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Author Topic: Can You Really Hate?  (Read 14544 times)

Offline moonfire

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Can You Really Hate?
« on: 22/05/2007 19:09:39 »
Thinking about this word hate and how it is defined.  Is it possible for us to know what hate is really or the closest thing we can possibly do with feelings in our emotional range?

Do we have an emotional range? 


 

another_someone

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« Reply #1 on: 22/05/2007 21:49:36 »
Aren't emotions little more that a package of preconditioned reactions (part habitual conditioning, part instinct) that form a particular pattern that we class together as an emotion?
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #2 on: 22/05/2007 22:14:18 »
Many people say that hate is just a higher form of dislike, some say it is impossible to realy hate someone. I think you have to be in a situation or have a series of events happen to truely know hate and all other emotions.

In a time when we are supposed to be calmer and more intouch with our feelings, we are supposed to be a nicer society. I think this is all part of "the plan" to make us more submissive, can you realy hate? Oh yes.
 

Offline moonfire

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Can You Really Hate?
« Reply #3 on: 22/05/2007 22:24:25 »
Aren't emotions little more that a package of preconditioned reactions (part habitual conditioning, part instinct) that form a particular pattern that we class together as an emotion?


Yes, but is it an accurate measure of we can classify as a real emotion or what we term it from our emotions/feelings?
 

Offline moonfire

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Can You Really Hate?
« Reply #4 on: 22/05/2007 22:27:00 »
Many people say that hate is just a higher form of dislike, some say it is impossible to realy hate someone. I think you have to be in a situation or have a series of events happen to truely know hate and all other emotions.

In a time when we are supposed to be calmer and more intouch with our feelings, we are supposed to be a nicer society. I think this is all part of "the plan" to make us more submissive, can you realy hate? Oh yes.

Higher form of dislike...hmmm, interesting.  I think dislike is better than hate as it maybe easier to define.

How can I hate if is dislike a situation, person, or something in particular?
 

Offline moonfire

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Can You Really Hate?
« Reply #5 on: 22/05/2007 22:28:36 »
Do we teach our young to hate?  I hear kids spew out all the time "I hate you!" I don't recall many people going around screaming I hate you and I am sure it happens...but kids tend to use that phrase more.
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #6 on: 22/05/2007 22:34:09 »
Do we teach our young to hate?  I hear kids spew out all the time "I hate you!" I don't recall many people going around screaming I hate you and I am sure it happens...but kids tend to use that phrase more.

We don't teach kids to hate*, they use that word because it causes more hurt to their "victim" or through poor vocubulary skills.

Kids may hate sprouts, or doing homework. But that is realy dislike

*you could argue that abusers of children teach them to hate.
 

Offline moonfire

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Can You Really Hate?
« Reply #7 on: 22/05/2007 22:41:30 »
Yes, exactly my point....Kids hate sprouts, homework and it is really dislike.

Dislike is not a word that means we can easily forgive or forget.
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #8 on: 22/05/2007 22:45:07 »
Well don't you need love, to know what hate is? If there isn't love, you wouldn't be able to compare to something, thus you wouldn't realise what hate was!

And it is vice versa. You need hate to be able to love. If you didn't hate, you wouldn't have anything to compare, to make it feel like love! Comprendo? Heehee

It's a bit like Yin-Yang!! Evil - Kind.. Dark - Light.. Black - White.
 

Offline Seany

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« Reply #9 on: 22/05/2007 22:45:25 »
Oh wait sorry.. I may have gone a bit off track!
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #10 on: 22/05/2007 22:49:44 »
Well don't you need love, to know what hate is? If there isn't love, you wouldn't be able to compare to something, thus you wouldn't realise what hate was!

And it is vice versa. You need hate to be able to love. If you didn't hate, you wouldn't have anything to compare, to make it feel like love! Comprendo? Heehee

It's a bit like Yin-Yang!! Evil - Kind.. Dark - Light.. Black - White.

This could turn quite philosophical. How do you define love, is it not just affection? I personally don't think you have to know one to appreciate the other.
 

Offline moonfire

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Can You Really Hate?
« Reply #11 on: 22/05/2007 22:57:18 »
Oh wait sorry.. I may have gone a bit off track!

No, you are on track...and it is interesting what you wrote and I will respond accordingly.
 

Offline moonfire

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« Reply #12 on: 22/05/2007 23:01:58 »
Well don't you need love, to know what hate is? If there isn't love, you wouldn't be able to compare to something, thus you wouldn't realise what hate was!

And it is vice versa. You need hate to be able to love. If you didn't hate, you wouldn't have anything to compare, to make it feel like love! Comprendo? Heehee

It's a bit like Yin-Yang!! Evil - Kind.. Dark - Light.. Black - White.

This is good Seany....but from a baby's standpoint they learn love first or rather bonding to a parent/parents.  It is a way of survival as a parent loves, nurtures a child....but I have never taught my kids to hate...pushing them away, telling them I hate them or their actions....is there an absence of hate in our emotions? We like or dislike and it appears easier to define...but hate...how extreme could it be is this the ultimate of dislike and you can't possibly dislike in this arena of emotions?
 

another_someone

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« Reply #13 on: 23/05/2007 01:56:33 »
Many people say that hate is just a higher form of dislike, some say it is impossible to realy hate someone. I think you have to be in a situation or have a series of events happen to truely know hate and all other emotions.

In a time when we are supposed to be calmer and more intouch with our feelings, we are supposed to be a nicer society. I think this is all part of "the plan" to make us more submissive, can you realy hate? Oh yes.

I do not see hate as an extension of dislike, and I think it often has more to do with fear.  Detestation is extreme dislike, but hate is something else.

You don't need to destroy someone or something that you merely dislike, or even detest them; you simply avoid them.  You do need to destroy that which you fear.  To hate someone, you usually fear they are out to destroy you, which you fear, and so need to destroy them.

It is true that the alienation that starts with dislike or detestation can develop into distrust, which them develops into fear and hatred; so dislike may be a seed that creates an environment for the fear that leads to hatred, but I don't think you can have true hatred without that element of fear.
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #14 on: 23/05/2007 09:35:54 »

I do not see hate as an extension of dislike, and I think it often has more to do with fear.  Detestation is extreme dislike, but hate is something else.

You don't need to destroy someone or something that you merely dislike, or even detest them; you simply avoid them.  You do need to destroy that which you fear.  To hate someone, you usually fear they are out to destroy you, which you fear, and so need to destroy them.

It is true that the alienation that starts with dislike or detestation can develop into distrust, which them develops into fear and hatred; so dislike may be a seed that creates an environment for the fear that leads to hatred, but I don't think you can have true hatred without that element of fear.


So. we can start of with simple dislike leading to detest, distrust, fear, then at it's greatest hatred. Where does loathing come in?

I agree in part, George. Some hatred does need or stem from fear, but it can also be straightforward hatred nothing to do with fear. The fear factor would only come in to play if you thought someone was out to destroy you, like you said.

I have never thought anyone was out to destroy me, but i do know hate.
 

another_someone

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« Reply #15 on: 23/05/2007 10:08:34 »
I have never thought anyone was out to destroy me, but i do know hate.

There you have an advantage over me, if advantage it be, because I cannot feel that I can rightly say I have ever hated anybody.
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #16 on: 23/05/2007 10:10:31 »
I have never thought anyone was out to destroy me, but i do know hate.

There you have an advantage over me, if advantage it be, because I cannot feel that I can rightly say I have ever hated anybody.

It is no advantage, George.
 

another_someone

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« Reply #17 on: 23/05/2007 10:36:50 »
I agree in part, George. Some hatred does need or stem from fear, but it can also be straightforward hatred nothing to do with fear. The fear factor would only come in to play if you thought someone was out to destroy you, like you said.

OK, I would ask the following:

Is the hatred returned in kind, or is it unrequited?

Secondly, does the hatred include an element to desire harm upon the person (I don't mean that you have serious criminal intents upon them, only that if you had the opportunity to cause some slight harm, or to undermine them in some small way, would you do so)?  Do you believe that they, whether you feel they hate you or not, would choose to undermine you in any way?

I should add that hatred can be a habitual thing, where a past fear was converted into hatred, and lingered as such even when the thing you once feared no longer gives rational reason to be feared, but the memory of that fear still lingers.
« Last Edit: 23/05/2007 11:10:59 by another_someone »
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #18 on: 23/05/2007 21:56:24 »

OK, I would ask the following:

Is the hatred returned in kind, or is it unrequited?


No, maybe my mistake. I am not the one that hates, i am the one that is hated! I do not return the hatred, although i do detest the other person/s


Secondly, does the hatred include an element to desire harm upon the person (I don't mean that you have serious criminal intents upon them, only that if you had the opportunity to cause some slight harm, or to undermine them in some small way, would you do so)?  Do you believe that they, whether you feel they hate you or not, would choose to undermine you in any way?


Now i think about it, my previous statement that "I have never thought anyone was out to destroy me" is wrong. When you say "does the hatred include an element to desire harm upon the person", i would say yes. This has been a factor and an attempt. Even serious criminal intent has been a factor, on more that one occasion


I should add that hatred can be a habitual thing, where a past fear was converted into hatred, and lingered as such even when the thing you once feared no longer gives rational reason to be feared, but the memory of that fear still lingers.

Almost spot on, there was never any reason for the hatred. Well no logical or rational one, it was all to do with religious beliefs and doctrines. They still play a role, but a minor one now. You have it spot on when you say it is habitual, it has become so instilled that nothing i can ever do or say will change that.

This is just like therapy! but without the stones and fee.
 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #19 on: 24/05/2007 04:33:37 »
I must say I have harbored hate in my heart in the past. There is a huge difference in my humble opinion between hate and dislike or strongly dislike.. It is different..

I agree with George about the fear..In both of the instances where I felt this there was horrendous fear... and even now reading this thread I feel it seeps back up inside .. not the hate but the fear!

 I had no control over things that happened as a child and again as an adult.. It was not until I faced the fear that I was able to let the hate go away.. It had eaten at my soul.. Made me bitter and cynical  I had no faith in myself or anyone else I was always afraid and never trusted anyone..I still have trouble with the whole thing.. Always looking to find out why on earth should I believe someone loves me or that I am worth loving..LOL I think that is where the hate slipped in.. It eats away at you making you defenseless emotionally as well as physically. at times..sometimes it is easier to harbor the hate then to face the problem so it eat's away at you and grows until it swallows you up. It changes how you feel about life love yourself and others trust belief etc. I have lots more I could say, and I thought I could tell you more why I feel this way.. but I cannot.. elaborate..at present..I will read along until I can..
 

Offline moonfire

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« Reply #20 on: 24/05/2007 04:42:27 »
Okay, now I am going to twist this around so you can look at this scenario.  If they know them, is murder hate?  Is it hate if they don't know the person and murders?  Can murder occur through hate or pure detestion, dislike, or what?
« Last Edit: 24/05/2007 11:52:58 by moonfire »
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #21 on: 24/05/2007 09:46:15 »
Okay, now I am going to twist this around so you can look at this scenario.  If they know them, is murder hate?  Is it hate if they don't know the person and murders?  Can murder occur through hate or pure destestion, dislike, or what?

I don't think you need to hate someone to murder them, you may have to have intent but not hate. it could be vengance, revenge, or you could be a contract killer...the reason to murder someone could be endless.
 

Offline moonfire

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« Reply #22 on: 24/05/2007 11:54:34 »
Yes, but they will call some of the crime committed through murder a "hate crime" such as murder with racism involved..... You are right Paul, the reason to murder could be endless.  (I really need to quit reading these type of books...lol)
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #23 on: 24/05/2007 13:15:17 »
What type of books do you have there, Lo?

I think "hate crimes" are an American thing, thats why i never mentioned them. Any way are hate crimes not just a fancy way of wording and legislating for racism?
« Last Edit: 24/05/2007 13:16:54 by paul.fr »
 

Offline moonfire

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« Reply #24 on: 24/05/2007 15:22:10 »
I know...I read mysteries and it will stem these ugly thoughts from me....trying to find out the motive of the crime.  I think our worst dislike towards a thought, person, or thing may not really be hate and it has made me curious.
 

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« Reply #24 on: 24/05/2007 15:22:10 »

 

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