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Author Topic: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?  (Read 23828 times)

Offline neilep

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I overhead some colleagues talking about a film called '21 grammes'...or something like that. Apparently, at the point of death you lose this amount of weight, and they claim this film is based on fact !!..Now I find this very hard to accept but can someone give this curious mind of mine some incite please ?

And if it is true, how on earth do they measure it ?

Ta very much.

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« Last Edit: 21/05/2007 22:40:24 by chris »


 

Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #1 on: 30/04/2004 06:15:36 »
24g isn't much...   Its quite possibly true, but the people who think its your "soul" leaving your body or something like that are rather looney if you ask me.  Its probably just the air expelled formyour lungs and other such expulsion of wastes

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Offline roberth

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #2 on: 30/04/2004 06:46:14 »
Actually, the movie is called 21 grams and the title refers to the amount of weight lost when you croak. I do believe it relates to the weight of air expelled at your final breath.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #3 on: 30/04/2004 12:15:30 »
Thanks Justy, thanks Roberth....well that's cleared that up !!...next time the doctor asks me to step onto the scales I'll exhale !! (I need all the help I can get !!)

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Offline tweener

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #4 on: 30/04/2004 16:35:03 »
21 (or 24) grams seems like an awful lot of air - I don't know how to calculate that volume, but it seems like a lot more than a persons lungs could hold.  That's more like what their bladder would hold.

Expelling air from the body would not decrease the person's weight because the surrounding air bouyancy would completely negate the effect.  Technically, it would decrease the mass of the persons body, but not the weight unless they were in a vacuum.

Overall, I think the weight loss is probably a bunch of hooie, and the idea that it has anything to do with a persons "soul" is definitely hooie.

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Offline neilep

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #5 on: 30/04/2004 21:13:49 »
Well..there you have it !!!.......In all honesty (as a non academic --have i mentioned that before?)I did think 21-24 grams was heavy for air...so, I just assumed it was well heavy air !!!...and who am I to disagree with such distinguished educators as you lot......still, i suppose the question lives on....perhaps we could all have a mass-debate ?...(Hey..perhaps that's where the 21 grams cums from...NO !! STOP it Neil...don't go there)....ooops...sorry.

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Offline gsmollin

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #6 on: 01/05/2004 20:02:50 »
If I remember my ideal gas law, 14 g of nitrogen (its atomic weight is 14) would have a volume of 22.4 l at STP. That is way more than the max volume of a pair of lungs. On the other hand, the bladder holds way more than 22 g of fluid. It's at least 500 g. Anyway, everybody would have a different amount of urine, and that could easily be caught and weighed. So I can't explain the 22 g loss. I can't say it's true either.
 

Offline ebzZzZ

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #7 on: 02/05/2004 15:44:39 »


this goes to show you should read the other posts
on the website and compare them,

i refer you to

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=818

this shows the discrepancy in the laws of thermodynamics.

There are biology papers that show there is a hidden inertia
within cells.

the mass actually increases once the organism knows it's about to
die then the mass decreases to a level lower after death.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #8 on: 02/05/2004 16:02:01 »
Thanks Ebzzz...I'll try and remember to scan every single thread on this website before posing any other questions...silly me !!  I should have known to look at your thread 'simple biology for physics experiment'....:D:D;)...interesting stuff though..thanks.



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« Last Edit: 02/05/2004 16:03:47 by neilep »
 

Offline Titanscape

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #9 on: 02/05/2004 17:27:11 »
I have recently begun to learn Aikido, ai ki do or harmony of "ki" in chinese "chi". And in the lesson at least I could make myself unliftable. It was called a party trick but really this little chinese girl applied her ki istead of being rigid and we tried hard but could not lift her! We also couldn't bend her out stretched arm at the end of the first lesson. Ki is like directed energy and intention rather than rigid force. Aikido uses the opponents ki. I recommend it.

Perhaps the easterners have something there that is not in the deceased.

Titanscape
 

Offline Titanscape

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #10 on: 02/05/2004 17:28:34 »
I have recently begun to learn Aikido, ai ki do or harmony of "ki" in chinese "chi". And in the lesson at least I could make myself unliftable. It was called a party trick but really this little chinese girl applied her ki istead of being rigid and we tried hard but could not lift her! We also couldn't bend her out stretched arm at the end of the first lesson. Ki is like directed energy and intention rather than rigid force. Aikido uses the opponents ki. I recommend it.

Perhaps the easterners have something there that is not in the deceased.


Titanscape
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #11 on: 02/05/2004 18:00:36 »
Bren..that is really fascinating (serioulsy..I'm not being sarcastic here)...thanks for that. I appreciate your input.

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Offline ebzZzZ

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #12 on: 02/05/2004 19:08:17 »

titanscape i'm interested in internal strengthening cause of the
sports i do like, inline skating, snowboarding and windsurfing,
and the crazy stuff you do with your mates a bit like jackass
pushing yourself physically, can you tell us a bit more about
Aikido, i've looked ar qigong and wudang taiji just trying to
decide where to start :)

my apologies neilep i suppose it wasn't very obvious from
the title :)

ebz
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #13 on: 02/05/2004 19:11:32 »
Ebz...no worries at all...thanks for putting up with my cheekiness !!

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Offline ebzZzZ

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #14 on: 02/05/2004 19:11:36 »


Another interesting thing is that
the film "crouching tiger hidden dragon"
is based on the wudang school teachings
from the toaist mountain region in china
me assumes, wudang is a important part
of the more advanced forms of taiji with
internal strengthening.

ebz :)
 

Offline gsmollin

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #15 on: 03/05/2004 05:26:21 »
quote:
Originally posted by ebzZzZ



this goes to show you should read the other posts
on the website and compare them,

i refer you to

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=818

this shows the discrepancy in the laws of thermodynamics.

There are biology papers that show there is a hidden inertia
within cells.

the mass actually increases once the organism knows it's about to
die then the mass decreases to a level lower after death.




That paper claims a mass increase with time in a closed container housing fungus, or worms. It made no mention of a subsequent mass decrease when the worms died. I believe there is a much simpler explanation for this than a mysterious life force, or a hole in thermodynamic laws.
 

Offline ebzZzZ

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #16 on: 03/05/2004 08:31:16 »
"The weight of the test-tube with the worms was found to have increased in the first 3 minutes after the poisoning on average for an average weight of 60 micrograms and it then went down.  Fifteen minutes after poisoning, the weight diminished on average by 93.6 micrograms"

there must be a mistake?? you think my friends who did this
experiment would not have checked, re checked? they did the
experiment to prove that it does happen.

they didn't do the experiment and found this by accident. the
experiment was done to show this occures.

ebz :)
 

Offline gsmollin

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #17 on: 03/05/2004 16:59:52 »
Experiments are done in error all the time. I can't tell you what they did wrong, because I wasn't there. It's not science until it gets repeated by researchers all over the world. If you can show me who else has done this, and what responsible journals have published the results, then I'll take a serious look.
 

Offline ebzZzZ

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #18 on: 03/05/2004 17:06:39 »
the reason no one has repeated the experiment
in great detail is because nobody realises
that there is a problem due to science's blind
following of einsteins early work without properly
understanding his later work
 

Offline Titanscape

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #19 on: 03/05/2004 18:59:26 »
I recommend that you check out your localish university sports clubs such as online and by email or telephone. There is also the unofficial Steven Seagall website. Books too.

My instructor said that ki is sourced from the region just below the belly button where the centre of gravity also is. So when cofused to concentrate there. No strees of cousre one of the Aikido rules is relaxation and another is good posture. After Glen rolled forward I could not push him back! Just remember to respect the master but not to pay homage.


Titanscape
 

Offline OldMan

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #20 on: 04/05/2004 04:38:00 »
Others seem to believe the ki centre is the solar plexus, just below where the ribs join. Generally speaking it is always referred to as being somewhere between those points.

I used to make myself really heavy when my brother tried to pick me up like you described. We also did it once in taekwondo its quite funny to watch someone pick a person up fairly easily and then try it again and not be able to budge the person.

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Offline gsmollin

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #21 on: 04/05/2004 21:05:04 »
When you were "making yourself really heavy", did you weigh yourself to see how much mass you had added? Try it. Making yourself hard to pick up, or be pushed over, involves careful training on controlling the tension in your muscles, the stance of your feet, and leveraging the mass you have, using your limbs. You won't be adding any mass to your body, unless you load up on bananas and milk first.
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #22 on: 04/05/2004 22:29:31 »
ebZzZz, you speak of scientists following blindly, have YOU done this experiment or are you just blindly following, too?  

I'm with gsmollin, if it's not reproducible and published, it's probably not reputable.  Measuring mass is usually done by measuring weight, and a dying organism is probably not going to lie still and take it, making a weight measurement difficult.  Ever get on a scale and flail around?



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Offline OldMan

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #23 on: 05/05/2004 03:47:53 »
gsmollin - yes I see your point. Perhaps I should have used the quotes because when I said I was "making myself really heavy" no I wasn't physically increasing my mass of course, that was just how I thought of it and how it felt.

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Offline tweener

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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #24 on: 05/05/2004 04:51:18 »
Speaking of scientists following blindly.  I've known several top-notch (as in internationally respected in their field) scientists and not one of them could be considered a "follower".  Every one of them was what I'd consider a genius and very much interested in finding new and different ways of looking at the world.  Every one of them would have jumped on an experiment that gave a hint of anomolous results, because they were truly curious as to what would cause such results.

I absolutely reject the notion that scientists in general blindly follow anyone or anything.  Including Einstein.  

So, ebz, have YOU done the experiment?  Has your friend been published somewhere so that his work can be reviewed?


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Re: Is it true that 21 grams of weight is lost when you die?
« Reply #24 on: 05/05/2004 04:51:18 »

 

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