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Offline System_failureGTz

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« on: 01/06/2007 14:35:04 »
                            GOD IS ON OUR SIDE
  god seems to be sitting back in his recliner chair and watch the human race tear itself to peicies why does he SIt back and relax as american troops Rape MURDER AND DESTROY any muslim in sight...

                             Has america bribed god
           
                                     
                             or has god stopped caring
 has god taken a final look  at the human race and decided that even he cannot undo the s***heap that the human race has got itself into
                           

                                Our way of life is coming to an end
                             GOD IS NOT ON OUR SIDE
                                      GOD IS ON NOONES SIDE
                             BECAUSE GOD NO LONGER CARES
                                     FOR THE HUMAN RACE
                              GOD HAS SHUNNED US... WE HAVE FORSAKEN THE PLANET
                                      BUT HOW CAN GOD SHUN US IF HES NOT THERE
                             
                   GOD IS AN EXCUSE FOR THE MISTAKES THAT WE HAVE ALL MADE
                                 GOD IS AN EXCUSE FOR THE WAR ON IRAQ
                                   AN EXCUSE FOR THE  AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE
                                 AND IF WE FAIL TO SEE THIS
                                      THE WORLD as we KNOW IT IS GOING TO DIE
                                                [|)]


 

Offline kdlynn

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« Reply #1 on: 01/06/2007 16:27:49 »
you seem to be making two different statements. are you saying that god has given up or that he's not real to begin with. i also think that it's rude to say that americans have bribed god. if god is as he is described, he cannot be bribed.
 

Offline kdlynn

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« Reply #2 on: 01/06/2007 16:32:39 »
and does anyone remember that we were attacked first? if iran had attacked iraq, the world would expect iraq to fight back. if spain attacked germany, the world would expect germany to fight back. if people are being raped, they shouldn't be. but the rest is all a part of war. it's a war that we never asked for. we're just fighting back.
 

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« Reply #3 on: 01/06/2007 16:40:36 »
i realize that no specific government attacked us, but we are fighting the countries that harbored and helped the people that did
 

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« Reply #4 on: 01/06/2007 17:35:14 »
and does anyone remember that we were attacked first? if iran had attacked iraq, the world would expect iraq to fight back. if spain attacked germany, the world would expect germany to fight back. if people are being raped, they shouldn't be. but the rest is all a part of war. it's a war that we never asked for. we're just fighting back.

If you remember, in the 1980's, Iraq did attack Iran, and most of the West backed Iraq.

If you also remember, Iraq never actually harboured any of the terrorists that attacked America on September 11, 2001.

It must also be remembered that Bin Laden was a prodigy of the US, used to attack the Soviet backed regime in Afghanistan, but did the Soviets of the Afghans attack the US in response?
 

Offline rosy

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« Reply #5 on: 01/06/2007 21:09:17 »
George- if you guys are going to talk politics, could you move at least that part to just chat? I still haven't worked out how...
 

Offline kdlynn

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« Reply #6 on: 02/06/2007 03:03:40 »
but george... did the rest of the world call iran the devil and other various names for defending itself? even if everyone supported the other "team" did they blame iran for fighting back? that's really my only question. because we are americans should we not be expected to fight back against any country, group, or regime that threatens our safety and freedom? the us and iraq have had issues with each other for a long time. it was bound to end in war there
 

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« Reply #7 on: 02/06/2007 03:41:05 »
It is the nature of Middle Eastern rhetoric that the other side is always the devil, and the Iraqis and Iranians called each other that enough.

Did not Reagan refer to the Soviets as the 'evil empire'?

Yes, the USA had problems with Iraq over many years, but the USA had problems with the Soviets for much longer, and although it did lead to many proxy wars, but we never actually did invade the Soviet Union.  The option of invading the Soviet Union just was not there, so the West had to be more imaginative about how to manage those problems.

With Iraq, invasion just seemed like the easy fix, and look where it has lead.

BTW, I will, in deference to Rosy's legitimate wishes, move this to the chat section.
 

Offline kdlynn

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« Reply #8 on: 02/06/2007 03:45:09 »
i don't really want to argue. i don't like arguing. i was kinda cranky this morning and i responded... crankily. lol. this whole war is hard to contemplate. there are many aspects to look at. this morning i was feeling patriotic i suppose.
 

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« Reply #9 on: 02/06/2007 03:58:03 »
I am not being anti-American - but all governments can get silly sometimes - that is not a condemnation of the nation, only of a particular policy.  Is that not the virtue of a democracy - that you have a right to condemn a government policy without being unpatriotic.

Not that I am saying that you must do so - you equally have a right to totally agree with the Government policy on Iraq, if that is what you feel about it - I am just saying that disagreeing with a government policy does not make you unpatriotic.
 

Offline kdlynn

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« Reply #10 on: 02/06/2007 04:01:36 »
i understand, george. i usually say nothing about the war at all because i do support it in some ways. i don't think everything has been done correctly, but i believe in the cause. i don't know what came over me earlier. i think i just kept my mouth shut too long and had to let it out once. :) my cousin was at the world trade center when the first plane hit. he was ok, but he was a police officer, so he couldn't even run. we were very worried. just struck a nerve
 

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« Reply #11 on: 02/06/2007 04:37:14 »
i understand, george. i usually say nothing about the war at all because i do support it in some ways. i don't think everything has been done correctly, but i believe in the cause. i don't know what came over me earlier. i think i just kept my mouth shut too long and had to let it out once. :) my cousin was at the world trade center when the first plane hit. he was ok, but he was a police officer, so he couldn't even run. we were very worried. just struck a nerve

Kadie,

I think the war was the most stupid reaction the USA could have undertaken (Afghanistan was debatable, but I think Iraq, at least at this moment in time, was inexcusable), but that I hold an opinion an opinion diametrically opposed to yourself is in no way an act of disrespect to you, or to deny you the right to hold the opinion you do.
 

Offline System_failureGTz

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« Reply #12 on: 03/06/2007 12:17:26 »
KDLYNN,

THE US of A HAs NO RIGHT TO KILL AND TORTURE  PEOPLE WITHOUT A TRIAL GUILTY OR NOT
THE US HAS NO CONTROL OVER WHAT THERE TROOPS DO, IT SEEMS THAT THE IMAGINARY GOD THAT THE HUMAN RACE HAS CONJURED UP TO JUSTIFY EXISTANCE HAS TURNED A BLIND EYE TO ALL OF THIS. THE WAR ON TERROR WAS STARTED BECAUSE OF 9/11 BUT IT CONTINUES TODAY BECAUSE OF AMERICAS GREED FOR OIL

THE U.S SAYS IT IS NOW TRYING TO RESTORE PEACE TO THE MIDDLE EAST, THE PLACE HAS BEEN AT WAR WITH ITSELF FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS IRAQ FIGHTING IRAN ECT, ECT. THE U.S SHOULD BE FORCED TO WITHDRAW ITS TROOPS IMMEDIATLEY, THEM BEING THERE IS GENERATING YET MORE CHAOS THE MIDDLE EAST WAS IN CHAOS BEFORE BUT NOW IT HAS BEEN PLUNGED INTO ANARCHIE BECAUSE OF THE AMERICAN TROOPS.

THE U.S.A CANNOT JUSTIFY THE SCATTERED BODY PARTS OF BABYS FOUND AFTER AMERICAN BOMB RAIDS AND THE
TRUCK LOADS FULL OF DEAD BODYS. AMERICA HAS PROMISED JUSTICE, AND CAUSED CHAOS. TERRORISTS AROUND THE WORLD NOW ARE EVERYDAY PLANNING ATTACKS ON THE U.S.A,
                    YES, THE 9/11 ATTACK WAS TERRIBLE, BUT GEORGE USES FEAR TACTICS AS WELL EG: WHEN TERRORISTS ABDUCT PEOPLE AND PUBLISH VIDIOS THREATENING THESE PEOPLE. THESE ARE FEAR TACTICS GORGE USES THEM TOO, BUT IN A MORE SUTTLE WAY SUCH AS TELLING PEOPLE TO BE ALERT AT ALL TIMES BECAUSE THE TERRORISTS ARE COMING IT PUTS THE WORLD INTO DISMAY AND FEAR
       




                  GEORGE BUSH IS THE TERRORIST INSIDE THE WHITEHOUSE SPREADING MORBID FEAR.     

« Last Edit: 03/06/2007 12:21:15 by System_failureGTz »
 

Offline kdlynn

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« Reply #13 on: 03/06/2007 17:57:07 »
i said i wasn't going to argue. i don't like arguing. i'm sorry for the losses over there, i really am. but there were babies lost in the world trade center as well. and if terrorists really are plotting to kill us all, then why shouldn't our leader in command warn us?! you're talking yourself in a circle!
 

Offline kdlynn

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« Reply #14 on: 03/06/2007 17:58:33 »
and you can't start a war and not finish it.  that's the last i am posting on this subject.
 

Offline System_failureGTz

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« Reply #15 on: 04/06/2007 09:57:46 »
well they would be finishing it wouldnt they withdrawing troops would end the war then peacemakers could go over and attempt to restore peace without using violence.
« Last Edit: 04/06/2007 10:00:06 by System_failureGTz »
 

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« Reply #16 on: 04/06/2007 10:10:36 »
well they would be finishing it wouldnt they withdrawing troops would end the war then peacemakers could go over and attempt to restore peace without using violence.

i was not going to comment on this topic, for various reasons...but. When the Americans, British...pull out and leave whatever Iraqi force in control this will not stop any violence. It will escallate, also. No country in their right mind will send peacekeepers in. To think they would is plain naive.
 

Offline System_failureGTz

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« Reply #17 on: 04/06/2007 10:33:52 »
it is going to escalate with troops still there if not more so AND I WOULD GO AS A PEACEMAKER
 

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« Reply #18 on: 04/06/2007 14:17:18 »
Kadie,

I stated my opinion in general above, but did not address specific issues that you raised because you wanted to close off you involvement, and I will address what I have to say to others, so please do not assume I am responding to you - we shall just agree to disagree.

System_failureGTz,

To say that the Middle East is a place that has been at war with itself for thousands of years is an accurate description of any place upon this planet that human civilisation has reached - human beings have been at war wherever there have been human beings.

Specifically with regard to the Middle East, it was actually a fairly stable region of the world for the centuries of the Ottoman Empire, which like any large empire (just as the Roman Empire in Europe and the Mediterranean region, or the British Empire in various parts of the world) was a stabilising influence.

Just as the collapse of the Western Roman empire in Europe lead to the Dark Ages in European history, so the collapse of the British Empire left a lot of wars in its wake in Africa, so too the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in the Middle East left a political vacuum, political instability, and wars, in its wake.

In this political vacuum, it can bring to the fore some vicious tyrants (as we had in Medieval Europe), and thus we had people like Saddam Hussain come forward.  The Americans removed that vicious tyrant, and left in its place the original political vacuum that he had filled.

As Paul mentioned, no outside power is going to be successful in implementing order within that political vacuum.  Not least, no outside power really understands, or at this distance can ever hope to understand, the various internal power struggles and local allegiances that have to be managed within the region.

America's action in recreating the political vacuum that allowed Saddam Hussain to come to power, and merely assuming that from that vacuum something better would naturally arise, was naive in the extreme.

Furthermore, and this was the greatest stupidity of it all, America had just undertaken an exercise in invading Afghanistan, and as was obvious to anybody with any sense of history (something I realise that many American politicians sadly lack) is a major undertaking in itself.  To have committed to an invasion of Iraq before having stabilised the situation in Afghanistan was an act of brazen stupidity that makes the failure of both projects highly likely.  Had America committed itself wholeheartedly to the rebuilding of Afghanistan, without diverting resources to Iraq, it might just (although with no certainty of outcome - many great nations in the past have failed to pacify Afghanistan) have created a showcase that might have made its actions elsewhere in the Middle East more tenable, and no doubt would also have given the US some experience in dealing with Middle Eastern issues that could have helped it deal with an Iraqi invasion at a later date.

As it is, all America has created is the groundwork for two simultaneous and interlinked failures.  Furthermore, prior to the invasion of Iraq, there was no linkage between Iraq and Afghanistan - they were two separate problems that should have been dealt with separately.  The USA has succeeded in creating a linkage, in joining two of its enemies in a common cause where previously there had not been a common cause.  The USA has also given Iran more power and credibility within the region than it had at any time since the time of the Shah.

I am not so naive in believing that the US removing its troops from Iraq will solve the problems there.  The situation the USA created it cannot uncreate.  The best the USA can now do is isolate itself from the situation it has created, because it is powerless to do anything to help, and can only really get itself ever more embroiled in a situation it simply is not capable of controlling.

It is difficult to know whether it is too late to try and refocus on Afghanistan, but if we are not too late to try and make that focus, then at least resources that are freed up in Iraq might have some hope of shoring up the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan.

The problem is that we risk losing even more than Iraq.  If we don't fix the problem in Afghanistan, then we will very likely lose Pakistan as well (and remember that Pakistan is also a nuclear nation).  Losing Iraq might yet be a price we have to pay in order to save Afghanistan, if we are not already too late to save Afghanistan.
 

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« Reply #19 on: 05/06/2007 09:36:44 »
DO YOU THINK IM THAT GOOD AT READING lol
 

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« Reply #20 on: 18/06/2007 18:22:06 »
i don't really want to argue. i don't like arguing. i was kinda cranky this morning and i responded... crankily. lol. this whole war is hard to contemplate. there are many aspects to look at. this morning i was feeling patriotic i suppose.

KDLynn, I admire you for being patriotic. I love patriots, especially patriotic Americans. It's the anti-American citizen that I don't like, anti-Americans who live in freedom because of what America's patriots have fought and died for, and all they ever do is put America down.

To these thankless anti-Americans, everything America does is wrong. We should deport the loud-mouth jerks to Iran. After all, America is a terrible place to live and Iran is so wonderful.
 

Offline DammitDewd

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« Reply #21 on: 18/06/2007 18:34:07 »
Kadie,

I stated my opinion in general above, but did not address specific issues that you raised because you wanted to close off you involvement, and I will address what I have to say to others, so please do not assume I am responding to you - we shall just agree to disagree.

System_failureGTz,

To say that the Middle East is a place that has been at war with itself for thousands of years is an accurate description of any place upon this planet that human civilisation has reached - human beings have been at war wherever there have been human beings.

Specifically with regard to the Middle East, it was actually a fairly stable region of the world for the centuries of the Ottoman Empire, which like any large empire (just as the Roman Empire in Europe and the Mediterranean region, or the British Empire in various parts of the world) was a stabilising influence.

Just as the collapse of the Western Roman empire in Europe lead to the Dark Ages in European history, so the collapse of the British Empire left a lot of wars in its wake in Africa, so too the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in the Middle East left a political vacuum, political instability, and wars, in its wake.

In this political vacuum, it can bring to the fore some vicious tyrants (as we had in Medieval Europe), and thus we had people like Saddam Hussain come forward.  The Americans removed that vicious tyrant, and left in its place the original political vacuum that he had filled.

As Paul mentioned, no outside power is going to be successful in implementing order within that political vacuum.  Not least, no outside power really understands, or at this distance can ever hope to understand, the various internal power struggles and local allegiances that have to be managed within the region.

America's action in recreating the political vacuum that allowed Saddam Hussain to come to power, and merely assuming that from that vacuum something better would naturally arise, was naive in the extreme.

Furthermore, and this was the greatest stupidity of it all, America had just undertaken an exercise in invading Afghanistan, and as was obvious to anybody with any sense of history (something I realise that many American politicians sadly lack) is a major undertaking in itself.  To have committed to an invasion of Iraq before having stabilised the situation in Afghanistan was an act of brazen stupidity that makes the failure of both projects highly likely.  Had America committed itself wholeheartedly to the rebuilding of Afghanistan, without diverting resources to Iraq, it might just (although with no certainty of outcome - many great nations in the past have failed to pacify Afghanistan) have created a showcase that might have made its actions elsewhere in the Middle East more tenable, and no doubt would also have given the US some experience in dealing with Middle Eastern issues that could have helped it deal with an Iraqi invasion at a later date.

As it is, all America has created is the groundwork for two simultaneous and interlinked failures.  Furthermore, prior to the invasion of Iraq, there was no linkage between Iraq and Afghanistan - they were two separate problems that should have been dealt with separately.  The USA has succeeded in creating a linkage, in joining two of its enemies in a common cause where previously there had not been a common cause.  The USA has also given Iran more power and credibility within the region than it had at any time since the time of the Shah.

I am not so naive in believing that the US removing its troops from Iraq will solve the problems there.  The situation the USA created it cannot uncreate.  The best the USA can now do is isolate itself from the situation it has created, because it is powerless to do anything to help, and can only really get itself ever more embroiled in a situation it simply is not capable of controlling.

It is difficult to know whether it is too late to try and refocus on Afghanistan, but if we are not too late to try and make that focus, then at least resources that are freed up in Iraq might have some hope of shoring up the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan.

The problem is that we risk losing even more than Iraq.  If we don't fix the problem in Afghanistan, then we will very likely lose Pakistan as well (and remember that Pakistan is also a nuclear nation).  Losing Iraq might yet be a price we have to pay in order to save Afghanistan, if we are not already too late to save Afghanistan.

AS, at the risk of pissing you off, may I ask how you become so smart? Were you born knowing everythng? You know more than our government experts.

But, maybe you should give it a rest while you learn how to read? You misinterpret almost everything posted to you. Surely you don't do this on purpose?  
 

jolly

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« Reply #22 on: 18/06/2007 21:02:47 »
Kadie,

I stated my opinion in general above, but did not address specific issues that you raised because you wanted to close off you involvement, and I will address what I have to say to others, so please do not assume I am responding to you - we shall just agree to disagree.

System_failureGTz,

To say that the Middle East is a place that has been at war with itself for thousands of years is an accurate description of any place upon this planet that human civilisation has reached - human beings have been at war wherever there have been human beings.

Specifically with regard to the Middle East, it was actually a fairly stable region of the world for the centuries of the Ottoman Empire, which like any large empire (just as the Roman Empire in Europe and the Mediterranean region, or the British Empire in various parts of the world) was a stabilising influence.

Just as the collapse of the Western Roman empire in Europe lead to the Dark Ages in European history, so the collapse of the British Empire left a lot of wars in its wake in Africa, so too the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in the Middle East left a political vacuum, political instability, and wars, in its wake.

In this political vacuum, it can bring to the fore some vicious tyrants (as we had in Medieval Europe), and thus we had people like Saddam Hussain come forward.  The Americans removed that vicious tyrant, and left in its place the original political vacuum that he had filled.

As Paul mentioned, no outside power is going to be successful in implementing order within that political vacuum.  Not least, no outside power really understands, or at this distance can ever hope to understand, the various internal power struggles and local allegiances that have to be managed within the region.

America's action in recreating the political vacuum that allowed Saddam Hussain to come to power, and merely assuming that from that vacuum something better would naturally arise, was naive in the extreme.

Furthermore, and this was the greatest stupidity of it all, America had just undertaken an exercise in invading Afghanistan, and as was obvious to anybody with any sense of history (something I realise that many American politicians sadly lack) is a major undertaking in itself.  To have committed to an invasion of Iraq before having stabilised the situation in Afghanistan was an act of brazen stupidity that makes the failure of both projects highly likely.  Had America committed itself wholeheartedly to the rebuilding of Afghanistan, without diverting resources to Iraq, it might just (although with no certainty of outcome - many great nations in the past have failed to pacify Afghanistan) have created a showcase that might have made its actions elsewhere in the Middle East more tenable, and no doubt would also have given the US some experience in dealing with Middle Eastern issues that could have helped it deal with an Iraqi invasion at a later date.

As it is, all America has created is the groundwork for two simultaneous and interlinked failures.  Furthermore, prior to the invasion of Iraq, there was no linkage between Iraq and Afghanistan - they were two separate problems that should have been dealt with separately.  The USA has succeeded in creating a linkage, in joining two of its enemies in a common cause where previously there had not been a common cause.  The USA has also given Iran more power and credibility within the region than it had at any time since the time of the Shah.

I am not so naive in believing that the US removing its troops from Iraq will solve the problems there.  The situation the USA created it cannot uncreate.  The best the USA can now do is isolate itself from the situation it has created, because it is powerless to do anything to help, and can only really get itself ever more embroiled in a situation it simply is not capable of controlling.

It is difficult to know whether it is too late to try and refocus on Afghanistan, but if we are not too late to try and make that focus, then at least resources that are freed up in Iraq might have some hope of shoring up the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan.

The problem is that we risk losing even more than Iraq.  If we don't fix the problem in Afghanistan, then we will very likely lose Pakistan as well (and remember that Pakistan is also a nuclear nation).  Losing Iraq might yet be a price we have to pay in order to save Afghanistan, if we are not already too late to save Afghanistan.

AS, at the risk of pissing you off, may I ask how you become so smart? Were you born knowing everythng? You know more than our government experts.

But, maybe you should give it a rest while you learn how to read? You misinterpret almost everything posted to you. Surely you don't do this on purpose?  

Please explain yourself dewd, I dont see it!


i don't really want to argue. i don't like arguing. i was kinda cranky this morning and i responded... crankily. lol. this whole war is hard to contemplate. there are many aspects to look at. this morning i was feeling patriotic i suppose.

KDLynn, I admire you for being patriotic. I love patriots, especially patriotic Americans. It's the anti-American citizen that I don't like, anti-Americans who live in freedom because of what America's patriots have fought and died for, and all they ever do is put America down.

To these thankless anti-Americans, everything America does is wrong. We should deport the loud-mouth jerks to Iran. After all, America is a terrible place to live and Iran is so wonderful.

It is the duty of every patriot to defend its countrymen from its government!

But to critise american policy, be you american or not is hardly anti-american, in a free society people are allowed their opinions, if you stand against that, then I would say that really DEWD you are anti-american as you do not stand up for freedom!

It is disgusting that in the name of freedom, you try to stop people speaking their minds!

As George Orwell once put it, “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.”
« Last Edit: 24/06/2007 22:08:02 by jolly »
 

another_someone

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« Reply #23 on: 18/06/2007 23:11:27 »
AS, at the risk of pissing you off, may I ask how you become so smart? Were you born knowing everythng? You know more than our government experts.

But, maybe you should give it a rest while you learn how to read? You misinterpret almost everything posted to you. Surely you don't do this on purpose?   

Let me assure you that I have far too many grey hairs upon my head to allow myself to become pissed off by something like this.
 

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« Reply #23 on: 18/06/2007 23:11:27 »

 

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