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Offline Negin -(Universe)

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Heart transplant
« on: 14/04/2007 17:13:26 »
when some one recieves a heart transplant do they feel any different emotionally, would they then start feeling like the person whose heart they have?? [?]
« Last Edit: 21/04/2007 00:48:29 by ukmicky »


 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #1 on: 14/04/2007 17:50:37 »
Thays an interesting question, I have heard odd things about other transplants also where people have felt certain ways after like you descibe, but I always thought it to be imagination. I really do not know if there is any actual scientific proof to that really happening!How could one prove it anyway sense it is more emotional then anything..well and physical.. Any surgeries of a serious nature like that tend to changs how one feels about life and other emotional things.. I have had several life changiing surgeries and each time feel more vulnerable to life itself as well as emotional..So even without transplants I think ones emotions change dramatically and I would be willing to bet that there are some super changed emotions perhaps even some very strong erges to know about your doner. I know the thought of trans plants alone make me humble and very emotional thinking about another who could not survive but would either donate or have family donate.. it is one of the most compassionate things I have ever seen.. And brings me too tears just at the wonder of science and the human soul to have such compassion for life to continue and to reach out beyond ones self past the ego whist still alive and give of themselvesfor anothers suvival.. It is the ultimate gift... amazing..

I wonder the same things as you!
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #2 on: 14/04/2007 17:58:04 »
Hmm.. I doubt that there will be any different emotional feelings, unless you're really upset about the operation that you have had.

But, I expect for most people who take these heart transplants, that they will receive immense pain in the chest area, which is why they have to take drugs such as painkillers and another drug which helps the body stop thinking of rejecting it.

The main reason that we have this pain, is because our body is refusing the accept a different heart into our body. They recognise it as not ours, and trys to attack/refuse it. Therefore, people who have taken these transplants, need to regularly take medicine which helps the body think that the heart is ours. This is unless, you find a perfect heart, which matches the same as yours - which is highly doubtful.

I have read a fictional book called Pig-heart Boy, by Malorie Blackman, whom I am a great fan of! I have read all/most of her books, and they really are fascinating. I recommend Malorie Blackman and Anthony Horowitz, maybe not Anthony Horowitz for adults out there, but many of Malorie Blackman's books are of anti-racism, and they are really well written.

Anyway, the Pig-heart Boy book, was interesting, because this boy receives a heart transplant, but of a pig's. It eventually works, and he gets better, but he has a hard time having all the medicine etc.
 

Offline Negin -(Universe)

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« Reply #3 on: 14/04/2007 18:00:44 »
i guess i have to become a heart surgeon to find out!! i guess my question ties in with another question, that being: is our body connected with our soul? if it is, then maybe by having a transplant we are being united with the doner's soul???
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #4 on: 14/04/2007 18:02:23 »
Oh dear.. I'm afraid I think lowly of souls, and find them rather fictional. But I suppose, you have a case there, and that we have lost our soul within our old hearts, and have to be united with the doner's soul. But, although I don't believe in these souls, I thought that the souls were within our brains, and what we think, and not deep in our hearts.
 

Offline Negin -(Universe)

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« Reply #5 on: 14/04/2007 18:08:44 »
hmm, thats a phylosophical question Seany, we dont quite know whether the soul is throughout our body or whether its in our brain??? i appreciate your explanation but by emotions i meant the emotions of the donor, although your explanation is perfectly correct  ;)
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #6 on: 14/04/2007 18:10:47 »
Meh, sorry. I'm not so good at this psychological side of science! I hope you have a good answer coming to you! ;)
 

Offline Negin -(Universe)

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« Reply #7 on: 14/04/2007 18:17:57 »
no no, don't be sorry. i guess its just a complicated question, one of those that doesnt have an answer, but I always believe there must be an answer to the unasnwered, we'll have to see
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #8 on: 14/04/2007 18:25:39 »
Yes, I'll be checking back to see if anyone answers :)
 

another_someone

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« Reply #9 on: 14/04/2007 19:28:48 »
There is some rather controversial discussion abut what is referred to as cellular memory - where the cells of the transplanted organ might carry some memory of the donor within them.

More probably, if anything exists, it is not a memory of the donors life, but that the DNA of the donors organ is influencing the behavior of the recipient in the same way as the DNA might have influenced the behaviour of the original donor (e.g. if the original donor had a predisposition to addiction, or to gambling; it might be that some of the DNA is having the same influence on the recipient of the organ).

Whatever it is, the whole debate is still regarded as highly controversial.
 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #10 on: 14/04/2007 19:44:22 »
Yes George those are kind  of the things I had heard also. Very similar . I find them facinating.. my brother in law had to have a heart valve put in .. I had to consider same thing a while back and it is all quite scarry.. I am glad that I did not have to go there yet! Hopefully I won't.. given everything heals and gets better.. we will see. Hey george do you know any good sites with more info about the emotional aspect to the above questions, Studies etc.

 

another_someone

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heart transplant
« Reply #11 on: 14/04/2007 20:45:14 »
Hey george do you know any good sites with more info about the emotional aspect to the above questions, Studies etc.

It has not been easy to find any article that either does not condemn the idea as total mumbo jumbo, or, while supporting the ideas, still makes it sound like it is mumbo jumbo.

About the only article that seems to be supporting the idea, while sounds vaguely sane, is at http://www.med.unc.edu/wellness/main/links/cellular%20memory.htm
 

another_someone

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« Reply #12 on: 14/04/2007 20:56:16 »
Here are some more links.

One of the things that concern me is that it seems to be the same few examples that are referred to over and over, which implies that the real amount of data is limited, and that in the rereporting of the same data, we could be dealing with Chinese whispers.

http://www.sfms.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home&CONTENTID=1540&SECTION=Article_Archives&TEMPLATE=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm
San Francisco Medical Society | Cellular Memory in Organ Transplants

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/CellularMemories.html
NEXUS: Organ Transplants & Cellular Memories

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/01/2006_47_wed.shtml
BBC - Radio 4 Woman's Hour -Transplanted Memories
 

Offline Negin -(Universe)

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« Reply #13 on: 15/04/2007 12:38:04 »
thank you George for the explanation. i was just wondering if the DNA DOES influence the behaviur of the heart acceptor wouldnt its effets be stopped by the acceptors DNA which is more dominated throughout the body.
i will have a look at the web sites and will ask more questions a bit later!
 

lyner

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heart transplant
« Reply #14 on: 20/04/2007 23:33:13 »
Isn't it more likely to be a cultural-based reason?
Traditionally, we rate the heart rather out of proportion with its importance. Apart from the fact that the effect of a malfunctioning heart is very rapidly obvious, it's no more essential than a whole lot of other organs in our body. It certainly produces a  lot fewer hormones than, say, the  liver, so you would not , rationally, expect it to have a huge , objective, effect on behavior or emotions.
Imagine the effect of a transplanted adrenal gland. It could really perk you up - or 'lay you back' . depending on its relative activity, compared with your old one. But adrenal glands just don't rate in poems or love songs.
 

another_someone

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heart transplant
« Reply #15 on: 20/04/2007 23:48:15 »
I think the Japanese have regarded the liver more as we regard the heart.

That aside, most of the debate about cellular memory is not specific to the heart, but to any transplanted organs.
 

Offline eric l

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Heart transplant
« Reply #16 on: 21/04/2007 12:27:57 »
I think the Japanese have regarded the liver more as we regard the heart.

Apparently not only the Japanese !  In Dutch we have expressions like :
  • "iets op zijn lever hebben" (litt. "to have something on one's liver") for to have something on one's mind
Seems to indicate that part of our memory is supposed to be situated in the liver !
 

Offline Negin -(Universe)

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« Reply #17 on: 22/04/2007 17:05:45 »
ookay, i never thought of the liver like that!! but i guess cellular memory is the basic idea behind it, and then the degree of the influence from the cells depends on which organ they belong to, in this case liver, heart, adrenal glands etc
 

Offline Negin -(Universe)

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« Reply #18 on: 22/04/2007 17:19:01 »
Another someone i was just looking at some of the websites you provided, the cases one of the websites represented most definatly supports the idea of cellular memory and its just amazing to think that each and every body cell has a memory????? one that can still be alive and influencial in another's body with a complete set of individual DNA and memory???
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #19 on: 24/04/2007 13:32:03 »
Warriors from some African tribes would eat the liver of those they had killed in the belief that they would gain some of their dead opponents strength. It has been said that Idi Amin practised this when he was dictator of Uganda. I don't know if cannibalistic peoples elsewhere in the world believed the same.
 

Offline Guttedpiggy

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« Reply #20 on: 24/04/2007 13:54:17 »
wow, that is truly amazing lol, i have heard that people felt feelings for the previous owners or the hearts children, but personally i think thats a load of pig crap, i don't believe in the paranormal or aliens or anything else like that
 

another_someone

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Heart transplant
« Reply #21 on: 24/04/2007 17:06:28 »
Warriors from some African tribes would eat the liver of those they had killed in the belief that they would gain some of their dead opponents strength. It has been said that Idi Amin practised this when he was dictator of Uganda. I don't know if cannibalistic peoples elsewhere in the world believed the same.

I had heard the same of some South American tribes.

In other cultures, the cannibalism is not of the enemy, but of one's own deceased relative, presumably again allowing some part of the relative to continue to live within one.
 

another_someone

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Heart transplant
« Reply #22 on: 24/04/2007 17:13:02 »
wow, that is truly amazing lol, i have heard that people felt feelings for the previous owners or the hearts children, but personally i think thats a load of pig crap, i don't believe in the paranormal or aliens or anything else like that

It is highly controversial, and not accepted by the mainstream, but neither is it paranormal.

The genes in the DNA are a massive memory pool - the only thing is that they are regarded as  a read only memory, set at birth, and unalterable therafter - cellular memory implies that this memory pool may be laterable during one's life (either that, or that there is some other memory pool within the cell that performs the same function).

What would seem perverse to me is that such a high level of redundancy of memory (that the same memory was stored in each and every cell) would seem wasteful of the storage capacity of the cell, and one would imagine that if memories could be stored with each cell, it would make more sense (in regard to storage capacity) that each cell would store different memories.  We also have no evidence that the human conscious mind is able to access cellular level information (even if it were capable of storing it).
 

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Heart transplant
« Reply #22 on: 24/04/2007 17:13:02 »

 

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