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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Pay-as-you-go rubbish
« on: 22/08/2007 09:51:13 »
From http://lifestyle.aol.co.uk/go-green/pay-as-you-throw-schemes-proposed/article/20070822015609990012

Pre-paid waste sacks and wheelie bins with microchips could be introduced to make householders pay for their rubbish under plans outlined by council leaders.

People could also be charged according to the size of the wheelie bin they choose to use, in Local Government Association proposals to cut waste and encourage more recycling.

But the LGA insisted the "save as you throw" proposals would not be a stealth tax to raise extra cash for councils.

The association outlined three different schemes which councils in England could use to cut the amount of rubbish, residents throw away.

The first would be a system in which householders buy different sized pre-paid rubbish sacks - a scheme which could be used in urban areas where wheelie bins are not always practical.

The second would be the use of microchips in wheelie bins which would allow the amount of rubbish to be weighed as it was loaded on to the refuse truck. Residents would then be billed for the amount of waste they created.

The third option for councils would be a scheme in which householders choose the size of the wheelie bin they use, based on how much rubbish they think they will generate, and are charged accordingly.

The LGA said any scheme a council introduced would be dependent on local circumstances and have to be supported by residents.

But the association warned taxpayers would bear the brunt of fines of up to 3 billion which will be imposed on councils over the next four years if they did not meet European targets for reducing the amount of waste which ends up in landfill.

And it said a survey carried out by Ipsos Mori found 38% of people strongly supported a system in which they paid a reduced council tax rate and were charged directly for the amount of rubbish they produced.


We (& most areas in England) only get the rubbish collected once a fortnight. There are normally 5 of us here - me, Sandra, her 2 kids, & her nan - & we have to do regular runs to the tip as the rubbish bin is full within a week. I'm sure we're not the only people who suffer from this problem.

There is already a problem with people just dumping sacks of rubbish at the sides of roads or putting it in other people's bins (we regularly get rubbish thrown on the bridle-path by our stable yard). The problem is particularly prevalent on council estates where many families live on benefit & don't pay council tax anyway. Back alleyways are often unpassable due to the amount of rubbish thrown in them (I have friends on estates so I know this is fact).

Does the government really expect those sort of people to pay for their rubbish to be collected? As they don't pay council tax, they can't get the rebate. All it means is that the poorest members of society will be asked to pay out more. I don't think there's a snowball in Hell's chance of them doing that.

The only outcome I foresee is more illegal dumping, streets littered with rubbish, and blameless people footing the bill when their bins are filled with rubbish by others.
« Last Edit: 22/08/2007 09:55:54 by DoctorBeaver »


 

paul.fr

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Pay-as-you-go rubbish
« Reply #1 on: 22/08/2007 10:04:53 »
I heard this on the radio this morning, Doc.

The figures they quoted were much higher for those who would welcome a pay as you go scheme. As you have said this will lead to more illegal tipping of waste.

Aslo, do these people really think it will be cheaper? Ok, you may have a couple of pounds knocked off you council tax, but who in their right mind thinks that after a year or two the price of collection won't sky rocket.

Once again we will end up paying over the odds for a service that used to be free, or justa few pounds on the council tax a year.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Pay-as-you-go rubbish
« Reply #2 on: 22/08/2007 10:41:19 »
Paul - we all know that you will get different answers to a question depending on how it is phrased. Weighting questions to get the answer you want is a technique very familiar to those who conduct opinion polls.

Someone stops you in the street and asks "Do you think it would be fair if people were charged according to how much rubbish they generate rather than everyone paying the same?". I think most people would answer "Yes". They're given no time to consider the implications.

But you can guarantee that as soon as they find rubbish in their bin that's been put there by someone else, they'd soon change their mind. We'll have a new breed of NIMBYS - Not In My Bin, You!
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #3 on: 22/08/2007 10:47:54 »
Another point.

I don't know the costs of rubbish disposal per ton so I can only surmise here. If I've got half a bin of rubbish & my neighbour has a full bin, how much more would he be charged? I'm sure it would be more than the extra cost involved with an extra half bin load. So who would get that profit? I can't envisage it all being given back in reduced council tax.
 

Offline neilep

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« Reply #4 on: 22/08/2007 13:02:59 »
As a family of six, I can magically see some of my rubbish ending up in next doors wheely bin !!
 

another_someone

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Pay-as-you-go rubbish
« Reply #5 on: 22/08/2007 13:46:56 »
It is not about price but about cost.  Any system of charging will cost to run (no doubt by private contractors, who expect to pay their employees and their shareholders).  This is not just the billing system, but the cost of implementing the system, and the cost of careful segregation of each householders rubbish (will they really be that careful - how many mistakes will the bin-men make, and how do you seek redress for such a mistake).

At present we use sacks, which are all piled together (and if I have  something unusually large that will not fit into the bag, I just put it next to the bag, and it gets taken away).  When the bin-men come to collect, they go house to house picking up the sacks, and putting them in a few central piles, and the van comes around, only having to stop at the central piles and not on a house to house basis.  Clearly, if they are weighing rubbish, this cannot work, so a new, and less efficient system must come into play.

And all of this is to meet EU targets, not targets that have been locally assessed to meet local conditions.  How do the Finns and the Swedes and the Italians, et. al. know what is the appropriate amount of land fill for the UK to use (much less, what is the appropriate amount for each local council to use)?
 

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Pay-as-you-go rubbish
« Reply #6 on: 22/08/2007 14:16:12 »
Let's invade Brussels
 

Offline Carolyn

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« Reply #7 on: 22/08/2007 14:46:14 »
Just curious, what is the average cost of garbage pick-up/disposal?
 

another_someone

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Pay-as-you-go rubbish
« Reply #8 on: 22/08/2007 15:04:00 »
Just curious, what is the average cost of garbage pick-up/disposal?

Cost to the council, or cost to the end user?

At present it is bundled in with local taxes, so the end user does not see a separated cost.
 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #9 on: 22/08/2007 15:05:00 »
I heard this on the radio this morning, Doc.

The figures they quoted were much higher for those who would welcome a pay as you go scheme. As you have said this will lead to more illegal tipping of waste.

Aslo, do these people really think it will be cheaper? Ok, you may have a couple of pounds knocked off you council tax, but who in their right mind thinks that after a year or two the price of collection won't sky rocket.

Once again we will end up paying over the odds for a service that used to be free, or justa few pounds on the council tax a year.

Wow I coming there! You get your garbage hauled away for free! Well unless they implement this new deal?


Wow it is costly here and we end up filling a trailer and making weekly runs. We are charged around 30 .00 dollars a week depending on how much it weighs! Wow!!!
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Pay-as-you-go rubbish
« Reply #10 on: 23/08/2007 08:56:17 »
I heard this on the radio this morning, Doc.

The figures they quoted were much higher for those who would welcome a pay as you go scheme. As you have said this will lead to more illegal tipping of waste.

Aslo, do these people really think it will be cheaper? Ok, you may have a couple of pounds knocked off you council tax, but who in their right mind thinks that after a year or two the price of collection won't sky rocket.

Once again we will end up paying over the odds for a service that used to be free, or justa few pounds on the council tax a year.

Wow I coming there! You get your garbage hauled away for free! Well unless they implement this new deal?


Wow it is costly here and we end up filling a trailer and making weekly runs. We are charged around 30 .00 dollars a week depending on how much it weighs! Wow!!!

But we all know Americans have a lot more rubbish. Just think of all those McDonalds cartons!  :D
 

Offline Karen W.

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Pay-as-you-go rubbish
« Reply #11 on: 23/08/2007 14:14:14 »
I rarely eat at Mcdonalds!.. LOL and when I do, I eat there and they dispose of the trash! LOL
 

Offline Simulated

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Pay-as-you-go rubbish
« Reply #12 on: 23/08/2007 16:45:57 »
I haven't had McDonalds in 3 years. We all ain't fat you know. LoL.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Pay-as-you-go rubbish
« Reply #13 on: 23/08/2007 20:20:42 »
I haven't had McDonalds in 3 years. We all ain't fat you know. LoL.

Yes you are. And you all wear cowboy hats, drive cars with cow's horns on the bonnet, eat beans round campfires, and wear checked jackets!  :P
 

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Pay-as-you-go rubbish
« Reply #14 on: 23/08/2007 23:15:15 »
HAHA. Not me.
 

Offline kdlynn

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Pay-as-you-go rubbish
« Reply #15 on: 24/08/2007 04:35:43 »
thirty dollars a week!? i used to pay thirty dollars a month for 2 trash cans of any size and that included my water... they don't have trash pick up there karen? and... americans are not all cowboys. or homeless...
 

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« Reply #15 on: 24/08/2007 04:35:43 »

 

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