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Author Topic: Does inserting a spoon into a bottle of Champagne stop it going flat?  (Read 17228 times)

Offline Lukas.S

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Good morning

Please can somebody explain me what is the thinking behind putting a spoon in the neck of an open bottle of Champagne to prevent it from going flat. Why should this work?

Thank you
« Last Edit: 21/07/2007 22:27:32 by chris »


 

Offline Karen W.

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You know I am not sure about the champagne I imagine it is the same,but I know it works with soda . I think it should also be stainless steel.

We could try moving this topic to chemistry and someone there might be able to help you. I knew what you meant and have actually tried it with some success but I don't understand the principle behind the procedure! If you would like I can move your whole topic to chemistry! Let me know!
 

another_someone

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I moved it out of chat the first time.

I don't really think this is a chemistry question either (although I am loathed to ping pong it around the site).

The CO2 itself I think is created as a biological process (bacteria or fungus), and the fact that the bubbles are more likely to form on a spoon, etc., is about nucleation, which is a physical process (the CO2 is saturated in the liquid, and you put the spoon in to bring it out of solution).
 

Offline Lukas.S

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 no no no
You put spoon in the bottleneck, not inside the liquid. You want to keep left champaign fresh. I do not know also why you do not just seal the bottle properly with the cork why is better non_caulk spoon.
 

Offline Karen W.

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Humm, I don't know why its better not to cork it or put a lid on it! I only know about the spoon thing.
 

paul.fr

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i think this is a myth. The ability of any liquid to hold on to any gas is dependent on (a) the temperature -as the temperature of the solution goes up, the solubility goes down, (b) pressure - the higher the external atmospheric pressure of the gas dissolved in the liquid, the more the gas will be dissolved. It might be possible that when  some silver from the spoon dissolves into the champagne - the acid in the champagne leaching out some of the silver, that the properties of the liquid will be altered. However, the amount of  silver that could dissolve in this particular situation is so small  that it will have a negligible effect on the properties of the  liquid. Moreover, putting a spoon (or any rough surfaced object)  into the champagne bottle will cause the insertion of nucleation  points - surfaces where bubbles can form - thus, inserting a spoon  handle would only serve to speed up the gas' escape.

Here is a link to a Stanford University item: http://news-service.stanford.edu/pr/94/941221Arc4008.html
 

Offline neilep

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Ah !!..as a tea-totaller ...this explains my inability to uderstand the original question.

Does this actually work though ?..is it a bona fide fact ?,,as Paul says...I reckon it's a myth !!

Why not just put screw tops on bottles anyway ?...they can still have cork inside them !
 

Offline Karen W.

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Yeah I don't get it.. a spoon in an open soda helps it not go flat so fast, but it will still go flat eventually..
 

paul.fr

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Yeah I don't get it.. a spoon in an open soda helps it not go flat so fast, but it will still go flat eventually..

I dont think it does, you think it does and so have conditioned yourself to percieve this. time for a stupid analogy, slightly off topic but may prove some sort of point.

You have a 2 lite bottle of soda and take the lid/cap off. All the time the cap is off you are losing Co2, so the drink is getting flatter. Do you pop a silver spoon on the bottle or just put the cap back on after pouring?
 

Offline Simulated

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I moved it out of chat the first time.

I don't really think this is a chemistry question either (although I am loathed to ping pong it around the site).

The CO2 itself I think is created as a biological process (bacteria or fungus), and the fact that the bubbles are more likely to form on a spoon, etc., is about nucleation, which is a physical process (the CO2 is saturated in the liquid, and you put the spoon in to bring it out of solution).

Thanks for the explanation..

Same train of thought. I don't know anything about chapaign so I should leave, unless I can learn something.
 

Offline Lukas.S

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Originally from Czech Republic. now in France and do not understand any french. Anyway any french people can solve champaign myth. excuse me I am out of order. The champaign is making, make, have made, had made me crazy.
 

Offline Karen W.

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LOL... it is ok Lukas..
 

Offline Karen W.

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Yeah I don't get it.. a spoon in an open soda helps it not go flat so fast, but it will still go flat eventually..

I don't think it does, you think it does and so have conditioned yourself to perceive this. time for a stupid analogy, slightly off topic but may prove some sort of point.

You have a 2 lite bottle of soda and take the lid/cap off. All the time the cap is off you are losing Co2, so the drink is getting flatter. Do you pop a silver spoon on the bottle or just put the cap back on after pouring?


That may be true as I have only tried a few times with a can of soda. no lid to put back on. I have inserted the spoon handle all the way into the liquid... Perhaps it was my imagination but I always felt it helped. As far as a bottle of soda say a litter bottle I agree putting the cap back on does a splendid job in preventing bubbly dissipation.
 

Offline Lukas.S

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some labs in France made studies of this. It is the myth. where and when originate this myth I am asking.  
 

paul.fr

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some labs in France made studies of this. It is the myth. where and when originate this myth I am asking.  

Yes they did, Lucas. I also believe (could be wrong) that one of their chemists was on TNS some time back and explained this. As for when the myth started, i have no idea
 

Offline Simulated

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Originally from Czech Republic. now in France and do not understand any french. Anyway any french people can solve champaign myth. excuse me I am out of order. The champaign is making, make, have made, had made me crazy.

HAHA its fine. I think I might stick around on this one to learn a bit. Thanks!
 

Offline that mad man

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In proper champagne the C02 gets there from the original fermentation process but in most "sparkling" wines and drinks the C02 is added later.

The yeast feeds off the sugars in the grapes turning it to alcohol and dissolved C02.

Re corking a champagne bottle is very hard and shouldn't be necessary as it is meant to be drunk until empty. Re sealing and keeping for another time drastically spoils the taste.  ;)

Unfortunately Lukas.S, its hard to trace the origin of myths.

Bee
 

Offline Lukas.S

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check the disputation in 2005 (Champagne and a spoon...)I have no reason to have reason. despite my mind and body every time want it.
 

Offline Lukas.S

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Know now that champaign is opened landscape.
 

Offline neilep

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I just found this:

It's from the TV Program MYTHBUSTERS:

Placing a silver spoon in a bottle of champagne can keep it more bubbly for longer.

Busted

 The spoon actually reduces the fizziness of champagne. In a blind taste test when compared to several controls (opened champagne, re-corked champagne and unopened champagne) both Adam and Jamie ranked the spooned champagne the lowest in terms of fizziness.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MythBusters_special_episodes      (scroll down)
 

paul.fr

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good god! does that mean i was right? shurely shome mistake, i need to lie down.
 

paul.fr

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just a passing thought, and to simplify part of my earlier post. Wouldn't/Doesn't extra nucleation sites make the drink - be it champagne or cola - go flatter quicker? Notice how cola goes flat more quickly when ice is added. Perhaps someone would like to start this as a new topic.
« Last Edit: 21/07/2007 09:19:36 by paul.fr »
 

Offline neilep

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good god! does that mean i was right? shurely shome mistake, i need to lie down.

 

Offline Simulated

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Neil how many of those things do you have? LoL.

Notice how cola goes flat more quickly when ice is added.

It does? I put ice in it all the time and I don't notice a difference. Taste or Viewing it.

 

paul.fr

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Notice how cola goes flat more quickly when ice is added.

It does? I put ice in it all the time and I don't notice a difference. Taste or Viewing it.



Viewing and taste, In a previous lifetime in the pubtrade this action is noticable. Customers who like ice in their drinks and sit and sip very ofen complain that their drink is flat. This (i believe) is due to the ice and increased nucleation sites. Lightarrow amongst others may well prove me wrong, but nothing unusual there.
 

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