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Offline Simulated

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Ghost..
« on: 21/07/2007 01:20:56 »
Are they real?

I was watching a show on SciFi and it is titled "Ghost Hunters". There was this thing called the K2 meter. They could "talk to the ghost" with it. They would ask the ghost a question like are you a female? 2 spikes for yes 1 for no. (Spike on the meter). And they would answer that question. Then they go are there more of you around here? The Ghost would answer with a yes or no.

This sort of freaked me out because they keep the meter going.

Then later in the show they asked the ghost to drop the room temperature from 69 degrees to 62. And surprisingly it did. Just that one little area.

Now if this is not proff (idk how to spell it) that there are ghost then I don't know what would be.

What are you opinions on this topic?


 

paul.fr

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Ghost..
« Reply #1 on: 21/07/2007 06:36:32 »
Simple answer, no ghosts do not exist.
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #2 on: 21/07/2007 09:31:35 »
Are they real?

I was watching a show on SciFi and it is titled "Ghost Hunters". There was this thing called the K2 meter. They could "talk to the ghost" with it. They would ask the ghost a question like are you a female? 2 spikes for yes 1 for no. (Spike on the meter). And they would answer that question. Then they go are there more of you around here? The Ghost would answer with a yes or no.

This sort of freaked me out because they keep the meter going.


Ok. firstly these shows are about showing you the ghost, relying on the people that watch them to also believe that ghosts exist. They then use dodgy science, or rely on the viewer not knowing their science to prove the existance of the ghost.

The k2 meter is an EMF Detector, otherwise known as electromagnetic field detectors, they are supposed to pick up on  an apparent electrical field being caused by the ghost, what they actually pick up on are electrical fields caused by electrical objects.

But, no you say. the room was empty, and void of any electrical items such as a tv for instance. Well the walls will still have electrical cable inside them, this will be picked up by the detector and so will their broadcasting equiptment. It's all just a con, plain and simple.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #3 on: 21/07/2007 09:31:54 »
Simple answer, yes ghosts do exist. The question should be "What are they?"
 

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« Reply #4 on: 21/07/2007 09:35:26 »
Paul - there was a study a while back to do with where ghosts are most often seen. Results showed that most ghost hotspots displayed higher levels of EM from the environment.

I can't remember who it was who did the research, but I'm pretty sure it was a uni. I'll try to find something about it.

I've found this. It's a bit old but I think it's all part of the same research. I'll see if I can find more.

http://www.haque.co.uk/haunt.php

And there are some papers to download here...

http://www.apaw71.dsl.pipex.com/MADS/htmlfiles/Papers.html
« Last Edit: 21/07/2007 09:42:42 by DoctorBeaver »
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #5 on: 21/07/2007 09:44:51 »
Simple answer, yes ghosts do exist. The question should be "What are they?"

Doc, i just don't believe it. These are all commercial money making programmes, if you visit a haunted house you expect to see or feel something because you have been told before hand that there is a ghost there.

you will also have had this ghosts appearance discribed to you, and hay presto you have your vision and guess what, its the same man/woman or you felt that ghostly chill whilst walking a draughty coridor in an old house/castle.

All of these people carry cameras, why have they never managed to provide us with a clear cut photo?
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #6 on: 21/07/2007 09:50:51 »
i posted before you put those links in, so here are a few counter links to enjoy. the second link contains video clips.

http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/

http://www.randi.org/
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #7 on: 21/07/2007 09:57:27 »
I appreciate that the TV programs are commercial and, as such, go for sensationalism. I've watched a few of them and they are total rubbish.

However, as you may or may not be aware, I've been a student of mysticism & the occult for quite a few years. I've experienced things that seem to defy scientific explanation. I do, though, have a sort-of theory which, guess what, is to do with QM.

Actually, I can't even say that it's a theory yet. It's just a vague inkling I've got. But the more I learn about QM, the better it seems to fit.

I'll try to write down an explanation (not easy as I think more in images than words) & post it here sometime so that you, George, Ian et al can rip it to shreds.  ;D
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #8 on: 21/07/2007 09:58:21 »
Randi annoys me. If a ghost jumped out & bit him on the nose he'd deny it had happened.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #9 on: 21/07/2007 10:01:24 »
Thanks for the links. Unfortunately I haven't time to read them yet as I'm going to be very busy today.

We're off to Kent tomorrow to pick up 1 of Sandra's brothers & her sister's year-old niece so we're blitzing the house today. That's not easy with the brats making more mess as fast as we clear up.
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #10 on: 21/07/2007 10:03:27 »
Randi annoys me. If a ghost jumped out & bit him on the nose he'd deny it had happened.

that is true, but i like the man. i still hold to the power of persuasion, and the people on such shows are obviously very open to persuasion.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #11 on: 21/07/2007 10:22:29 »
Randi annoys me. If a ghost jumped out & bit him on the nose he'd deny it had happened.

i still hold to the power of persuasion, and the people on such shows are obviously very open to persuasion.

Oh, absolutely. It's the same with a lot of "mediums". I went to a theatre once to see a show with a medium. I only went out of curiosity. I was astounded how gullible the audience was. The tricks the medium used were so transparent.

OK, I'm a psychologist so maybe I'm a bit more aware than the average person of how suggestion works. But the way some members of the audience were reeled in was, to be honest, quite scary.

The medium would say something like "I'm getting a message from John. Does anyone know a John who passed away?". Half the audience put up their hands thinking the message is for them. Then the medium says "It's for someone over this side of the theatre". That means 25% are still interested. Medium keeps narrowing it down slightly each time until 1 person is convinced it's a personal message from them. By the time the medium has finished, the person is certain the medium "Got the name, the place, etc etc spot on". Yeah sure!
 

Offline Simulated

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« Reply #12 on: 21/07/2007 14:27:52 »
Thanks Guys? LoL.
 

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« Reply #13 on: 25/07/2007 18:54:24 »
I would like to think that they are not real otherwise I would go crazy trying to find out where they live and why.

And how come they always moan and rattle chains? Why are there no "modern" ghosts?
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #14 on: 25/07/2007 22:56:48 »
I would like to think that they are not real otherwise I would go crazy trying to find out where they live and why.

And how come they always moan and rattle chains? Why are there no "modern" ghosts?

It takes a long time to learn how to rattle chains, and ghosts aren't allowed to haunt until they've mastered the art. That's why there are no modern ghosts.
 

Offline Simulated

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« Reply #15 on: 28/07/2007 23:09:42 »
It takes a long time to learn how to rattle chains, and ghosts aren't allowed to haunt until they've mastered the art. That's why there are no modern ghosts.

Wow Doc. Are you sure? That's different!
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #16 on: 28/07/2007 23:49:30 »
It takes a long time to learn how to rattle chains, and ghosts aren't allowed to haunt until they've mastered the art. That's why there are no modern ghosts.

Wow Doc. Are you sure? That's different!

Yes. And learning how to correctly carry one's head under one's arm takes practice too. New ghosts keep banging the top of their necks on things.
 

Offline Simulated

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« Reply #17 on: 28/07/2007 23:51:15 »
Um Doc, your scaring me. LoL.
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #18 on: 28/07/2007 23:53:25 »


And how come they always moan and rattle chains? Why are there no "modern" ghosts?

How frightening would the sound of a ghost tapping away at his PC be?
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #19 on: 28/07/2007 23:57:20 »


And how come they always moan and rattle chains? Why are there no "modern" ghosts?

How frightening would the sound of a ghost tapping away at his PC be?

Or texting on its mobile phone  :o
 

Offline Simulated

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« Reply #20 on: 28/07/2007 23:58:44 »
OMG that would be really messed up.
 

Offline tiger

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« Reply #21 on: 15/08/2007 05:15:10 »
Hello...I'm not new to the forum, but this is my first time posting.

If ghosts were existent, then they would not be able to interact with humans; i.e. we would not be able to see them or otherwise physically detect them.  Thus, there is really no way to know if ghosts exist.  Further, if they were to exist, then this world isn't big enough for all of them (if you take into account the total number of people who've died over the years).

Your 'ghost hunters' or whatever definitely aren't a reliable source.  As some already pointed out, their stuff may be skewed b/c they believe in ghosts.  Their rationality (and perhaps their perception) is slightly altered by their expectations.

For example, a rational person would realise that if ghosts could reduce the temperature of a room, they could otherwise interact with the physical universe, and hence take revenge on those who they hate; in this case, many gangs wouldn't exist.

that's my 2 cents on the subject :)
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #22 on: 15/08/2007 07:25:20 »
Hello Tiger,

do you know how many times women have said that to me ;) you guessed it, none. [:(!]


For example, a rational person would realise that if ghosts could reduce the temperature of a room, they could otherwise interact with the physical universe, and hence take revenge on those who they hate; in this case, many gangs wouldn't exist.

I like your thinking there, after reading it i do hope there are ghosts. That would give me the perfect opportunity to come back and do the revenge thing, i just hope i have the time before Gail porter discovers me and bores me with her annoying accent.


 

Offline dentstudent

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« Reply #23 on: 15/08/2007 10:49:52 »
..and shouldn't there be some sort of correlation between density of populations and density of "ghosts"? There seems o be a very high incidence of sightings in the UK, but very few in other equaly densely inhabited areas. It's a bit like for UFO's, inthat there are certain areas of high frequency sightings (again the UK being one of them). This seems a bit odd, don't you think?
 

another_someone

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« Reply #24 on: 15/08/2007 13:31:36 »
Simple answer, yes ghosts do exist. The question should be "What are they?"

But is this not part of the problem - you have a label, but no clear definition of what that label means?

For a word to have meaning, one must know, in some broad sense (not necessarily with absolute specificity) what it is that the word applies to.
 

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« Reply #24 on: 15/08/2007 13:31:36 »

 

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