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Author Topic: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference  (Read 18135 times)

Offline Titanscape

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At first glance pond amoebas and white blood cels look alike, but what differences can you find in them? In the appearance, structure insisde and out and in their function? Also their needs remembering they are sometimes responsible for amoebic dysentry?

This is something which struck my mind for R and D since if pond amoeba can be modified to act like a baboon or rabbits white blood cell it would cure dideases! The idea of using disease to fight disease became popular around the late nineties. They even modified mice to produce cells which work theoretically in a human specimen.

However the project ended because of the cross species contamination threat. This can be solved for sure with simple single celled organisms.

Would you like to research this with me?


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Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #1 on: 17/04/2004 09:24:31 »
I don't understand how single celled organisms would make the problem simpler.  They are evem (much) more genetically removed from us than the lower order mamals that you mentioned, and thus our bodies would recognize them as forgien even easier.  I work with some of the leadin researchers in xeno-transplantation (transplanting animal organs into humans)  while I don't understand much of their work (because imuno-bio is NOT my thing)  I have come to the understanding that putting something not human into a human is DARN difficult!

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Offline Titanscape

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #2 on: 17/04/2004 20:24:18 »
The thing is that amoebas are genetically simple. And being only one cell and not big like mice means you can see if it is infected with a virus which could thereaten humans with cross species contamination. For the virus would kill the cell rapidly indeed. Attacking the sole nucleus. Furthermore single celled organisms can be flushed. And samples from a flushed culture can be cut and viewed under an electron microscope. Also they can be mashed and applied to agar jelly.

Flushing. Take ten beakers full of amoeba nutrients, all fully sterile, in a sterile lab. Take one apparently healthy amoeba and put it into the solution. After culturing remove samples for testing for infection. Agar, observation under a light microscope, and electron microscope. If all is clear add from this beaker a healthy specimen to the next sterile culturing beaker and repeat the process...

The maintain the flushed amoebas in a special sterile tank of nutrients. From here we have specimens to use for genetic modification with no threat of cross species contamination.

Their surface membranes would need to be modified to appear to the human inmmune system to be fully human. They would need to move like a human cell thru the many human tissues. They would need to work well in a hot body and I think amoebic dysentry cells already do... Very importantly they would need to attack viruses... like a baboon or rabbit  white cell. But not healthy human cells.

Thus an injection of such amoebas into the blood stream would give the patient an animals immunity. Immunity to aids or tuberculosis or hepatits c... Perhaps cancer. Also the amoebas can be killed later with a conventional anti-amoebic agent.

So then a man from death row and some animals could contribute DNA for the GM of the amoeba.

How is that? I got the idea back in 99 and my Dr friend agreed with me and contributed some of those ideas.


Titanscape
« Last Edit: 17/04/2004 20:29:42 by Titanscape »
 

Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #3 on: 18/04/2004 08:20:13 »
well, I'm still very skeptical, but at least I kind of see where you are going with this idea now (I was clueless before).  I just think the tasks proposed in your 4th paragraph seem nearly impossible to accomnplish with our current technology.  But I do very much appreciate people proposing such novel ideas in here.

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Offline Titanscape

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #4 on: 18/04/2004 21:28:27 »
Well you know my fellow that they already did genetically modify mice to produce cells that appear to be human, ie with regards to the surface membrane... Imagine getting a blood transfusion from a mouse.

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Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #5 on: 18/04/2004 22:33:22 »
Yes I know that, and I personally work with people who are doing it in pigs too, but even in small experimental lab quantities with mamals taht are very similar to humans it is very difficult.  I think that large-scale applications of this (especially with organisms as genetically distant as amobeas) would be quite tough at this point

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Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #6 on: 17/04/2004 09:24:31 »
I don't understand how single celled organisms would make the problem simpler.  They are evem (much) more genetically removed from us than the lower order mamals that you mentioned, and thus our bodies would recognize them as forgien even easier.  I work with some of the leadin researchers in xeno-transplantation (transplanting animal organs into humans)  while I don't understand much of their work (because imuno-bio is NOT my thing)  I have come to the understanding that putting something not human into a human is DARN difficult!

Lift your skinny fists, like antennas to hevan!
 

Offline Titanscape

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #7 on: 17/04/2004 20:24:18 »
The thing is that amoebas are genetically simple. And being only one cell and not big like mice means you can see if it is infected with a virus which could thereaten humans with cross species contamination. For the virus would kill the cell rapidly indeed. Attacking the sole nucleus. Furthermore single celled organisms can be flushed. And samples from a flushed culture can be cut and viewed under an electron microscope. Also they can be mashed and applied to agar jelly.

Flushing. Take ten beakers full of amoeba nutrients, all fully sterile, in a sterile lab. Take one apparently healthy amoeba and put it into the solution. After culturing remove samples for testing for infection. Agar, observation under a light microscope, and electron microscope. If all is clear add from this beaker a healthy specimen to the next sterile culturing beaker and repeat the process...

The maintain the flushed amoebas in a special sterile tank of nutrients. From here we have specimens to use for genetic modification with no threat of cross species contamination.

Their surface membranes would need to be modified to appear to the human inmmune system to be fully human. They would need to move like a human cell thru the many human tissues. They would need to work well in a hot body and I think amoebic dysentry cells already do... Very importantly they would need to attack viruses... like a baboon or rabbit  white cell. But not healthy human cells.

Thus an injection of such amoebas into the blood stream would give the patient an animals immunity. Immunity to aids or tuberculosis or hepatits c... Perhaps cancer. Also the amoebas can be killed later with a conventional anti-amoebic agent.

So then a man from death row and some animals could contribute DNA for the GM of the amoeba.

How is that? I got the idea back in 99 and my Dr friend agreed with me and contributed some of those ideas.


Titanscape
« Last Edit: 17/04/2004 20:29:42 by Titanscape »
 

Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #8 on: 18/04/2004 08:20:13 »
well, I'm still very skeptical, but at least I kind of see where you are going with this idea now (I was clueless before).  I just think the tasks proposed in your 4th paragraph seem nearly impossible to accomnplish with our current technology.  But I do very much appreciate people proposing such novel ideas in here.

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Offline Titanscape

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #9 on: 18/04/2004 21:28:27 »
Well you know my fellow that they already did genetically modify mice to produce cells that appear to be human, ie with regards to the surface membrane... Imagine getting a blood transfusion from a mouse.

Titanscape
 

Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #10 on: 18/04/2004 22:33:22 »
Yes I know that, and I personally work with people who are doing it in pigs too, but even in small experimental lab quantities with mamals taht are very similar to humans it is very difficult.  I think that large-scale applications of this (especially with organisms as genetically distant as amobeas) would be quite tough at this point

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Offline chris

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #11 on: 19/04/2004 04:39:04 »
This is an intriguing idea but is likely to prove difficult in practice. However, scientists are thinking along these lines in employing 'bugs that can kill bugs'. A group at Nottingham University, in the UK, are looking at a strain of predatory bacteria that can hunt down and eat other bacteria but cannot infect human cells, and scientists in many labs are researching the therapeutic potential of bacteriophages (viruses which prey on bacteria).

The problem that unites these ambitious strategies is that the body will still fail to recognise these 'therapeutic friendlies' and will attack them with as much enthusiasm as genuine invaders.
 
It's a great idea though, and one which I'm sure someone is working on somewhere in the world.

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Offline tweener

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #12 on: 20/04/2004 02:55:12 »
What about the research into making "micro-robots" that can travel through the bloodstream and do things at certain points in the body?  I don't know much, but I've heard there is active research.

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Offline chris

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #13 on: 20/04/2004 05:47:28 »
Have a look at this article by Barry Gibb about nanotechnology and nanomedicine - http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/articles/article/barrygibbcolumn.htm

Chris

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Offline Titanscape

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #14 on: 29/04/2004 19:27:08 »
Does anyone know where I can find a map of an amoeba's DNA?

Titanscape
« Last Edit: 29/04/2004 19:28:15 by Titanscape »
 

Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #15 on: 30/04/2004 00:10:40 »
I'm not sure if it has been mapped, only very commonly used research species have had their genomes mapped as it is a very tedious process (even for small genomes, and even with the sequencing technology we have today).  I'll look for you though.

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Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #16 on: 01/05/2004 07:52:17 »
Can't find anything, I'm guessing it doesn't exist.  I have a copy of the drosophila genome I could hook ya up with as a consolation prize ;)

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Offline Titanscape

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #17 on: 01/05/2004 19:25:05 »
Thanks for your replies, especially MayoFlyFarmer.

Titanscape
 

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Re: Amoebas and white blood cells, spot the difference
« Reply #17 on: 01/05/2004 19:25:05 »

 

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