[aspagnito (OP)]

this is a translation from Polish article:
https://www.medonet.pl/koronawirus/koronawirus-w-polsce,koronawirus-w-polsce--amantadyna-w-terapii-covid-19--badania--decyzje-mz,artykul,02812179.html

Amantadine a cure for COVID-19? Already in April, Poles were the first in the world to describe its possible effectiveness in the treatment of coronavirus. There are reports that Cambridge scholars have become interested in the research of our scientists. The Health Ministry announced the launch of the clinical trials on December 15, more than seven months after the publication of the Polish researchers' observations.
Amantadine is used among others in the treatment of neurological disorders: Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, acute brain injury (a full treatment costs about $10). Research on the action of amantadine has been conducted for a long time by two Polish scientists. Based on their observations, they suggested that amantadine probably protected COVID-19 patients from a severe course of infection. Amantadine was not included in the recent third recommendations of the Polish Society of Epidemiologists and Physicians of Infectious Diseases for the treatment of COVID-19. On December 15, the Minister of Health announced that the Medical Research Agency has initiated a clinical trial for the use of amantadine in the treatment of COVID-19.
What is the medicine called amantadine? Amantadine is a drug used among other things in the treatment of neurological disorders. It is officially used to treat Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, acute brain injury. The preparation also exhibits antiviral activity (inhibits the replication of viruses by affecting their genetic material) and may inhibit the infection of respiratory cells. This has led to its use in the treatment and prevention of influenza A in adults. In Poland, drugs with amantadine are available in the form of tablets or oral capsules and solution for injections. You can only buy them in pharmacies with a prescription.
Amantadine in the treatment of COVID-19. Observations of Polish scientists:
The drug became famous in November, when Włodzimierz Bodnar, a paediatrician and lung disease specialist from Przemyśl, published his opinion on how to beat the virus online. The doctor argued that by using amantadine, COVID-19 could be cured in 48 hours. " I claim that with this method of treatment, at least 99 percent of severe cases in Poland currently in hospital treatment can be stabilized within 48 hours, followed by a period of several days of recovery," he wrote. As reported by PAP, the doctor asserted that he has documented more than 100 cases of recovery from COVID-19 disease using the drug.
Meanwhile, research on the effects of amantadine has been conducted for a long time by prof. Konrad Rejdak, head of the Department of Neurology of the Independent Public Clinical Hospital No. 4 in Lublin and prof. dr. hab. n. med. Paweł Grieb, head of the Department of Experimental Pharmacology of the L. Reich Institute of Experimental and Clinical Medicine. M. Mossakowski PAN. Researchers tested how amantadine works to treat COVID-19 in patients with Parkinson's disease and multiple sclerosis. In late April, the researchers described the results of the observations. It turned out that, thanks to amantadine, some people were "passing the infection quite mildly". The authors suggested that the drug probably protected these patients from a severe course of coronavirus infection. But, as prof. Rejdak, more extensive research is needed to make a full assessment.
Similar observations have been reported by scientists in other countries, including the United States, Mexico, Spain. Media emphasize that the publication of Polish professors was the first of its kind in the world. It was recently addressed by experts from the University of Cambridge. After reviewing the medical records of 13,000 seniors with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease came to similar conclusions.
"There is no basis for the use of amantadine in SARS-CoV-2 infections"
Amantadine was not included in the recent third recommendations of the Polish Society of Epidemiologists and Infectious Disease Physicians for the treatment of COVID-19 (published October 13, 2020). - We didn't do it because we didn't think it would be necessary. There is no factual or scientific basis for the use of amantadine in infections caused by the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus - explained the president of the society, prof. Robert Flisiak. The topic returned when Marcin Warchoł MP also posted an entry about the preparation: "Amantadine works on COVID! I'm an example. First my son, then my wife, and finally me: high fever, extreme pain, severe cough, according to the doctor, so 7 days, and then the climax, so I took amantadine - an amazing effect! It worked!" - wrote the politician. - I will demand @MZ_GOV_PL to take care of this drug," he stated.
The Health Ministry responded to MP Warchoł's Sunday post on Monday. As Wojciech Andrusiewicz, a spokesman for the Ministry of Health, pointed out, amantadine was subject to an opinion of the Agency for Health Technology Assessment and Tarification. There is one opinion, and a very significant one: there are no large-scale clinical trials to date which would confirm, on the one hand, the efficacy of amantadine in the treatment of COVID-19, and, on the other hand, the safety of such therapy. So we as the Ministry of Health cannot recommend therapies that are not tested," he stressed. - Remember, for treatment of a specific disease, there must be a clinical trial with efficacy, quality and safety assessments. At present, there are no such clinical trials on a large scale, hence there is no recommendation from our side, but I would also like to point out that there is no recommendation from the Polish Society of Epidemiologists and Doctors of Infectious Diseases - explained the spokesman for the Ministry of Health.
Minister of Health: a study has been launched on use of amantadine in COVID-19 treatment The issue of amantadine in the treatment of SARS-CoV-2 was addressed by the Minister of Health, Adam Niedzielski. On Dec. 15, he reported that the Agency for Medical Research had initiated a clinical trial for the use of amantadine to treat COVID-19. The signals that were coming to us about the use of amantadine for other purposes prompted us to look into the question of whether it could deal effectively with coronavirus in any way. That's why more than a month ago I ordered the Agency for Health Technology Assessment and Tarification to review the world literature so that, based on evidence and objective scientific studies, it could make recommendations as to whether this agent can also be used in the COVID-19 therapeutic process - said the head of the Ministry of Health.
Unfortunately," Niedzielski stressed, "there is no such literature. There are only three items of scientific studies, which present very incomplete evidence, the population was never comprehensively covered by the study and therefore the Agency for Health Technology Assessment and Tarification issued a recommendation of non-use, the lack of scientific evidence of amantadine efficacy - emphasized Adam Niedzielski. Regardless of that recommendation, he said, he asked the Agency for Medical Research to conduct a clinical trial. In the near future, the facility will commission such tests at two centers. - In fact, this process has already begun," the minister said.

[Bored chemist]

Well, it's an antiviral drug.
It has to be worth a try...

My only worry is "why hasn't it been tried before?"

[aspagnito (OP)]

My only worry is "why hasn't it been tried before?"

It's cheap and effective. That's why. If we do not know what's going on - we know what's going on - MONEY. Picture Pfizer after they prove its effectiveness - that is why I am worried, that the tests might be falsified. The problem with vaccine in Europe is simple - China pays more, so there are deficits with vaccine in Europe. But even if Europe vaxes its whole population, that would take some 1,5-2 years, the immunity is no longer valid (it's 4 months from the moment of vaccination). So it's pointless, but very expensive. Vaccines from this perspective won't work (given the economical aspect).
Only cure for COVID and not a vaccine can eliminate it. So picture this - it's safe, simple and easy. So who will make money on it? Not Pfizer who invested a lot to make something very expensive.

Besides it's been tried. By a Polish pulmonologist, Dr. Adam Bodnar - he was the first one to invent that - the article does not say that, but he cured 250 people. He was responsible, so he wrote to Polish Ministry of Health demanding scientiffical tests. They did not answer him for 7 months (!) and said there is no reason to say it's true - just because they had no proof for it (tough logic). Only intervention of a Polish polititian made the Ministry of Health start some studies. Yet, as history shows - these tests might be falsified. Just like few cases of cure for cancer, where those cure put the pharmacological corporations in danger.

[Bored chemist]

Across most of the Western world, the governments pay for healthcare.
And the healthcare ministries of those governments are all short of money.
So they would all dearly love to get a cheap treatment for covid (and lots of other things).
And it's the government agencies that make the decisions; not Pfizer and the like.
The "It wouldn't make money " argument is nonsense.
The pharmaceutical industry can make money by selling aspirin- and it does.

Why make things difficult. The covid vaccine is only a few pounds per patient.
They could charge half as much for amantadine.
And they could charge it again when the patient got sick again. And then again, a third time.
And you could do all of that without needing to do the hugely expensive research.

A vaccine is a bad way to make money. You only sell it once.
Prophylactic antivirals would be much more profitable.

[aspagnito (OP)]

Prophylactic antivirals would be much more profitable.

And a lot more effective - since they amantadine is not used in prophylactics here, but as a cure when someone is ill - that's what the article says. So a person gets ill - the person goes home or to the hospital. The person gets better sooner - the effect? Less people ill and less deaths.

[Kryptid]

Picture Pfizer after they prove its effectiveness - that is why I am worried, that the tests might be falsified.

It would be nice if people didn't jump to conspiracies as the first explanation for something.

But even if Europe vaxes its whole population, that would take some 1,5-2 years, the immunity is no longer valid (it's 4 months from the moment of vaccination). So it's pointless, but very expensive.

It's not pointless at all. Booster shots exist for a reason (at this point, I don't think we know for sure how long the vaccines provide protection anyway. It could be much longer than 4 months). Initial vaccinations plus booster shots provide an effective means of controlling infection.

[aspagnito (OP)]

Picture Pfizer after they prove its effectiveness - that is why I am worried, that the tests might be falsified.

It would be nice if people didn't jump to conspiracies as the first explanation for something.

But even if Europe vaxes its whole population, that would take some 1,5-2 years, the immunity is no longer valid (it's 4 months from the moment of vaccination). So it's pointless, but very expensive.

It's not pointless at all. Booster shots exist for a reason (at this point, I don't think we know for sure how long the vaccines provide protection anyway. It could be much longer than 4 months). Initial vaccinations plus booster shots provide an effective means of controlling infection.

Perhaps I'm being carried away. I am not a medical doctor, but a computer science engineer who is now out of the profession, but I am trying to start a career as a writer. Maybe I'm actually gluing the facts together too much and it comes out as one big conspiracy theory with enemies and allies.
In a way, you praise the vaccine so much. As if it shouldn't be supplemented with any other therapy. But did you know that in Spain, for example, as in practically every other country, medical services and seniors were vaccinated first, and of those vaccinated seniors, seven hundred are already sick with coronavirus? It's a bit like the vaccine doesn't work at all, don't you think?

[Bored chemist]

But did you know that in Spain, for example, as in virtually every other country, medical services and seniors were vaccinated first, and of those vaccinated seniors, seven hundred are already sick with coronavirus? It's a bit like the vaccine doesn't work at all.

By some weird accident, the UK was the first western country to start vaccinating. (And we also started with medics and the elderly)
So how would the Spanish be the first to get this odd observation?
It seems impossible, could you tell us where you found out about it?

[aspagnito (OP)]

I did not say Spain vaccinated first.
Here is one of the sources:
https://www.gazetaprawna.pl/wiadomosci/swiat/artykuly/8067692,hiszpania-zakazenia-wsrod-zaszczepionych-covid-19.html
It's in Polish.

Here is the article:

Infections are increasing among those vaccinated against Covid-19

Several hundred people vaccinated against Covid-19 in Spain have been infected with the coronavirus, according to estimates by the Madrid-based Europa Press agency, citing statistics from regional health services. Meanwhile, there is a growing body of experts calling on the government to declare a lockdown. Europa Press reported that most new outbreaks of coronavirus infection have occurred since the weekend in nursing homes.
According to the agency, more than 100 people who were vaccinated with the Pfizer/BioNTech product have become ill with Covid-19 in senior care facilities since early January. This includes residents of these facilities as well as staff members. Until Wednesday, the highest number of cases of the virus in nursing homes had been recorded in the autonomous communities of Castile and Leon, Navarre and Catalonia. Tuesday's declarations by Health Minister Salvador Illa show that so far, medical services have already used more than 60 percent of the doses of vaccines provided by Pfizer and BioNTech. The government representative added that despite the arrival of the third wave of the epidemic, the cabinet of Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez does not intend to declare a lockdown.
The opinion of the Minister of Health has been criticized by many medical experts, including. prof. Alberto Infante of the Madrid-based Instituto de Salud for Health. Charles III. In an interview with Cadena Ser radio on Wednesday, he called on the government to immediately declare a lockdown.
"If we don't lock people out of their homes now, we will pay for our failure to do so in a few days with serious public health consequences. Restrictions do not have to be long term. The announcement of a two-three week lockdown is enough," the epidemiologist said. Infante pointed out that confirmation of his concerns is over 25,400 new SARS-CoV-2 infections recorded between Monday and Tuesday in Spain. He pointed out that this is one of the highest daily infection rates in the country.

[Bored chemist]

I did not say Spain vaccinated first.

I didn't say you had.
But the point remains.
The UK is vaccinating people, and has been doing so for longer than Spain has.
Yet there is no report of infections in the UK in vaccinated people.
Why is there a difference?
I can't find any English language version of the story. (which is interesting)
Also there's no useful details.

We know that vaccination isn't perfect, and that immunity isn't immediate, so you would expect people who have been vaccinated to get infected.
So is the story just stating the obvious, but trying to make it look like there's something unexpected?

[aspagnito (OP)]

I don't understand these discrepancies. The case is very big in Poland and the Polish Internet, especially whatsapp is buzzing about it. Perhaps the problem is (after thinking about it, I may have a more objective opinion) that after vaccination one don't gain immunity right away, and during that immunity-acquiring period one can get sick. But that's just a hypothesis.
"Gazeta Prawna" is a reliable source - one of the most reliable sources in Poland.
Besides. . . A vaccine may reduce the number of sick people, but it won't eliminate the disease - because all it takes is for one sick person to keep the virus and there will be a repeat. Lots of people get infected every day and some of them die. So shouldn't such people be helped? After all, there was a vaccine - one should get vaccinated! (and this is not funny). I emphasize, amantadine is a good adjunct to vaccine therapy and similar drugs have been sought for months. Such drugs are quinine or clopixol, but it turns out that amantadine is the best of them. We know this, although research on this fact is just beginning. Not without obvious problems, but I'd rather write something more into being positive.

[Bored chemist]

Besides. . . A vaccine may reduce the number of sick people, but it won't eliminate the disease - because all it takes is for one sick person to keep the virus and there will be a repeat.

If a large enough fraction of the population is immune (roughly, the fraction is 1/R) then the disease will die out.
There may still be one person with the virus but, on average he will  spread it to less than 1 person... and so on.

I'm still puzzled by the lack of research on amantadine.

[aspagnito (OP)]

This is a quote from this article:

"Similar observations have been reported by scientists in other countries, including the United States, Mexico, Spain. Media emphasize that the publication of Polish professors was the first of its kind in the world. It was recently addressed by experts from the University of Cambridge. After reviewing the medical records of 13,000 seniors with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease came to similar conclusions."

The problem is that one Polish pulmonologist had an intuition. Amantadine was a drug that was recommended for flu, so the guy (who is a Doctor in medical sciences and not some nerd that tries to build flying cars or luminescent dogs in his basement) has tried amantadine on his patients. After 48 hours patients had gone a lot better and in a matter of few days they got perfectly healthy.
But the guy is a responsible doctor - he started his agenda by writing to Polish Ministry of Health demanding research. They did not answer him for 7 months - in this period of time he wrote a paper on amantadine and as I quoted before, USA, Mexico and Spain and the University of Cambridge confirmed his "thing" (please forgive me my English). The "thing" about amantadine was still silent in Poland, where it started. After seven months a polititian made some noise about it, because he, his wife and his children got healthy after having strong symptoms of COVID-19. He wrote things in the Internet and rushed the thing. Yet Polish Ministry of Health said they did not confirmed it because of lack of evidence - when they were asked for such tough evidence and by conducting strong research. After the thing got loud, they had no choice and started some research. I think that there has to be some positive answer, and even if the answer is at least a bit positive - other countries will conduct their researches and that will move the thing forward. It is obvious for me, that big things start small.

If a large enough fraction of the population is immune (roughly, the fraction is 1/R) then the disease will die out.
There may still be one person with the virus but, on average he will  spread it to less than 1 person... and so on.

I just gave an example. In some countires vaccination is not obligatory (like in Poland), so a lot more ill people will keep the virus. Just like we can't be sure that after vaccinating the whole country (which takes a lot of time) people vaccinated won't get ill again. The virus will probably keep itself in third world countries - and that is a real danger.

[puppypower]

Amantadine has the chemical structure as shown below:

It is cool looking carbon-hydrogen 3-D ring structure with a single NH2- group. It appears composed of four cyclohexane molecules, attached via a number of shared carbon atoms. The ring structure is very organic and would easily attach to membrane material.

The single -NH2 group is polar, and has the capacity to form hydrogen bonds or share electrons. Its job may be to attached and anchor to membrane proteins with hollow aqueous cores, allowing the ring end to interact with membrane lipids.



Before healthy cell cycles begin, the outer membrane needs to become more unsaturated and more fluid so it can be easily separated between the two daughter cells. Unsaturation of the membrane lipids; remove hydrogen, adds double bonds, which makes the membrane materials more spread out in space; cis and trans, making it harder to pack, thereby lowering the membrane viscosity. Amantadine added to a cell membrane, will add saturated carbon, thereby inhibiting the viscosity lowering needed to easily replicate.

Neurons do not replicate. So Amantadine added to the brain and neuron membranes will increase the viscosity. This may help  inhibit some firing for Parkinson and Alzheimer Treatments.

In terms of Corona virus, all virus will first attach to a cell membrane, enter, disassemble, and then make use of the genetic material to duplicate. Then they need to reassemble and then exist the cell. Say we added, Amantadine, to the entering virus membrane and to the host membrane. This will increase viscosity. This will also add more electron density due to the four saturated rings. This will then then add more surface tension in the local shared membrane water. The net result is higher induced water hydrogen bonding. This may interfere with the viral-cell hydrogen bonding needed to bind the virus to the cell, so it can enter.

I never heard of this drug before, however, but the chemical structure seems straight forward in terms of form and function. I inferred from my experience with form and function.

[aspagnito (OP)]

Good to know. Thanks.

[Bored chemist]

I inferred from my experience with form and function.

It would probably have been better to look on WIKI and find out what the science says.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amantadine#Influenza

You are also wrong about what it does in parkinsonism.

[Bored chemist]

It appears composed of four cyclohexane molecules, attached via a number of shared carbon atoms.

Well, these three cyclohexane rings account for all the carbons


adamant.png (60.07 kB . 1139x915 - viewed 3390 times)

Where's the 4th?

[Kryptid]

In a way, you praise the vaccine so much. As if it shouldn't be supplemented with any other therapy.

I never said that.

But did you know that in Spain, for example, as in practically every other country, medical services and seniors were vaccinated first, and of those vaccinated seniors, seven hundred are already sick with coronavirus? It's a bit like the vaccine doesn't work at all, don't you think?

You don't get full immunity on the same day that you receive a vaccination. In the case of the Pfizer vaccine, it takes a full 12 days after the first dose before you reach an efficacy of about 52%. Then you have to wait at least 21 days after the first dose before receiving the second dose, and then wait another 7 days after that to reach the peak 95% efficacy. So that's plenty of time to get unlucky and contract COVID. And even 95% isn't 100%. So even after reaching maximum efficacy, you'd still expect some small proportion of people to get sick out of millions.