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General Science / Does a photon move through time?

« on: 10/06/2010 07:38:58 »

photon move in space only, time does not run anywhere at any speed, no photon speed, no bullock car speed, with clocks we measure directly speed and not time, change of speed happens in space only and not in time....

Yes, well you do say that a lot, but why are you asking the question if you are so sure you know the answer?

that is for you.....I already know it

Wow! I am humbled by your vast knowledge. BTW, you're banned.

yes, fine whan you will find time, call me !

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Where is time?

« on: 10/06/2010 07:22:24 »

3. Time becomes non existent for objects approaching the speed of light and light itself.

...

PS how you could explain that: 3. Time becomes non existent for objects approaching the speed of light and light itself.

Time does not become nonexistent for an object approaching 'c'.  What happens is that the rate at which the object travels along the time axis decreases and approaches zero.  It is also incorrect to say that time does not exist for an object traveling at 'c', for if you are in a car driving North, the fact that you are not driving East or West does not mean that East or West no longer exist.

you walk on the street.......tell me how you walk through space and time ?
are you not aware that you walk in space only ?
and with clock you measure speed of your going !

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General Science / Does a photon move through time?

« on: 10/06/2010 07:19:35 »

photon move in space only, time does not run anywhere at any speed, no photon speed, no bullock car speed, with clocks we measure directly speed and not time, change of speed happens in space only and not in time....

Yes, well you do say that a lot, but why are you asking the question if you are so sure you know the answer?

that is for you.....I already know it

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General Science / Does a photon move through time?

« on: 09/06/2010 23:24:58 »

How would you define what an object experiences in SR?  I would define it as what you experience when you are in the frame in which that object is at rest.  In the case of massive objects, as you accelerate to match the object's speed, it appears to slow down until it is eventually stationary in your reference frame.  In the case of light, you can accelerate all you want, but it won't slow down.  You can never be in the frame at which the light is at rest.

What does this mean for defining what a photon "experiences"?  I would say that it means that the question itself is ill-posed.

I was simply going with the math. At C the distance seems to resolve to zero. If that is true, I would have thought the time would also be zero.

That's certainly true if you consider "what happens when I go near the speed of light?" to be the question.  However, just going fast isn't really moving like light, since you can never be riding alongside of a photon even at these speeds.

I realize I'm probably bending things a bit here if the contraction is really an observed effect. If photons don't degrade over distance, does that tend to reinforce the notion that they are sort of immune to time? (I don't know how to express this without using words like "immune", "experience" etc, which are really not applicable.)

photon move in space only, time does not run anywhere at any speed, no photon speed, no bullock car speed, with clocks we measure directly speed and not time, change of speed happens in space only and not in time....

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Where is time?

« on: 09/06/2010 23:20:08 »

tell me one experiment that proves photon moves in time !!!

Go into a darkened room and turn the light on.  Then turn it off.  First it is dark, then it is light, then it is dark again, varying over time.

Although as I mentioned earlier, depending upon how many dimensions you're dealing with, and from how many dimensions you're looking at it, it may be that the darkened room is both simultaneously both dark and light.

you are turning light in space only..........and with clocks you measure numerical order of your turning of and on

Why nobody comment contradiction: at light speed time stops. This mean that time as a part of space stop running or what?

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Where is time?

« on: 09/06/2010 23:17:23 »

tell me one experiment that proves photon moves in time !!!

OK. How about this?

Drive a LED from a pulse generatior. Point the LED at a phototransistor 10 mm from the LED.

Observe the voltage waveform driving the LED and the waveform produced by the phototransistor on an oscilliscope. Measure the delay.

Now move the phototransistor so that it's 110 mm from the LED and measure the delay.

The difference between the two delays is the time a photon takes to travel 100 mm.

It should be around 0.33 nanoseconds.

yes clock did 0,33 nanosecond "tick" in space and photon has moved in  space.....no trace of time

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Where is time?

« on: 09/06/2010 11:16:27 »

PS how you could explain that: 3. Time becomes non existent for objects approaching the speed of light and light itself.
You start moving with speed 3 m per second and you accelerate to the light speed. First you travel in time and at the end time is disappearing. This a deep contradiction you need to resolve.

I don't think SoulSurfer needs to resolve any contradition.

As I understand it, unless you have zero rest-mass, you will never accelerate to the speed of light, and if you do have zero rest-mass, you will not accelerate at all. You will depart and arrive at the same instant in time. As there was, literally, "no time", there was no acceleration.

Terms like speed, motion, velocity, acceleration, distance, all have very specific definitions. If we do not apply those definitions rigorously, we will tie ourselves in knots by debating semantics rather than physics.

Does photon move in space and time ot photon move in space only ? Answer with Yes or NO !. Without semantic.

If we observe photons, they move through both space and time. We can conduct many experiments to confirm this. I hope that's clear enough for you.

tell me one experiment that proves photon moves in time !!!

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Where is time?

« on: 09/06/2010 11:15:25 »

3. Time becomes non existent for objects approaching the speed of light and light itself.

...

PS how you could explain that: 3. Time becomes non existent for objects approaching the speed of light and light itself.

Time does not become nonexistent for an object approaching 'c'.  What happens is that the rate at which the object travels along the time axis decreases and approaches zero.  It is also incorrect to say that time does not exist for an object traveling at 'c', for if you are in a car driving North, the fact that you are not driving East or West does not mean that East or West no longer exist.

OK nice
so tell me: photon moves in time ?

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General Science / Does a photon move through time?

« on: 09/06/2010 11:13:37 »

If at the light speed time disappear how than that photon moves through space-time?
Photon should move through space only!

How do you know it "moved" at all? If it arrived as soon as it departed, it was in two places at the same instant in time, so, in a sense, it didn't move through space and it didn't move through time.

Photons are very strange things.

- not so strange, photon move with a light speed. So my question is clear: does photon move in time or not ?

From our perspective, it seems that photons change their position in time. If we agree that's the same as moving in time, then yes, photons move in time.

EDIT: It might be safer to say that photons simply "move". "Move" already includes the concept of time, so "moving in time" might mean something else. That's why I prefer to say "change position in time".

change position in time
or
moving in time
is the same thing

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General Science / Re: Does a photon move through time?

« on: 09/06/2010 07:32:41 »

If at the light speed time disappear how than that photon moves through space-time?
Photon should move through space only!

How do you know it "moved" at all? If it arrived as soon as it departed, it was in two places at the same instant in time, so, in a sense, it didn't move through space and it didn't move through time.

Photons are very strange things.

- not so strange, photon move with a light speed. So my question is clear: does photon move in time or not ?

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Where is time?

« on: 09/06/2010 07:28:51 »

PS how you could explain that: 3. Time becomes non existent for objects approaching the speed of light and light itself.
You start moving with speed 3 m per second and you accelerate to the light speed. First you travel in time and at the end time is disappearing. This a deep contradiction you need to resolve.

I don't think SoulSurfer needs to resolve any contradition.

As I understand it, unless you have zero rest-mass, you will never accelerate to the speed of light, and if you do have zero rest-mass, you will not accelerate at all. You will depart and arrive at the same instant in time. As there was, literally, "no time", there was no acceleration.

Terms like speed, motion, velocity, acceleration, distance, all have very specific definitions. If we do not apply those definitions rigorously, we will tie ourselves in knots by debating semantics rather than physics.

Does photon move in space and time ot photon move in space only ? Answer with Yes or NO !. Without semantic.

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General Science / Does a photon move through time?

« on: 08/06/2010 22:28:31 »

If at the light speed time disappear how than that photon moves through space-time?
Photon should move through space only!

yours amrit

Edited your title to be a question - Mod

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Where is time?

« on: 08/06/2010 20:46:57 »

Time is part of all three possible answers in this question dependant on your point of view so the survey cannot come to a specific conclusion.

1. Time is part of space as seen in relativity

2. Time is part of the mind in or own experience of time passing.

3. Time becomes non existent for objects approaching the speed of light and light itself.

1,1 In Relativity time is not part of space X4 = ict ( t is tick of clock)
2,1 Yes time is part of the mind. Through time we experience material change i.e. motion.
3,1 At light speed and at any other speed time is nonexistent as physical reality as time exist only as mind structure.

PS how you could explain that: 3. Time becomes non existent for objects approaching the speed of light and light itself.
You start moving with speed 3 m per second and you accelerate to the light speed. First you travel in time and at the end time is disappearing. This a deep contradiction you need to resolve.

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Where has the energy gone when a photon is red-shifted?

« on: 08/06/2010 11:44:49 »

regarding physics one of the most intelligent questions I ever heard.
I do not know.
Maybe back in space !

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Where is time?

« on: 08/06/2010 11:39:11 »

Yours Amrit []

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / What is the time dilation at the gravitational center of a planet or star?

« on: 31/05/2010 18:23:38 »

"time dilatation" means that clock run slower.....there is no time behind run of clocks

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Will a photon clock run at a different rate from an atomic clock under gravity?

« on: 31/05/2010 18:17:51 »

Farsight, Do you have any mathematics to back up your proposed theory?  It's impossible to place it in the context of observations and determine how it differs from the mainstream theory unless you give us something more than pictures and words...

The mathematics isn't any different to what you know, JP. It's a difference in interpretation, in what the mathematics means. And it's backed by the observational evidence in that we do see things moving, but we don't see time flowing. This isn't my theory by the way. This goes back to Aristotle. Also take a look at Presentism.  

Farsight im waiting you comment on hot stone that cool down in cold room.....you ca not just ignoring that.....be more cool

PS what you say:

Graham: re experiment proving the existence of space, simply hold your hands up a metre apart. There's a gap between them. You can see that gap. That's space.

is a pure disaster

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Will a photon clock run at a different rate from an atomic clock under gravity?

« on: 31/05/2010 18:14:25 »

Amrit, I am not denying that the concepts have some merit but just that you are not explaining them well, at least to me. I have read through the paper but have difficulty following your reasoning and I think to do so would involve following up many references.  Statements like "Tell me one single experiment in physics that proves existence of time!" are not convincing because, philosophically, nothing is provable absolutely but only if based on specific premises. You tell me one single experiment in physics that proves the existence of space, for example.

yes we can observe only distances between objects and not space itself, for "space" we understand medium in which objects exists and this medium is timeless

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Will a photon clock run at a different rate from an atomic clock under gravity?

« on: 31/05/2010 13:15:24 »

Amrit, I find your repetition of your concept of time to be unhelpful in giving me (and maybe others) an understanding of your ideas. There is nothing in what you say that seems to relate to the physics. In stating the universe is "Timeless" you may be trying to get people to think in another way, but this still does not relate to the physics. And the experiment showing difference in behaviour between a "photon clock" and other clocks is (IMHO) not going to be successful. However I don't see how this confirms or denies your beliefs in any case. 

Graham there is no single evidence that time exist as a physical reality. Our concept of BLOCK UNIVERSE resolves this puzzle in details: http://vixra.org/abs/1005.0098

Tell me one single experiment in physics that proves existence of time!

FQXI gives 2 million dollars grant for basic research on time.
http://www.fqxi.org/grants/large/initial
If with time all will be clear you think they would give such big money for research?

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Will a photon clock run at a different rate from an atomic clock under gravity?

« on: 31/05/2010 09:12:57 »

To support your position that there is no relative speed difference (and therefore time as we know it does not exist) I think you will have to produce an alternative definition for whatever it is you maintain is the thing we currently know as time.

There must be some misunderstanding here. I've said there is a relative speed difference, challenging amrit's OP assertion. I've also said time exists like heat exists. It's just that it isn't something that really flows, and we don't really travel through it. 

Farsight, this is I was referring to. It could be a bit ambiguous.

"You might have some difficulty accepting this, but there's absolutely no scientific evidence for time is running slower. None whatsoever."

Geezer, time runs in the mind. Time “past-present-future” (psychological time) is a mind construct through which we experience motion into timeless universe.
Through psychological time we experience timelessness of the universe as “present moment”.
Once we are aware of psychological time we experience timelessness of the universe as “eternal present moment” that has its place in space. In the space is always NOW.