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Author Topic: The storage of human eggs.  (Read 2795 times)

Offline dentstudent

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The storage of human eggs.
« on: 10/07/2007 09:04:39 »
This might be a contraversial topic - we'll see.....

I was listening to something about the storage of a mothers eggs that could be used by her daughter in the future, as the daughter was having to undergo some chemotherapy. It was also discussed of the storage of eggs now, so that the lady could have a career, then when she wanted a child and if she wasn't fertile in the future, she could dip into the reserve and become pregnant (a simplification, but the essence is there).

What do you think about this kind of "savings account"? What do you think about having a baby as a sort of commodity? Do you think that it is a right to be able to have children? What do you think about women effectively being their sister's mother?

I'm asking these questions without judgement - I'd be interested in your thoughts.....


 

Offline Karen W.

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The storage of human eggs.
« Reply #1 on: 10/07/2007 09:14:21 »
Wow that is confusing! I think it is a wonderful thing for a person unable to do or carry their own egg to term or what have you.. but just for peer convienience seems odd, I am not sure how I would feel. although it is similar about a man saving his sperm for another time when he is ready to be a father or until he has met the right women.. So I am knd of for it but still not positively for it there are pros and cons and I am not sure if faced with it what I myself might do... I just don't know..
 

Offline dentstudent

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The storage of human eggs.
« Reply #2 on: 10/07/2007 09:17:15 »
Wow that is confusing! I think it is a wonderful thing for a person unable to do or carry their own egg to term or what have you.. but just for peer convienience seems odd, I am not sure how I would feel. although it is similar about a man saving his sperm for another time when he is ready to be a father or until he has met the right women.. So I am knd of for it but still not positively for it there are pros and cons and I am not sure if faced with it what I myself might do... I just don't know..

This reflects some of my thoughts.....on the one hand, it's amazing that we can do these things, but on the other, I'm not sure that a lot of them are morally justifiable.
 

Offline Karen W.

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The storage of human eggs.
« Reply #3 on: 10/07/2007 09:26:34 »
Exactly. I never choose for another how what they do with their own bodies but for myself some of these things would never be an option.. That is also a dilemma for me when thinking about transplanted organs etc.. It is wonderful and many have been saved to live longer healthier lives, but If faced with it myself..I don't know that I could take a transplant! Not physically but Psychologically.
 

another_someone

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The storage of human eggs.
« Reply #4 on: 10/07/2007 11:51:07 »
What do you think about this kind of "savings account"? What do you think about having a baby as a sort of commodity? Do you think that it is a right to be able to have children? What do you think about women effectively being their sister's mother?

How is it more or less a commodity than adoption?
 

Offline dentstudent

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The storage of human eggs.
« Reply #5 on: 10/07/2007 12:00:07 »
What do you think about this kind of "savings account"? What do you think about having a baby as a sort of commodity? Do you think that it is a right to be able to have children? What do you think about women effectively being their sister's mother?

How is it more or less a commodity than adoption?

I've no idea - this is part of the reason for my asking!
 

paul.fr

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The storage of human eggs.
« Reply #6 on: 10/07/2007 12:04:47 »
Personally i don't think women have a right to be mothers, as men don't have the right to be fathers. There are treatments for both. Neither do i think women or men have a right to expect free fertility treatment on the NHS.
 

another_someone

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The storage of human eggs.
« Reply #7 on: 10/07/2007 13:50:01 »
Personally i don't think women have a right to be mothers, as men don't have the right to be fathers. There are treatments for both. Neither do i think women or men have a right to expect free fertility treatment on the NHS.

Rights are a wholly subjective issue.

Article 12 of the ECHR allow for the right to marry and create a family - it is ambiguous as to what the term 'create a family' means, but the fact that it is in addition to marriage implies that it could be interpreted to the right to have children.

Ofcourse, your own private notion of rights may well differ from either UK national law, or the ECHR, and that is why the whole notion of rights is so subjective.

In general, there are some social benefits in giving people the right to have children.  Parents on the whole are more law abiding citizens than people (even married adults) who are not parents.  On the other hand, older people are generally more law abiding anyway, so within this context the incremental advantage in giving older people the right to have children is less than the incremental benefit to society in giving younger people the right to have children.  Breakup of family life is a major contributor to reoffending for convicted criminals (some countries actually allow their prisoners conjugal rights in the belief that this will motivate the prisoner to behave better in prison, and behave better when leaving prison - and similarly, giving them access to their children (which is only possible if they have children) will also contribute to this).

Whether creating an environment where citizens are better behaved is of itself a basis for creating a right is ofcourse a subjective issue in itself.

The question that arises is, if adults do not have a right to have children, then how should children be begotten?  Should children only be accidents that happen, without any right to plan for it, nor any right to desire it (or at least to expect such a desire to be a determining factor in the outcome)?
 

paul.fr

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The storage of human eggs.
« Reply #8 on: 10/07/2007 14:10:56 »
The question that arises is, if adults do not have a right to have children, then how should children be begotten?  Should children only be accidents that happen, without any right to plan for it, nor any right to desire it (or at least to expect such a desire to be a determining factor in the outcome)?

For clarification, i am not arguing that adults don't have a right to have children, although i don't think they do. I just don't think they have a right to free fertility treatment to have those children.

Sure it is sad when you know someone who can not naturally conceive, but do they have a right to have children? Children (or the means of producing them) are not a right that you have, we are not entitled to have them. This is where adoption plays a role, granted, adoption is not that same as giving birth to your own flesh and blood.

where do you draw the line, do we have the right to select sex? or even to screen for abnormalities? I would say no, if you want to have children you should not also have the additional "right" to select that child.
 

another_someone

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The storage of human eggs.
« Reply #9 on: 10/07/2007 14:35:52 »
For clarification, i am not arguing that adults don't have a right to have children, although i don't think they do. I just don't think they have a right to free fertility treatment to have those children.

Sure it is sad when you know someone who can not naturally conceive, but do they have a right to have children? Children (or the means of producing them) are not a right that you have, we are not entitled to have them. This is where adoption plays a role, granted, adoption is not that same as giving birth to your own flesh and blood.

where do you draw the line, do we have the right to select sex? or even to screen for abnormalities? I would say no, if you want to have children you should not also have the additional "right" to select that child.

The trouble is that I have spent too many hours running around in circles over debates about rights.

A right is just an arbitrary position one takes over an issue.  It is either your personal (or maybe, a collectively agreed) position; or just a statement of religion that says one book of words makes this right, whereas a different book of words makes something else right.

The only basis I can see for trying to justify a right (rather than merely take an arbitrary personal position) is from the perspective of social utility.

From the point of view of social utility, as I have indicated, there is some advantage is giving people the right to have children; but I can see no benefit in allowing them to screen for the child they have, although there may be some social advantage in allowing children to be screened for abnormalities based on what society feels it can afford (e.g. if it is considered that children with some abnormalities would be too great a drain on social resources, it might make sense to screen for them before birth).  Equally, on an individual level, there is no particular argument against screening for sex, and other features; the problem that arises is when every family values the same thing, and so in allowing each family the choice about their child, they all choose similar children, and so reduce the diversity of the population (e.g. if all families want boys, then it presents a problem in their being a lack of girls; but if an equal number of families want boys as want girls, then it presents relatively little social cost in allowing families to choose which sex they would wish their child to be).  One should also ask (and I am not saying that I know the answer) who would make a better parent, the parent who has chosen their child, or the parent who is given a child they did not choose?
 

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The storage of human eggs.
« Reply #9 on: 10/07/2007 14:35:52 »

 

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