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paul.fr

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« Reply #25 on: 11/04/2007 15:33:07 »
quote
Hang on Paul.. a HOST for the Dna? So why does the DNA want to carry on? Again, we are back to square 1. Let's say that we are just ONE Dna? Why does the DNA want to carry on living?
end quote

ok, very quickly and off the top of my head.

what is the purpose of the DNA and why once it has made more does it allow you some extra free will, why does it not want you to live for ever so it can make even more of itself.

think of the DNA as the royal family, what is the purpose of the King, Queen or ruling monarch? to make the next king, going around opening fetes and having nice banquites is all well and good but the main purpose is to carry on the blood line.

this is what the DNA is doing, it knows that "we" as a host are not perfect and succeptable to desease and infection but it is the best it has. once you have done your royal duty and made the next generation of DNA it's job is done.



controversial note here and not my opinions just a quick thought.

If god was DNA and not some high being on anothe plain, this could be why homosexuality is frowned upon! no chance of making more DNA.
note i have gay friends...the above just makes sense if DNA was god

bath time...hoping for a eureka moment!
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #26 on: 11/04/2007 15:48:11 »
quote
Hang on Paul.. a HOST for the Dna? So why does the DNA want to carry on? Again, we are back to square 1. Let's say that we are just ONE Dna? Why does the DNA want to carry on living?
end quote

ok, very quickly and off the top of my head.

what is the purpose of the DNA and why once it has made more does it allow you some extra free will, why does it not want you to live for ever so it can make even more of itself.

think of the DNA as the royal family, what is the purpose of the King, Queen or ruling monarch? to make the next king, going around opening fetes and having nice banquites is all well and good but the main purpose is to carry on the blood line.

this is what the DNA is doing, it knows that "we" as a host are not perfect and succeptable to desease and infection but it is the best it has. once you have done your royal duty and made the next generation of DNA it's job is done.



controversial note here and not my opinions just a quick thought.

If god was DNA and not some high being on anothe plain, this could be why homosexuality is frowned upon! no chance of making more DNA.
note i have gay friends...the above just makes sense if DNA was god

bath time...hoping for a eureka moment!

Yes, but WHY does this "Royal Family" wish to keep this blood line going?

Yes, and I really hope you get a "Eureka" moment in there  :P
 

another_someone

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« Reply #27 on: 11/04/2007 15:54:04 »
Hang on Paul.. a HOST for the Dna? So why does the DNA want to carry on? Again, we are back to square 1. Let's say that we are just ONE Dna? Why does the DNA want to carry on living?

Ok then.. Sidetracking away from this.. What is the point in us being here. In us living? We all know that we are to die. One day. Is it really that we were sent down to look after "God's" creation?

Systems depend upon rules that govern their behaviour in order to sustain themselves.  The DNA contains the rules that govern the behaviour of the cells (note – when we are talking about multicellular organisms, it is the behaviour of the cells the govern rather than the behaviour of the total organism, although ofcourse the behaviour of the total organism is itself controlled by the cells that compose it).  In some ways, the information in the DNA can be seen to be to a cell what a body of law are to a country – the law is a necessity, but not a definition of a country.  Furthermore, a law book does not constitute the law itself, it is merely a form of physical storage for the law – so too, the DNA does not define the rules by which cell behaves, it is merely the physical storage in which those rules are stored.

Yes, it is true that the information that is contained within the DNA (the genes) do perpetuate themselves, and in that respect we are the servants of our genes, but a servant is not the same as his master, despite the relationship between them.

The question was, what are 'we', not what governs us – they are different questions.

In the same way that a member (citizen or resident) of a country, is subservient to the laws of that country, and is required to uphold and perpetuate those laws, but nonetheless the individual person still has an identity that is separate from the law, despite being subservient to it.
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #28 on: 11/04/2007 15:54:23 »
By the way, Another_Someone, thanks for your quoting method. It works now =) Hope it gets fixed soon
 

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« Reply #29 on: 11/04/2007 15:54:36 »
Lol! I just saw your dot lol
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #30 on: 11/04/2007 15:57:37 »
Hang on Paul.. a HOST for the Dna? So why does the DNA want to carry on? Again, we are back to square 1. Let's say that we are just ONE Dna? Why does the DNA want to carry on living?

Ok then.. Sidetracking away from this.. What is the point in us being here. In us living? We all know that we are to die. One day. Is it really that we were sent down to look after "God's" creation?

Systems depend upon rules that govern their behaviour in order to sustain themselves.  The DNA contains the rules that govern the behaviour of the cells (note when we are talking about multicellular organisms, it is the behaviour of the cells the govern rather than the behaviour of the total organism, although ofcourse the behaviour of the total organism is itself controlled by the cells that compose it).  In some ways, the information in the DNA can be seen to be to a cell what a body of law are to a country the law is a necessity, but not a definition of a country.  Furthermore, a law book does not constitute the law itself, it is merely a form of physical storage for the law so too, the DNA does not define the rules by which cell behaves, it is merely the physical storage in which those rules are stored.

Yes, it is true that the information that is contained within the DNA (the genes) do perpetuate themselves, and in that respect we are the servants of our genes, but a servant is not the same as his master, despite the relationship between them.

The question was, what are 'we', not what governs us they are different questions.

In the same way that a member (citizen or resident) of a country, is subservient to the laws of that country, and is required to uphold and perpetuate those laws, but nonetheless the individual person still has an identity that is separate from the law, despite being subservient to it.

OK. So I'm getting the idea of this whole gene and dna thing. But there's still something that confuses me, but I'm not sure what. It's in the back of my head, and I can't seem to find it.  ???
 

another_someone

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« Reply #31 on: 11/04/2007 16:05:09 »
controversial note here and not my opinions just a quick thought.

If god was DNA and not some high being on anothe plain, this could be why homosexuality is frowned upon! no chance of making more DNA.
note i have gay friends...the above just makes sense if DNA was god

The above is partly true.

The complication is that you share genes with other people, and sometimes it is valuable to help your siblings reproduce even where you do not successfully reproduce, because that way at least some of your genes will survive through your siblings children, and if the combined effort gives your siblings children a better chance of surviving than would be possible if you and your siblings were each in competition through your respective offspring, it is sometimes a trade-off worth making.

The most extreme example of this is with worker bees (or similar ranks in social ants, etc.) where the individual will help the hive survive, but will never reproduce themselves.  The situation with social insects is slightly different from the human situation, since the members of a hive all share 100% of there genes, whereas human siblings (unless they are identical twins) will only share 50% of their genes, but 50% is still much better than 0%.
 

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« Reply #32 on: 11/04/2007 16:08:34 »
Yup, Paul, I see where your theory on God being DNA is coming from. Yet, how does "God", KNOW that homosexuality will not create more DNA's? How does that one single DNA, KNOW what is going to happen?
 

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« Reply #33 on: 11/04/2007 16:10:17 »
Another_Someone, just one curious question to ask. When does my status from Newbie, change? I made this account a couple of days ago, because I had a science question which needed answering. Fun site though, to share our thoughts  ;)
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #34 on: 11/04/2007 16:29:21 »
well no eureka moment, but as with all theories they keep evolving. i now wonder if the DNA picked us as a host not because we were the best it could find but because we were adaptive. It may have seen how we evolved and thought that our own evolution would benefit its own evolution.

As humans got smarter so did the DNA.

If the DNA is god then it would know that repdoduction was impossible through homosexual relations, but because we are adaptive and skilled even homosexuals can noe have children through scientific methods - another good reason for the DNA choosing us as a host.

The DNA needs to keep the "blood lines" going for it's own survival and evolution, it is, or at least thinks it is the ruler and in control...or something, i am still working on it.

Yes, George it is fun.

As for when do you stop being a newbie - once you pst enough stupid questions and answers. look at me full member - lots of stupid q and a's!
no seriously it goes on how many posts you make.

 

another_someone

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« Reply #35 on: 11/04/2007 16:42:43 »
Another_Someone, just one curious question to ask. When does my status from Newbie, change? I made this account a couple of days ago, because I had a science question which needed answering. Fun site though, to share our thoughts  ;)


First increment of status is at 50 posts.

The following is a copy of a post made on the moderators private board about this question:

Quote

Newbie                                           *       0   
Jr. Member                                      **      50   
Full Member                                    ***     100   
Sr. Member                                    ****     250   
Hero Member                                  *****     500   
Neilep Level Member                         ******    6000   
Too Much Free Time Level Member         **********    9000


BTW, the quoting problem has now been fixed.
« Last Edit: 11/04/2007 16:45:32 by another_someone »
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #36 on: 11/04/2007 16:56:02 »
well no eureka moment, but as with all theories they keep evolving. i now wonder if the DNA picked us as a host not because we were the best it could find but because we were adaptive. It may have seen how we evolved and thought that our own evolution would benefit its own evolution.

As humans got smarter so did the DNA.

If the DNA is god then it would know that repdoduction was impossible through homosexual relations, but because we are adaptive and skilled even homosexuals can noe have children through scientific methods - another good reason for the DNA choosing us as a host.

The DNA needs to keep the "blood lines" going for it's own survival and evolution, it is, or at least thinks it is the ruler and in control...or something, i am still working on it.

Yes, George it is fun.

As for when do you stop being a newbie - once you pst enough stupid questions and answers. look at me full member - lots of stupid q and a's!
no seriously it goes on how many posts you make.



The DNA picking us as a host.. I think that's quite understandable. Just like viruses pick on humans to live on, DNA's do the same?

And Another_Someone, thanks for that info =)
 

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« Reply #37 on: 11/04/2007 17:14:33 »
Yes I had same problems posted and emailed Dave and he has sorted it out! YAYYYYYYYYYYY!
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #38 on: 11/04/2007 17:16:15 »
Haha, thanks Karen :)
 

another_someone

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« Reply #39 on: 11/04/2007 17:20:13 »
The DNA picking us as a host.. I think that's quite understandable. Just like viruses pick on humans to live on, DNA's do the same?

To imply that DNA picked us is to imply that we can exist without the DNA.

At a genetic level, I would question whether we are any different from just a collection of viruses.  We certainly contain old historic viruses within our genome, and all a virus is is a handful of genes wrapped up in a very simple carrier that inserts those genes into another cell.  We too are genes with all sorts of cellular machinery around it, so if one removes that machinery, a gene is just a gene, whether it was inherited from your parents or from a viral infection, or from a viral infection that infected your ancestor.

Ofcourse, the cellular machinery is an important part of the cell - the gene is merely the software of the cell, it still requires the hardware with which to function (software in the absence of the right hardware is meaningless).
 

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« Reply #40 on: 11/04/2007 18:37:20 »
The DNA picking us as a host.. I think that's quite understandable. Just like viruses pick on humans to live on, DNA's do the same?

To imply that DNA picked us is to imply that we can exist without the DNA.

At a genetic level, I would question whether we are any different from just a collection of viruses.  We certainly contain old historic viruses within our genome, and all a virus is is a handful of genes wrapped up in a very simple carrier that inserts those genes into another cell.  We too are genes with all sorts of cellular machinery around it, so if one removes that machinery, a gene is just a gene, whether it was inherited from your parents or from a viral infection, or from a viral infection that infected your ancestor.

Ofcourse, the cellular machinery is an important part of the cell - the gene is merely the software of the cell, it still requires the hardware with which to function (software in the absence of the right hardware is meaningless).

Yeah, that's true that to imply that DNA picked us is to imply that we can exist without DNA.

How about, we could once live without genes/DNA but when DNA entered our body (like a virus), our bodies became immuned to them, and kept them. This triggered the evolving of humans, which is what is left of us now?
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #41 on: 11/04/2007 18:43:39 »

Yeah, that's true that to imply that DNA picked us is to imply that we can exist without DNA.

How about, we could once live without genes/DNA but when DNA entered our body (like a virus), our bodies became immuned to them, and kept them. This triggered the evolving of humans, which is what is left of us now?

good thinking for a non-chelsea fan, i will have to sort this out...

may be, DNA started out as a little piece of code alone in the sea or where ever. like a parasite it eventually needed a host for it's own evolution. first i entered single cell organisms and as it evolved it progressed to infect everything.

one and all are just hosts to DNA
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #42 on: 11/04/2007 18:48:16 »

Yeah, that's true that to imply that DNA picked us is to imply that we can exist without DNA.

How about, we could once live without genes/DNA but when DNA entered our body (like a virus), our bodies became immuned to them, and kept them. This triggered the evolving of humans, which is what is left of us now?

good thinking for a non-chelsea fan, i will have to sort this out...

may be, DNA started out as a little piece of code alone in the sea or where ever. like a parasite it eventually needed a host for it's own evolution. first i entered single cell organisms and as it evolved it progressed to infect everything.

one and all are just hosts to DNA

Haha? You've already read that I hate Chelsea? Lol, things spread fast in these forums. :P Im a liverpool fan. Muahaha :)

Yup, and I also think you're theory is understandable once again. The DNA used to be a little loner in the sea, and needed a revolution. Best choice, us humans.
 

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« Reply #43 on: 11/04/2007 18:48:42 »
And heh, I'm a Junior Member now. :) 40 posts in one day, good effort? :P
 

another_someone

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« Reply #44 on: 11/04/2007 19:00:19 »
may be, DNA started out as a little piece of code alone in the sea or where ever. like a parasite it eventually needed a host for it's own evolution. first i entered single cell organisms and as it evolved it progressed to infect everything.

one and all are just hosts to DNA

So where was the DNA created?

The only place where we know DNA is created is within a living cell (not even viruses are capable of manufacturing DNA - they have to use another living organism to manufacture DNA - this is one reason why most biologists would not regard viruses as a living entity).

The trouble is that cells require DNA to instruct them how to build the machinery to create DNA, and DNA requires the cell to get created - very much a chicken and egg situation.

The following is pure speculation:

One would guess that early proto life contained all sorts of mixes of chemical processes, and some of them started to create some sort of cellular structure, and within that cell they started to find ways of storing bits of information they could use to improve the efficiency of their interaction with their environment (possibly even before they had learned to reproduce - these would have maybe been lone immortal cells).  The information would probably not have been stored using DNA, but some simpler process that was sufficient for their purposes.  The trouble is that an immortal cell would only have a limited capacity to grow, and if some of these cells started to grow too much, they would burst.  Some cells would then develop means that, once they grew beyond a certain size, they would develop a partition that would allow each side of the partition to continue processing optimally, but they also then needed to copy the memory storage into both halves of the partition, and so you have memory duplication.  Once the two halves of the cell were partitioned and duplicated, they could then in theory just separate away from each other, and so you now have reproduction.

Only later, as the information needs of the cell increased, I would imagine that they would start using more sophisticated means of storing that information, and then they developed RNA, and later DNA, as an efficient means of storing information.
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #45 on: 11/04/2007 19:07:45 »
Ugh. My sister was doing a project on RNAi and all that rubbish. I almost fainted listening to it! Some of it was quite fascinating though.

And yes, I really do wonder where this "DNA" started. Maybe humans just had it within them since the beginning. But how?
 

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« Reply #46 on: 11/04/2007 19:11:25 »
george, give me time to make it all up ;D



So where was the DNA created?


at the beginning of time, they were among the early and most primative of...whats the word...things!, during their evolution they had the need to infect others for protection from the elements and predators.

at some point they lost the ability to reproduce naturally and had to have their host do it for them.

The only place where we know DNA is created is within a living cell (not even viruses are capable of manufacturing DNA - they have to use another living organism to manufacture DNA - this is one reason why most biologists would not regard viruses as a living entity).

The trouble is that cells require DNA to instruct them how to build the machinery to create DNA, and DNA requires the cell to get created - very much a chicken and egg situation.


that is true for "the now" but way back in the "long ago" it was not true. the DNA had already affected evolution and as a survival technique had evolved to such an extent that all living cells needed the DNA.
 

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« Reply #47 on: 11/04/2007 19:13:24 »
Errr..Paul. Could you make that any easier for a 13 year old to understand please :)
 

another_someone

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« Reply #48 on: 11/04/2007 19:29:47 »
And yes, I really do wonder where this "DNA" started. Maybe humans just had it within them since the beginning. But how?

The issue of humans is fairly straight forward - humans are very modern, and have inherited DNA from their ape ancestors, who inherited their DNA from whatever mammal preceded the first ape, and back to the first mammal, and then back to the first animal, and then back to the first bacteria.

The real question has to be how the first bacteria came about.

Modern humans are only somewhere between 100,000 and 250,000 years old.  The first bacteria go back around 4.5 billion years ago.
« Last Edit: 11/04/2007 19:31:19 by another_someone »
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #49 on: 11/04/2007 19:33:28 »
And yes, I really do wonder where this "DNA" started. Maybe humans just had it within them since the beginning. But how?

The issue of humans is fairly straight forward - humans are very modern, and have inherited DNA from their ape ancestors, who inherited their DNA from whatever mammal preceded the first ape, and back to the first mammal, and then back to the first animal, and then back to the first bacteria.

The real question has to be how the first bacteria came about.

Modern humans are only somewhere between 100,000 and 250,000 years old.  The first bacteria go back around 4.5 billion years ago.

We have evolved from apes. Why are there still apes and monkeys and chimpanzees and orang-utans still our there today?
 

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« Reply #49 on: 11/04/2007 19:33:28 »

 

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