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Quote from: larens on 16/05/2020 06:50:49Earlier on there were repeated changes in the format of the forum that tended to hide my posts followed by their revocation, so I am not sure of how much of a consensus there is now. Could you be specific about what happened? I am not aware of any format changes since you registered here, nor any revocation of your posts. Have you posted here before using a different identity?
Earlier on there were repeated changes in the format of the forum that tended to hide my posts followed by their revocation, so I am not sure of how much of a consensus there is now.
I wonder if a general discussion on the likelihood of life originating on a nearby asteroid, and the conditions necessary for that to happen, might be be more productive.
[it's also unfortunate that you are saying that hard radiation will generate HCN and HCHO when, in fact, it will destroy them.
The next step would then require impacts from asteroids in the Solar System to drive material from the rogue planet as it passed through our Solar System. Then those microbe-contaminated samples land in an ocean on Earth and life is jump-started here.Improbable? Certainly.Impossible? Hardly.
Take a look at the high fraction of HCN and HCHO generated by hard UV in the nebulas of molecular clouds. They can also be generated by harder radiation.
I would like to take another look at panspermia.
Quote from: larens on 17/05/2020 23:25:23Take a look at the high fraction of HCN and HCHO generated by hard UV in the nebulas of molecular clouds. They can also be generated by harder radiation.Even a large fraction if a very good vacuum isn't much actual material.You complain that it would be too dilute on Earth yet are happy to source it where there is nothing but "space".
OK, lets have a look.How does anything survive getting "launched"?Throwing a rock through the atmosphere at escape velocity subjects it to conditions that look worse than reentry.How come it doesn't get fried?
You can have liquid water or you can have ferroelectric ammonium sulphate.You can't have both. The ferroelectric transition is somewhere near -50C.And I'm not convinced you can have liquid water until you have something big enough to have an atmosphere to stop it boiling off into space.And once you have liquid water, and a dense atmosphere, you might as well be on Earth.
Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/05/2020 21:00:01You can have liquid water or you can have ferroelectric ammonium sulphate.You can't have both. The ferroelectric transition is somewhere near -50C.And I'm not convinced you can have liquid water until you have something big enough to have an atmosphere to stop it boiling off into space.And once you have liquid water, and a dense atmosphere, you might as well be on Earth.In a 3:2 resonance orbit with the early Earth the average black body temperature was a bit above the ferroelectric transition temperature. With day/nighttime variation the transition point would have been crossed every day. The average noon time temperature would have been about 20 C, so the ice/water transition point would have also been crossed. The spring was radioactively heated, so there was a zone near the spring in which the temperature variation centered around 0 C thus making desalination by freezing, the concentration of boron, and water/formamide separation occur every day. Conditions were thus appropriate for the ribose reaction and the winding and unwinding of RNA and DNA.The UV polymerization of alkanes provided a seal at the surface above the spring. When this was punctured by micrometeorites another layer formed as fluid permeated the dust that had accumulated above it. The new layer was temporarily self sealed by nonvolatile soluble materials. When vapor pressure lifted the layers, fluid spread to the edges and added to the layered area. Water vapor pressure was low because temperatures were near freezing. The hydrological system was thus self regulating.
What's the atmospheric pressure here?
Do you know that ammonium sulphate is very soluble in water?
How come the seals survive the volume and pressure changes?At 20C the vapour pressure of water is about 1/40 atmospheres or about a quarter of a tonne per square meter.How come the seals survive the volume and pressure changes?At 20C the vapour pressure of water is about 1/40 atmospheres or about a quarter of a tonne per square meter.
Is this the genetic study you were speaking about earlier? https://phys.org/news/2013-04-law-life-began-earth.html
Most of the water is just a few degrees above freezing. It would probably only reach 20 C fairly deep in the spring.
Who put the gas under the plastic?
Quote from: larens on 19/05/2020 00:47:54 Most of the water is just a few degrees above freezing. It would probably only reach 20 C fairly deep in the spring.If all the water boils of "only deep in the spring" then it still all boils off.At 0C the vapour pressure is still over a hundredweight to the square metre.And if it has significant volatile organics in it, the pressure may be higher.
If you put on your scuba gear and dive down to where it is 20 C, you will be able to see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convection