of dogs that have been taken to such extremes that they are prone to various diseases. That's criminal if you ask me.

I would suggest that defining 'happy' for non-human species is no more difficult that defining 'happy' for a 4 month old child, and it is scarcely easier to define 'happy' even for an adult.

One thing we can at least say is that when an animal is clearly sufferring, we tend to put it out of its misery - something we refuse to do for humans.

As for whether it is right to unnecessarily inbreed dogs that are particularly prone to some illnesses - in general, (although I would not use the word criminal - since that is a word with a very precise meaning) I would agree that I am uncomfortable with the idea, but there are many analogous (although not identical) questions that can be applied to human experience too.

BTW, the cattle are working too; how happy are they to be chased by a rottweiler?

Probably the same way that a child feels when it is angrily told to go to school (bear in mind that the dogs do not physically harm the animals they are herding, any more than a decent parent physically harms its child).
 

Offline neilep

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #10 on: 11/04/2007 13:27:02 »
I guess Samuel (Peeps, that is - I know, it's Peyps) like the same type of women and only, how do I say it, propagated, his line with very similar looking women.


How he managed to woo women, write a diary and single handedly extinguish the fire of London is worthy of BIG respect !!
 

Offline neilep

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #11 on: 11/04/2007 13:29:31 »
I don't know Is that a shot from one of your wedding fayres?

yes it is !!..can't ewe see all the brides and wedding cakes ?...LOL...no ..it's just some piccy of a crowd I found !!

wedding fayres are a little more discrete with all fluffy wedding stufff all over the place !!
 

Offline neilep

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #12 on: 11/04/2007 13:36:17 »
One explanation I have heard is because dogs have more chromosomes to play with, so can have more combinations of genes to mix up.

But, at least as much of an issue is that dog breeds are totally artificial - we deliberately inbreed dogs with certain characteristics to develop the different breeds.  We do not in general implement the same deliberate breeding programs to create the same variety of human breeds.

Dogs, if left to their own natural breeding habits will revert to all being something like wolves or dingos.

Thank Ewe for this George.

Any ideas what the ratio is to pure breeds to ' artificial' ones are ?

I assume there must be a ' foundation template' of a few thoroughbreds ?

Could the ratio be as high as i think it might ?.(Wild guestimate 80:20)........in that I expect there to be far more ' manufactured ' breeds than thoroughbreds !!......but what about other types of multi-variety animal ?
« Last Edit: 11/04/2007 13:43:29 by neilep »
 

Offline neilep

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #13 on: 11/04/2007 13:42:14 »
OK, ignoring the problem of defining "happy" for non human species, there are some breeds of dogs that have been taken to such extremes that they are prone to various diseases. That's criminal if you ask me.
BTW, the cattle are working too; how happy are they to be chased by a rottweiler?

There is no doubt that there are types of dog that are  bred for the cosmetic fancy of their owners.....and often to the detriment of the dog itself. I can not remember the breeds but there are some that can barely walk as their legs are so short, they can barely breathe...........they can barely do anything except be an ornate adoration.
« Last Edit: 11/04/2007 13:44:05 by neilep »
 

paul.fr

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #14 on: 11/04/2007 13:59:00 »
pink poodles...what are they all about?
 

another_someone

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #15 on: 11/04/2007 14:17:07 »
Any ideas what the ratio is to pure breeds to ' artificial' ones are ?

I assume there must be a ' foundation template' of a few thoroughbreds ?

Could the ratio be as high as i think it might ?.(Wild guestimate 80:20)........in that I expect there to be far more ' manufactured ' breeds than thoroughbreds !!......but what about other types of multi-variety animal ?

As far as I am aware, there is only one natural breed of dog, and that is the wolf, and everything else is an artificial breed.

Clearly, there is some variety amongst wolves, but none of that variety directly correlates to a modern breed of dog.

Trying to find a natural breed dog is like trying to find a natural breed of cow - no domestic animal is ultimately natural.
 

Offline neilep

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #16 on: 11/04/2007 14:26:49 »
Any ideas what the ratio is to pure breeds to ' artificial' ones are ?

I assume there must be a ' foundation template' of a few thoroughbreds ?

Could the ratio be as high as i think it might ?.(Wild guestimate 80:20)........in that I expect there to be far more ' manufactured ' breeds than thoroughbreds !!......but what about other types of multi-variety animal ?

As far as I am aware, there is only one natural breed of dog, and that is the wolf, and everything else is an artificial breed.

Clearly, there is some variety amongst wolves, but none of that variety directly correlates to a modern breed of dog.

Trying to find a natural breed dog is like trying to find a natural breed of cow - no domestic animal is ultimately natural.

Have you met my wife ?
 

Offline elegantlywasted

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #17 on: 11/04/2007 15:26:35 »
English Bulldogs cannot breed naturally anymore. Their bodies do not allow for the actual act to take place, and because their heads have been designed to be so large they can only be delivered by C-Section.
 

Offline Seany

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #18 on: 11/04/2007 16:01:42 »
Hmm, not so long ago, there was an article on the newspaper on this. Darn, I forgot to read it though  :P
 

Offline Karen W.

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #19 on: 11/04/2007 16:13:13 »
I don't know Is that a shot from one of your wedding fayres?

yes it is !!..can't ewe see all the brides and wedding cakes ?...LOL...no ..it's just some piccy of a crowd I found !!

wedding fayres are a little more discrete with all fluffy wedding stufff all over the place !!

Thats alot of people wherever it is!
 

Offline Karen W.

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #20 on: 11/04/2007 16:20:35 »
pink poodles...what are they all about?

Hey there was this Lady, when I was a kid she lived in Eureka by the sequoia park,..She lived in a pink and white singlewide trailer house well kept very clean, with a little white short pickette fence around her yard. She owned a , I kid you not pink poodle who was well groomed with hot pink bows on each ear. Pink rhinestone studded color and leash. She drove a nice big Pink catalac and get this dyed her own hair pink to match her dogs pink hair.. I used to love to see her so much.. I was sad when she either died or moved, I was young so I don't know what happened I thought she was too cool!! LOL Always smilen and always so friendly! I loved her !! LOL
 

another_someone

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #21 on: 11/04/2007 16:35:07 »
I don't know Is that a shot from one of your wedding fayres?

yes it is !!..can't ewe see all the brides and wedding cakes ?...LOL...no ..it's just some piccy of a crowd I found !!

wedding fayres are a little more discrete with all fluffy wedding stufff all over the place !!

Thats alot of people wherever it is!

Three brand names visible in the shot are Fairlight, B&H, and EAW.

Fairlight is into audio-visual equipment, and the other two are audio companies.  Fairlight and B&H are both Australian companies.

Thus I would suspect it is an audio-visual exhibition somewhere in Australia - but that conclusion must be regarded as speculative.
 

Offline that mad man

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #22 on: 11/04/2007 20:10:11 »
Pink poodles and an audio fair................cant resist!

In a Noel Coward double entendre stylee.


I'd love to be a pink poodle in panties,
and get stroked by my friends all day,
a lovely pink poodle in panties,
I wouldn't want it any other way,

With a diamond collar round my neck,
and a matrix by my side
playing with my bone,
that is sometimes hard to hide,

I'd love to be a pink poodle in panties
and play with my friends all day.

 :o

TMM

 

Offline neilep

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #23 on: 11/04/2007 20:20:44 »
Pink poodles and an audio fair................cant resist!

In a Noel Coward double entendre stylee.


I'd love to be a pink poodle in panties,
and get stroked by my friends all day,
a lovely pink poodle in panties,
I wouldn't want it any other way,

With a diamond collar round my neck,
and a matrix by my side
playing with my bone,
that is sometimes hard to hide,

I'd love to be a pink poodle in panties
and play with my friends all day.

 :o

TMM



QUALITY !!!
 

Offline Carolyn

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #24 on: 11/04/2007 20:21:03 »
Pink poodles and an audio fair................cant resist!

In a Noel Coward double entendre stylee.


I'd love to be a pink poodle in panties,
and get stroked by my friends all day,
a lovely pink poodle in panties,
I wouldn't want it any other way,

With a diamond collar round my neck,
and a matrix by my side
playing with my bone,
that is sometimes hard to hide,

I'd love to be a pink poodle in panties
and play with my friends all day.

 :o

TMM



Haha.  Nice! ;D
 

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Why are we (humans) not as varied in shape and size like dogs ?
« Reply #24 on: 11/04/2007 20:21:03 »

 

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