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Life Sciences => Cells, Microbes & Viruses => Topic started by: Kevan Gelling on 18/03/2009 01:30:03

Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 18/03/2009 01:30:03
Kevan Gelling asked the Naked Scientists:
   
Chris,

HPV causes cervical cancer; childhood diabetes has been linked to a virus; research this week has identified mutated DNA in pancreatic cancer; genome research has shown that viruses alter our DNA.

Vitamin D is linked to many illnesses (including the ones above), although it is not known how.  What if Vitamin D's main function is to kill viruses?  What if all illnesses linked to Vitamin D are caused by viruses?

In other words, low Vitamin D leads to more viral infections which can cause DNA mutations which in turn can cause cancers, diabetes and other illnesses.
 
List all illnesses linked to Vitamin D and we get a list of illnesses caused by viruses and we can then look for the virus(es) at fault and hopefully make vaccines to prevent it.

Is this possible?

Thanks
Kevan Gelling

What do you think?
Title: Re: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/03/2009 20:28:04
"Vitamin D is linked many illnesses (including the ones above), "
By whom?
Anyway, since most of us have plenty of vitamin D but still get viral infections from time to time, the answer to the title question is "No".
Title: Re: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 24/03/2009 14:22:25
Here are the new stories:

Here are some Vitamin D research links:

And there's plenty more - look on PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed) or Vitamin D Council (http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/research.shtml). I'm not able to assess whether the quality of the research, but there's lot of it.

Regards,
Kevan
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 24/03/2009 19:51:33
Since most of us have plenty of vitamin D but still get viral infections from time to time, the answer to the title question is still "No".
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Variola on 24/03/2009 22:28:28
Quote
Vitamin D is linked to many illnesses (including the ones above), although it is not known how.  What if Vitamin D's main function is to kill viruses?  What if all illnesses linked to Vitamin D are caused by viruses?

In other words, low Vitamin D leads to more viral infections which can cause DNA mutations which in turn can cause cancers, diabetes and other illnesses.

Thats actually quite an interesting question, its made me ponder.

 There is no evidence ( that I have found throught trawling ) that vit D kills viruses, I wish that it did!

The problem is that not all viruses will causes DNA mutations. those that might cause it, might cause it in some people but not others, or may cause different mutations, or the right collection of mutations may not be present in some people but are in others depending on previous infections etc etc the list of permutations goes on.  Cancer itself usually has at least 6 mutations present on a cellular level. Like a lot of microbiology its lots of if's and but's and might be's.

I'm still reading the links you have posted ( they have lead me onto other articles!) but I will continue mooching roud pubmed, web of science etc see if I can dig anything else up.


Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: wolfekeeper on 24/03/2009 23:31:16
I don't think vitamin D kills viruses. It probably has a modulating effect on the immune system though; if you are deficient in vitamin D then many human systems won't work as well, and the immune system is doubtless one of them.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 25/03/2009 20:35:25
"Hi B.C.
Citation/source/reference...please."

I didn't see anyone with rickets today, did you?.
Also, with the huge variation in human diets there would be some people who positively rattle with vitamin D. If they were immune to viral infections someone would have noticed.

Incidentally while all this stuff about vitamin D being some "cure all" is entirely speculative, the real evidence of what lots of vitamin D does results in the stuff being used as a rat poison.

It would be a shame if some misguided person saw this thread and poisoned themself with vitamin D because they thought it might cure the common cold.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: wolfekeeper on 25/03/2009 20:44:40
It's for all practical purposes impossible to do this accidentally, I'm pretty sure that there's never been a vitamin D poisoning case that doesn't involve an industrial accident or taking wayyyyy too many prescription strength pills over a loooong period. (There was a batch of vitamin pills that were made 100x too strong, a few people got ill).

Most people could take about 100 vitamin pills a day for several months before reaching toxicity levels.

If you go out in the sun for about 10 minutes your skin produces maybe 20,000 IU; the average pill has about 200-400 IU in it, dietary sources are much lower. Skin self limits, but pills don't. But I think the studies seem to say you can take up to about ~20,000 IU without any known long term harm at all. I think about 100,000 IU/day would put you in hospital... eventually.

Only a few food sources (mainly oily fish) give only a few hundred IU per portion, and most foods give none at all. There's only about a dozen common foods that have any significant vitamin D in at all. Eggs, 20 IU, you would have to eat 5 eggs a day to get up to your daily requirement.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 25/03/2009 21:31:02
If you go out in the sun for about 10 minutes your skin produces maybe 20,000 IU; the average pill has about 200-400 IU in it, dietary sources are much lower. Skin self limits, but pills don't. But I think the studies seem to say you can take up to about ~20,000 IU without any known long term harm at all. I think about 100,000 IU/day would put you in hospital... eventually.

Only a few food sources (mainly oily fish) give only a few hundred IU per portion, and most foods give none at all. There's only about a dozen common foods that have any significant vitamin D in at all. Eggs, 20 IU, you would have to eat 5 eggs a day to get up to your daily requirement.

Hi wolfekeeper,

I agree with you.
Vitamin D is not a 'real' vitamin, a cofactor that you get from your diet.
It is a steroid hormone, produced by our skin through sunlight exposure.
Difficult to measure (nanograms per mL in the circulating blood), it's coming late as a wonderful agent, able to control the function of over 200 genes.
Recent research results are quite promising, and its anti-infective properties (through antibiotic peptides production) have been defined only 4-5 years ago.
The old cod liver oil given to TB patients in the last century is finally scientifically proven as a treatment support!
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 25/03/2009 21:41:54
Can I cite Wolfekeeper's post as evidence that most of us get enough vitamin D?
"If you go out in the sun for about 10 minutes your skin produces maybe 20,000 IU; the average pill has about 200-400 IU in it, dietary sources are much lower. "
So it's easy to get, at least in the Summer, yet people get viral diseases during Summer (perhaps fewer than Winter but that's
1 due to confounding variables and
2 not the point; if vit D killed viruses then practically nobody should get a viral disease in Summer.)
Vitamin D doesn't kill viruses no matter how nice it would be if it did.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 25/03/2009 21:49:05
"Hi B.C.
Citation/source/reference...please."

I didn't see anyone with rickets today, did you?.
Also, with the huge variation in human diets there would be some people who positively rattle with vitamin D. If they were immune to viral infections someone would have noticed.

Rickets is still around: I've seen children, I read reported cases:

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/extract/360/4/398
http://www.uvadvantage.org/portals/0/pres/


BTW, where is your citation about "...most of us have plenty of vitamin D"?

iko
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: wolfekeeper on 25/03/2009 22:12:21
Can I cite Wolfekeeper's post as evidence that most of us get enough vitamin D?
"If you go out in the sun for about 10 minutes your skin produces maybe 20,000 IU; the average pill has about 200-400 IU in it, dietary sources are much lower. "
So it's easy to get, at least in the Summer
Actually, a lot of people seem to be deficient if anything. Note that's only about enough for 100 days of the RDA (and there is a case that the RDA is too low BTW.)

There's also issues in that the exposure has to be over most of your skin with the sun high in the sky to make anything like that much, and a lot of Europe is quite a long way North.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 26/03/2009 20:34:39
Only 10 minutes sun in 100 days is a bad Summer, even by British standards.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: wolfekeeper on 26/03/2009 21:02:28
Yeah, but it saturates, so if you haven't seen the sun in a hundred days, you're risking deficiency, so over winter is particularly bad. And note that it's the UV-B that's important, which is mostly a midsummer thing.

Right about now it would be likely to be particularly low, or a month ago maybe.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 26/03/2009 21:12:27
OK, but people do still get viral infections in the height of Summer.
I only need to find one sun lover with a viral infection to show that vitamin D doesn't (reliably) kill viruses.
How about my Aunt? She lives in South Africa, hates the cold, loves the sun and got shingles.
Now that's a virus she picked up as a child (ie chickenpox). So for decades she had plenty of sunshine (much of it before there was an association with cancer) and so she would have had about as much vitamin D as anyone gets and, in spite of this, the virus lived for those decades.

At least one virus is not killed by vitamin D.

Incidentally, my guess is that more viruses are "killed" by sunlight than by any other cause, so there's an interesting problem with that confounding variable in this discussion.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: wolfekeeper on 26/03/2009 21:25:39
Actually, if anything, as I understand it, vitamin D tends to suppress the immune system.

But, yes, sunlight itself is a good antibacterial, antiviral and antifungal.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 31/03/2009 14:42:34
Since most of us have plenty of vitamin D but still get viral infections from time to time,
the answer to the title question is still "No".

Your reasoning is poor.  Using this logic I could state - Since most of us have plenty of white blood cells but still get viral infections from time to time, the answer to "Could white blood cells kill viruses?" is still "No".

Is there scientific evidence (rather than conjecture) that links high levels of Vitamin D with low levels of viral infections? "Yes" - Epidemic influenza and vitamin D (http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=469543)

A couple of other points:
* The sun is not strong enough in the UK (above 50N latitude) for the skin to make enough Vitamin D for most of the winter (Daniel E. Roth DE, et al. Vitamin D insufficiency is common in Canadian children and adolescents: national guidelines provide insufficient vitamin D to maintain adequate blood levels. Can J Public Health 2005)
* Vitamin D deficiency be found in the sunniest places - Vitamin D deficiency in Sydney skin cancer patients (http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/190_02_190109/letters_190109_fm-7.html)
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 31/03/2009 21:03:52
My logic is fine; you just haven't understood what "plenty of" means.
Unlike vitamin D, the body makes lots more active white blood cells during infections It can't make lots of vitamin D.

A couple of repeated points
"The sun is not strong enough in the UK (above 50N latitude) for the skin to make enough Vitamin D for most of the winter " And people get viral infections in Summer.


"Vitamin D deficiency be found in the sunniest places - Vitamin D deficiency in Sydney skin cancer patients"
Since most of us have plenty of vitamin D but still get viral infections from time to time...


Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 02/04/2009 13:46:19
My logic is fine

Your logic:

Hmm

Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 02/04/2009 20:21:41
Please chack the meaning of the word "infer".
Also, I think that white blood cells don't technically kill viruses. They kill viruses that have been tagged by antibodies.
In the absense of those antibodies then that logic is true (provided that you swap the word "implies" for "infers")
On their own neither white blood cells nor vitamin D kills viruses. With help the cells can do it.
What provides the putative help for the vitamin?

Anyway, why didn't the vitamin D kill my aunt's chickenpox virus?
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Variola on 02/04/2009 22:06:02
Quote
Anyway, why didn't the vitamin D kill my aunt's chickenpox virus?

Indeed. Why in the more prosperous parts of Africa is HIV still endemic? i.e in a part of the world with good nutrition and plenty of sunlight?

Vit D does not kill viruses by itself, and there is nothing so far, after trawling to support any hypothesis that it would.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 03/04/2009 15:08:18
Anyway, why didn't the vitamin D kill my aunt's chickenpox virus?

In biology, we should always talk about percentage of risk, incidence, statistical data.
No total immunity.  No 100% protection.



What provides the putative help for the vitamin?



...Earlier, I wrote that autism was linked to vitamin D deficiency in pregnant mothers, and that women's cancers were dramatically reduced by regular sunlight exposure. Now, research indicates that the risk of placental infection is impressively lowered by increasing vitamin D levels.[1]

This research did not surprise me. Immunity is enhanced by high vitamin D levels through the increased production of an antimicrobial peptide called cathelicidin, which keeps both bacterial and viral infections at bay. This is the exact reason that flu occurs almost exclusively in winter months in both hemispheres; blood levels of vitamin D are much lower in winter months (see my earlier posts)

In this research, placental cells were exposed to E. coli bacteria and then treated with vitamin D. The treatment reduced the risk of infection by about 50%.

Remember that there is also a dramatic reduction in the risk of breast and ovarian cancer among women with high sunlight exposure and high vitamin D levels; now we can add one more advantage of vitamin D to the list of benefits for female reproductive tissue.
...

from: Vit.D & solar power...    http://drsorenson.blogspot.com/2009/01/vitamin-d-reduces-risk-of-placental.html



Antimicrobial peptides and the skin immune defense system.


Schauber J, Gallo RL.
Department of Dermatology and Allergology, Ludwig-Maximilians-University, Munich, Germany.

Our skin is constantly challenged by microbes but is rarely infected. Cutaneous production of antimicrobial peptides (AMPs) is a primary system for protection, and expression of some AMPs further increases in response to microbial invasion. Cathelicidins are unique AMPs that protect the skin through 2 distinct pathways: (1) direct antimicrobial activity and (2) initiation of a host response resulting in cytokine release, inflammation, angiogenesis, and reepithelialization. Cathelicidin dysfunction emerges as a central factor in the pathogenesis of several cutaneous diseases, including atopic dermatitis, in which cathelicidin is suppressed; rosacea, in which cathelicidin peptides are abnormally processed to forms that induce inflammation; and psoriasis, in which cathelicidin peptide converts self-DNA to a potent stimulus in an autoinflammatory cascade. Recent work identified vitamin D3 as a major factor involved in the regulation of cathelicidin. Therapies targeting control of cathelicidin and other AMPs might provide new approaches in the management of infectious and inflammatory skin diseases.

J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2008 Aug;122(2):261-6.


Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Variola on 03/04/2009 15:28:56
Quote
Remember that there is also a dramatic reduction in the risk of breast and ovarian cancer among women with high sunlight exposure and high vitamin D levels; now we can add one more advantage of vitamin D to the list of benefits for female reproductive tissue.

And a greater risk of skin cancer..
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 03/04/2009 15:34:36

And a greater risk of skin cancer..


The challenge resulting from positive and negative effects of sunlight:
how much solar UV exposure is appropriate to balance between risks of vitamin D deficiency and skin cancer?


Reichrath J.
Klinik für Dermatologie, Venerologie und Allergologie, Universitätsklinikum des Saarlandes, 66421 Homburg/Saar, Germany. hajrei@uniklinik-saarland.de
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uniklinikum-saarland.de%2Fxiteflex%2Flayout%2Fgfx%2Flogos%2Flogo-uks.gif&hash=d9c4246e5a1f4bb136b899139590b37e)
There is no doubt that solar ultraviolet (UV) exposure is the most important environmental risk factor for the development of non-melanoma skin cancer. Therefore, sun protection is of particular importance to prevent these malignancies, especially in risk groups. However, 90% of all requisite vitamin D has to be formed in the skin through the action of the sun-a serious problem, for a connection between vitamin D deficiency and a broad variety of independent diseases including various types of cancer, bone diseases, autoimmune diseases, hypertension and cardiovascular disease has now been clearly indicated in a large number of epidemiologic and laboratory studies. An important link that improved our understanding of these new findings was the discovery that the biologically active vitamin D metabolite 1,25(OH)(2)D is not exclusively produced in the kidney, but in many other tissues such as prostate, colon, skin and osteoblasts. Extra-renally produced 1,25(OH)(2)D is now considered to be an autocrine or paracrine hormone, regulating various cellular functions including cell growth. We and others have shown that strict sun protection causes vitamin D deficiency in risk groups. In the light of new scientific findings that convincingly demonstrate an association of vitamin D deficiency with a variety of severe diseases including various cancers, the detection and treatment of vitamin D deficiency in sun-deprived risk groups is of high importance. It has to be emphasized that in groups that are at high risk of developing vitamin D deficiency (e.g., nursing home residents or patients under immunosuppressive therapy), vitamin D status has to be monitored. Vitamin D deficiency should be treated, e.g., by giving vitamin D orally. Dermatologists and other clinicians have to recognize that there is convincing evidence that the protective effect of less intense solar UV radiation outweighs its mutagenic effects.
Although further work is necessary to define an adequate vitamin D status and adequate guidelines for solar UV exposure, it is at present mandatory that public health campaigns and recommendations of dermatologists on sun protection consider these facts.
Well-balanced recommendations on sun protection have to ensure an adequate vitamin D status, thereby protecting people against adverse effects of strict sun protection without significantly increasing the risk of developing UV-induced skin cancer.

Prog Biophys Mol Biol. 2006 Sep;92(1):9-16.

Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Variola on 03/04/2009 15:53:00
Iko if you are going to cite papers, please read them first. Simply posting extract from journals, no matter how well researched is not enough ( for me anyhow)

Quote
Recommendations to limit sun exposure to prevent skin cancer further complicate the ongoing debate about the health benefits of vitamin D3

From:Antimicrobial peptides and the skin immune defense system.

While the benefits of a good level of Vit D is in doubt, its capacity to 'kill' viruses, what type of viruses, if it kills bacterium, and how efficient it maybe is still in a lot of doubt.

It could be argued that a good diet and moderate exercise to ensure a full supply of the range of vitamins and trace elements is going to benefit anyones immunes system!
Having high or repleat levels of Vit D and being deficianet in others will affect any hypothesis that Vit D is the key to immne health.
 



Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 03/04/2009 16:14:20
...
Having high or repleat levels of Vit D and being deficianet in others will affect any hypothesis that Vit D is the key to immne health.  


No key role or major discovery..."a new weapon to kill the enemies".   [:D] [;D] [;D]
I thought we were discussing about a possible contribution, help to our immune defense.
Just that.
"Could vitamin D kill viruses?" is the title/question in this thread.
Sunlight is free, vitamin D3 very cheap, and many people and patients show a deficiency/insufficiency condition.
This is what vitamindcouncil.com is all about.
I enjoy citation cut&paste: good reading (perfect English!), nice pieces of concentrated peer-reviewed science.
Short bits of knowledge to share with others...in seconds.  For a nice and peaceful discussion.

ikoD





Iko if you are going to cite papers, please read them first. Simply posting extract from journals, no matter how well researched is not enough ( for me anyhow)


BTW I read Jorg Reichrath's 2006 article, it's relatively short and concise.
This review is even better and more recent!

Exp Dermatol. 2007 Jul;16(7):618-25.
Vitamin D and the skin: an ancient friend, revisited.
Reichrath J.
Klinik für Dermatologie, Venerologie und Allergologie, Universitätsklinikum des Saarlandes, Homburg/Saar, Germany. hajrei@uniklinik-saarland.de
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17576242?ordinalpos=17&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum


Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Yomi on 04/04/2009 11:58:02
no Viruses of some kind have abnormal structures of their body. proteins may be a a good killer of viruses than vitamins i think..
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 04/04/2009 18:43:08
While talking about the hypothetical influence of low ante-natal levels of vitamin D on the rates of autism surely you ought to menation that the stuff is a known teratogen.

Also, I'm puzzled- standards of ntrition have ben improving over the years- in particular people's consumption of fatty foods and, presumably, fat soluble vitamins has increased- so why is the rate of incidence of autism increasing?
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 05/04/2009 00:16:49
While talking about the hypothetical influence of low ante-natal levels of vitamin D on the rates of autism surely you ought to menation that the stuff is a known teratogen.

Also, I'm puzzled- standards of ntrition have ben improving over the years- in particular people's consumption of fatty foods and, presumably, fat soluble vitamins has increased- so why is the rate of incidence of autism increasing?

Most of the hormone/vitamin-D comes from sunlight exposure, not from the diet.
This is rather peculiar for a cofactor...making the whole issue more complex.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health/autism/




If you go out in the sun for about 10 minutes your skin produces maybe 20,000 IU; the average pill has about 200-400 IU in it, dietary sources are much lower. Skin self limits, but pills don't. But I think the studies seem to say you can take up to about ~20,000 IU without any known long term harm at all. I think about 100,000 IU/day would put you in hospital... eventually.

Only a few food sources (mainly oily fish) give only a few hundred IU per portion, and most foods give none at all. There's only about a dozen common foods that have any significant vitamin D in at all. Eggs, 20 IU, you would have to eat 5 eggs a day to get up to your daily requirement.

Hi wolfekeeper,

I agree with you.
Vitamin D is not a 'real' vitamin, a cofactor that you get from your diet.
It is a steroid hormone, produced by our skin through sunlight exposure.
Difficult to measure (nanograms per mL in the circulating blood), it's coming late as a wonderful agent, able to control the function of over 200 genes.
Recent research results are quite promising, and its anti-infective properties (through antibiotic peptides production) have been defined only 4-5 years ago.
The old cod liver oil given to TB patients in the last century is finally scientifically proven as a treatment support!


Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: kathforscience on 05/04/2009 17:23:18
Also, I'm puzzled- standards of ntrition have ben improving over the years- in particular people's consumption of fatty foods and, presumably, fat soluble vitamins has increased- so why is the rate of incidence of autism increasing?

It could be that we are getting better at recognising autism, not that more people are developing autism. The official numbers go up but the same number of people are affected.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Variola on 05/04/2009 20:48:20
Quote
It could be that we are getting better at recognising autism, not that more people are developing autism. The official numbers go up but the same number of people are affected.

Definately, also if you follow the mercury linked hypothesis that sparked the scare over MMR jabs, the level of mercury pollution is higher than was previously thought, so that might account for the seeming rise in cases. Plus some disorders are first diagnosed as Autism because they show similar phenotype, but are in fact subsequently rediagnosed as something else.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 05/04/2009 22:13:54
I thought that a man with a patent on a new vaccine started the MMR scare ratrher than any concern about mercury.

I accept that the number of diagnosed cases might be due to different diagnosis but doesn't that make it rather hard to pin down anything as the cause for it?

Also (as I pointed out a few posts back) the fact that sunlight is a major contributor to vitamin D productioon will make things complicarted.

But I'd still like you all to explain how come the virus  survived for decades in my sun loving aunt in South Africa. She must have been awash with the stuff- it it kills viruses why didn't it work? If it's because the skin shuts down production at levels too low to kill the viruses then what happenefd to evolution?
An individual with a mutation that led to higher levels of vitamin D (for a given amount of sunshine) ought to be less susceptible to viral disease. That's a very strong evolutionary pressure. Something must have held vitamin D production in check. Perhaps it's because at levels where it's toxic to viruses it's also toxic to people. For example, perhaps the documented teratogenicity was more important than some minor effect on viral disease.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Variola on 06/04/2009 16:22:14
Quote
I thought that a man with a patent on a new vaccine started the MMR scare ratrher than any concern about mercury.

Well that could have been the 'real' reason! But the supposed concern was that MMR contained Thimerosal as a preservative, which happened to have a slgtly higher mercury content than the single vaccines which contained a different preservative. But since everyone is exposed to small amounts of mercury in the environment and food, assessing the actualy lever of exposure of any individual is impossible.
They recommend that pregnant women limit their intake of deep sea fish like tuna and marlin now due to pollution levels found inside the fish.

Quote
But I'd still like you all to explain how come the virus  survived for decades in my sun loving aunt in South Africa. She must have been awash with the stuff- it it kills viruses why didn't it work? If it's because the skin shuts down production at levels too low to kill the viruses then what happenefd to evolution?

I can't because I don't think that any link between the level of vit D and the ability to fight infwction is anywhere near as linear or simple as people would like it to be.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 15/04/2009 14:38:39
Thanks for the comments.  I was particularly interested with information from Iko about a similar hypothesis has already been published in a scientific journal (although Iko's posting has since disappeared).

The question was highly speculative; I sent it to the Naked Scientists by email and they choose to post it on the forum.  Interestingly, they said that the topic would be covered in a future programme, although they didn't say whether it would be a programme about vitamin D (yes please) or viruses or something else.

My question really concerned the link between viruses and major diseases.  I suggested vitamin D only as a means to identify which diseases are caused by viruses.  There may be a better way#

#DeRisi Labs (http://derisilab.ucsf.edu) have created a "ViroChip" that can identify previously unknown viruses and have used it to find a virus in prostate cancer tumors (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17234809) (incidentally.prostate cancer and vitamin D have been linked - Vitamin D pill for prostate cancer (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6264533.stm))


Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 16/04/2009 22:17:36

Thanks for the comments.  I was particularly interested with information from Iko about a similar hypothesis has already been published in a scientific journal (although Iko's posting has since disappeared).

Hide & seek!
If you are really interested, you may find it easily enough: just search for "vitamin d" right in this forum!  [;)]
Enjoy.

ikoD
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 14/05/2009 11:11:18
New "hints" for this topic:
TBbacteria are not viruses -I know- but intracellular germs, difficult to eradicate.
Obviously "further studies" are needed...

Vitamin D as Adjunctive Therapy in Refractory Pulmonary Tuberculosis: A Case Report.



Yamshchikov AV, Oladele A, Leonard MK Jr, Blumberg HM, Ziegler TR, Tangpricha V.
From the Division of Infectious Diseases, Department of Medicine, Emory University-School of Medicine, Atlanta, GA; Central Dekalb County Health Center TB Control Program, Dekalb County Board of Health, Georgia Department of Human Resources, Decatur, GA; and Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Lipids, Department of Medicine, Emory University-School of Medicine, Atlanta, GA.

Vitamin D regulates calcium homeostasis in the body and may play a major role in regulating immune responses to tuberculosis (TB). Pilot studies suggest that vitamin D supplementation may improve outcomes in pulmonary TB (PTB), but clinical evidence using vitamin D in TB treatment is limited. We present a case of vitamin D deficiency in a woman with refractory drug-susceptible PTB. Antituberculous therapy and the correction of vitamin D deficiency resulted in clinical and microbiologic improvement at month 13 of her treatment. The basis for vitamin D/TB interactions and a brief literature review are discussed. Data from controlled trials are needed to evaluate the efficacy of vitamin D as adjunctive TB therapy.

South Med J. 2009 May 7. [Epub ahead of print]

Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 23/06/2009 14:17:41
golddina, www.vitaminsdeficiency.org is a vitamin shop and uses a lot of unsubstantiated hyperbole (in order to sells it vitamins, I presume).  You should take its declarations with a pinch of salt.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: wolfekeeper on 23/06/2009 15:04:41
While talking about the hypothetical influence of low ante-natal levels of vitamin D on the rates of autism surely you ought to menation that the stuff is a known teratogen.
What is this garbage? Vitamin D isn't a teratogen.

Vitamin *A* is a significant teratogen, and you could fairly easily reach toxicity from vitamin A in cod liver oil etc. Vitamin D just isn't.

Do you really not know the difference between vitamin A and D?
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 23/06/2009 19:33:57
While talking about the hypothetical influence of low ante-natal levels of vitamin D on the rates of autism surely you ought to menation that the stuff is a known teratogen.
What is this garbage? Vitamin D isn't a teratogen.

Vitamin *A* is a significant teratogen, and you could fairly easily reach toxicity from vitamin A in cod liver oil etc. Vitamin D just isn't.

Do you really not know the difference between vitamin A and D?


I know the difference. I also know a similarity.

"Excess maternal; vitamin D intake or extreme sensitivity to the vitamin has been shown to cause some congenital birth defects. "
from here.
http://www.prn2.usm.my/mainsite/bulletin/sun/1996/sun44.html

Similarly
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KZcOqBM-wVMC&pg=PA667&lpg=PA667&dq=%22vitamin+d%22+%22birth+defects%22&source=bl&ots=mAX7YwnZ5C&sig=ME9HI4vGAy-35Y2-CLI66j4oL6I&hl=en&ei=fR5BSuWQD8ihjAeyiYCiCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7

says the same sort of thing.

You might want to reappraise your assertion that this is garbage.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: wolfekeeper on 23/06/2009 20:05:30
That's at a dose of 10,000 IU per KILOGRAM (of the mother, so over 500,000 IU)!!!!

The normal RDA is about 200 IU per person!

These are stupendous doses, 2500 pills- about 20 whole bottles of vitamin pills!!!

By comparison, vitamin A, the normal RDA is about 5000 IU, whereas toxicity can start at about 15,000 IU.

From your second link: "However, Forbes (1979) replied editorially to this report that the animal experiments were not germane to the human situation due to the exaggerated doses required to produce the lesions"
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 23/06/2009 22:07:04
So, when it comes down to it the stuff is, as I said, teratogenic.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: wolfekeeper on 23/06/2009 22:26:43
Absolutely not, it has no proven, nor practical human teratogenicity.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 24/06/2009 06:53:46
Thankfully, proven human teratogens are rare. We try to avoid the experiments that proof would need.
The stuff is teratogenic in other animals.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: rhade on 24/06/2009 10:12:42
I think the very short answer is, if vitamin D did kill viruses, surely it would be widely prescribed for the purpose.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: wolfekeeper on 24/06/2009 14:02:20
I'm sure it has no direct attack on viruses or bacteria at any useful level. Vitamin D is a hormone that controls calcium and phosphate levels in higher organisms blood streams. Bacteria and viruses don't even have blood streams.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 25/06/2009 10:28:28
I'm sure it has no direct attack on viruses or bacteria at any useful level. Vitamin D is a hormone that controls calcium and phosphate levels in higher organisms blood streams. Bacteria and viruses don't even have blood streams.

...did anybody read about cathelicidin and other antibiotic peptides?   [???]
Interestingly enough, it is a rather recent discovery (less than 10yrs).
You might even enjoy some Michael Holick's paper or video:

It's never too late (sometimes)...
If you followed this thread so far,
you deserve to watch this free video:

"The Vitamin D Pandemic and its Health Consequences"

Presented by Michael Holick, PhD, MD, Professor of medicine, physiology and biophysics
and director of the General Clinical Research Center at Boston University Medical Center
Keynote address at the opening ceremony of the 34th European Symposium on Calcified Tissues, Copenhagen 5 May, 2007

http://www.uvadvantage.org/portals/0/pres/


(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uvadvantage.org%2Fportals%2F0%2Fpres%2Fvideo%2Fvideo%2Fslides%2Fslide413.jpg&hash=40b964c806c888175e1bbe2d84d92825)   

http://www.uvadvantage.org/portals/0/pres/video/video/slides/slide413.jpg
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 25/06/2009 12:06:59
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uvadvantage.org%2Fportals%2F0%2Fpres%2Fvideo%2Fvideo%2Fslides%2Fslide340.jpg&hash=c3314d2e003f6a56cd28e2a26f99e709)
http://www.uvadvantage.org/portals/0/pres/video/video/slides/slide413.jpg
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 05/08/2009 11:30:57
Hey, something is 'moving' on D-vitamin-flu connection side...  [;)]

Health agency to test link between flu, vitamin D

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/health-agency-to-test-link-between-flu-vitamin-d/article1231852/
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 12/08/2009 13:10:31
Quote
Millions of U.S. Children Low In Vitamin D (http://www.aecom.yu.edu/home/news.asp?id=392)

CONCLUSIONS

The increasing numbers of reports of rickets in Western industrialized nations are related to the practice of exclusive breastfeeding without concomitant vitamin D supplementation in northern latitudes, decreased UV-B exposure (particularly in dark-skinned people), and the excessive use of sunscreen.

Recommendations for vitamin D supplementation in breastfed infants should take into account skin pigmentation and geography.

Recommendations for fortification of commonly used foods with vitamin D are necessary in keeping with various cultural norms of food intake and geography.

Current recommendations of sun exposure and vitamin D supplementation are limited because of a paucity of studies in children, nonuniformity of 25(OH)-D assays used in research studies, and lack of uniformity in the description of normal and abnormal ranges for 25(OH)-D levels in children.

More studies are necessary in children using standard assays to determine safe levels of sun exposure and resultant vitamin D levels, as well as the 25(OH)-D levels below which pathologic changes begin. A low threshold for assessing vitamin D sufficiency in infants, children, and adolescents is recommended given the growing knowledge about effects of vitamin D not only on bone mineral metabolism but also on the immune system and in preventing various kinds of cancer.

Data indicate greater health care costs from diseases related to vitamin D deficiency than from those caused by excessive exposure to UVR, indicating the need for a reexamination of recommendations for sun-avoidant behavior, including the use of sunscreens.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 01/09/2009 13:16:22
Here are the new stories:
  • Diabetes + Virus (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7926026.stm)
  • ...

Here are some Vitamin D research links:
  • Diabetes (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7290423.stm) (PubMed - Vitamin D supplementation in early childhood and risk of type 1 diabetes: a systematic review and meta-analysis. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18339654?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum))
  • ...


Quote

Seasonal variation of diagnosis of Type 1 diabetes mellitus in children worldwide (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122371937/abstract)

ABSTRACT

Aims To determine if there is a worldwide seasonal pattern in the clinical onset of Type 1 diabetes.

Methods Analysis of the seasonality in diagnosis of Type 1 diabetes was based on the incidence data in 0- to 14-year-old children collected by the World Health Organization Diabetes Mondiale (WHO DiaMond) Project over the period 1990–1999. One hundred and five centres from 53 countries worldwide provided enough data for the seasonality analysis. The incidence seasonality patterns were also determined for age- and sex-specific groups.

Results Forty-two out of 105 centres exhibited significant seasonality in the incidence of Type 1 diabetes (P < 0.05). The existence of significant seasonal patterns correlated with higher level of incidence and of the average yearly counts. The correlation disappeared after adjustment for latitude. Twenty-eight of those centres had peaks in October to January and 33 had troughs in June to August. Two out of the four centres with significant seasonality in the southern hemisphere demonstrated a different pattern with a peak in July to September and a trough in January to March.

Conclusions The seasonality of the incidence of Type 1 diabetes mellitus in children under 15 years of age is a real phenomenon, as was reported previously and as is now demonstrated by this large standardized study. The seasonality pattern appears to be dependent on the geographical position, at least as far as the northern/southern hemisphere dichotomy is concerned. However, more data are needed on the populations living below the 30th parallel north in order to complete the picture.


The research highlights a seasonal (winter is worse) and a geographical (further away from equator is worse) link to diabetes 1.  In other words when/where sunlight is weaker.

An analysis of the science can be found on the NHS's Behind The Headlines (http://www.nhs.uk/news/2009/08August/Pages/IsType1diabetesseasonal.aspx)
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/09/2009 19:33:20
So Diabetes is related to the weather? That's interesing.
Of course, if it were caused by a virus it would be expected to occur in "outbreaks" like 'flu or chickenpox.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 03/09/2009 14:46:20
I'm unable to access the research document in order to find out if any outbreaks were identified

The BBC News article on viruses and diabetes type 1 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7926026.stm) links diabetes to enteroviruses, although the researchers were unable to identify which type.

From the article:
Quote
... enteroviruses - a common family of viruses which cause symptoms such as vomiting and diarrhoea

Here some more information on enteroviruses from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterovirus):
Quote
Human enteroviruses (family Picornaviridae) infect millions of people worldwide each year, resulting in a wide range of clinical outcomes ranging from unapparent infection to mild respiratory illness (common cold), hand, foot and mouth disease, acute hemorrhagic conjunctivitis, aseptic meningitis, myocarditis, severe neonatal sepsis-like disease, and acute flaccid paralysis.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand,_foot_and_mouth_disease) on hand, foot and mouth disease:
Quote
It typically occurs in small epidemics in nursery schools or kindergartens, usually during the summer and autumn months.

So maybe it does occur in outbreaks.  A statistician is needed to take the researchers' seasonal diabetes figures and quickly identify whether they have such a pattern or not.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 08/09/2009 14:07:11
Another one, this time prostate cancer

From Science Daily - First Evidence Of Virus In Malignant Prostate Cells: XMRV Retrovirus Linked To More Aggressive Tumors (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090907162310.htm)

From Medline (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19444909):
Quote
Life course sun exposure and risk of prostate cancer: population-based nested case-control study and meta-analysis

...

Our data and meta-analyses provide limited support for the hypothesis that increased exposure to sunlight may reduce prostate cancer risk. The findings warrant further investigation because of their implications for vitamin D chemoprevention trials.

2009 UICC
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 08/09/2009 19:27:47
"Our data and meta-analyses provide limited support "
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 15/09/2009 13:00:51
And another for multiple sclerosis

From Science Daily - Linking Epstein-Barr Virus To Multiple Sclerosis (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090914111535.htm)

From Times - Vitamin D is ray of sunshine for multiple sclerosis patients (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5663483.ece)

From PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9316607)

Quote
Vitamin D and multiple sclerosis

Recently, it has been clearly demonstrated that exogenous 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3, the hormonal form of vitamin D3, can completely prevent experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE), a widely accepted mouse model of human multiple sclerosis (MS).

This finding has focused attention on the possible relationship of this disease to vitamin D. Although genetic traits certainly contribute to MS susceptibility, an environmental factor is also clearly involved. It is our hypothesis that one crucial environmental factor is the degree of sunlight exposure catalyzing the production of vitamin D3 in skin, and, further, that the hormonal form of vitamin D3 is a selective immune system regulator inhibiting this autoimmune disease.

Thus, under low-sunlight conditions, insufficient vitamin D3 is produced, limiting production of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3, providing a risk for MS. Although the evidence that vitamin D3 is a protective environmental factor against MS is circumstantial, it is compelling. This theory can explain the striking geographic distribution of MS, which is nearly zero in equatorial regions and increases dramatically with latitude in both hemispheres.

It can also explain two peculiar geographic anomalies, one in Switzerland with high MS rates at low altitudes and low MS rates at high altitudes, and one in Norway with a high MS prevalence inland and a lower MS prevalence along the coast. Ultraviolet (UV) light intensity is higher at high altitudes, resulting in a greater vitamin D3 synthetic rate, thereby accounting for low MS rates at higher altitudes. On the Norwegian coast, fish is consumed at high rates and fish oils are rich in vitamin D3.

Further, experimental work on EAE provides strong support for the importance of vitamin D3 in reducing the risk and susceptibility for MS. If this hypothesis is correct, then 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 or its analogs may have great therapeutic potential in patients with MS.

More importantly, current research together with data from migration studies opens the possibility that MS may be preventable in genetically susceptible individuals with early intervention strategies that provide adequate levels of hormonally active 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 or its analogs.

More MS research can be found here (http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/researchMS.shtml)

Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/09/2009 19:41:24
From time to time I get a cold- It's a viral infection.
I get a headache and a runny nose so I take one of the over-the-counter remedies that are on the market. The symptoms are reduced.
Nobody claims that the aspirin and decongestant are killing the cold virus.

Vitamin D may well cure the symptoms of MS and (at least some cases of) MS may be caused by a virus. (And if that's generally true then it's certainly interesting, in spite of the toxicity of vitamin D.)
That doesn't mean that vitamin D kills the virus.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: rhade on 16/09/2009 15:50:52
Call me ultra picky, but I don't think that "cure" the symptoms is a good choice of word. I think "treat" the symptoms is better, as, if I am interpretting your meaning correctly, Boredchemist, you are stating that the virus is still present, but you feel a certain amount of relief from the symptoms.

Also, with most of these over the counter cold remedies, any relief is probably largely a placebo effect. Have you ever noticed how the wording on the package always says "remedy", not "cure"? No breaking the law by making totally false advertising claims!
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2009 19:19:39
I agree that remmedies (which offer symptomatic relief) are different from cures (which remove the root cause of the problem).
I'm not sure which category this falls into "Recently, it has been clearly demonstrated that exogenous 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3, the hormonal form of vitamin D3, can completely prevent experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE)".
It's asserted to be preventative but I doubt they mean "take Vitamin D once and never get troubled by EAE" in the way that a measles jab is preventative- take it once and forget about measles forever.
It's difficult to know, from that quote, what this effect really is. I'm pleased to see that some progress is being made in this field.
Anyway this thread's about Vit D killing viruses and that report isn't an answer to that question.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 18/09/2009 12:35:51
From time to time I get a cold- It's a viral infection.
I get a headache and a runny nose so I take one of the over-the-counter remedies that are on the market. The symptoms are reduced.
Nobody claims that the aspirin and decongestant are killing the cold virus.

Vitamin D may well cure the symptoms of MS and (at least some cases of) MS may be caused by a virus. (And if that's generally true then it's certainly interesting, in spite of the toxicity of vitamin D.)
That doesn't mean that vitamin D kills the virus.

My intention hasn't been to suggest that vitamin D3 literally kills the virus rather that it is improves the killing mechanism.  In this respect, the thread title is a tad misleading.

Maybe the title should have been "Does a high level (>50ng/mL) of 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] modulate the immune system such that it can better fight bacterial and viral infections?  Thus do the empirical correlations that exist between 25(OH)D levels and certain diseases - MS, certain cancers, diabetes, heart disease, schizophrenia, and others - allow us to infer that those diseases are caused by infection?" but it's not as catchy.

Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: rhade on 22/09/2009 15:51:56
Of course, it is possible to overdose on vitamins.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Variola on 23/09/2009 09:23:14
Perhaps the angle would have been better if it had focussed on reported cases of high Vit D3 levels having some significant benefit on a condition? With subsequent discussion and analysis after. 
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 10/11/2009 22:58:35
The answer to the question "Could vitamin D kill viruses?" is YES

As iko (http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4120) pointed out in this post (http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=24786.msg281355#msg281355), vitamin D is involved in the production of human cathelicidin - LL-37.

Quote

Human Cathelicidin (LL-37), a Multifunctional Peptide, is Expressed by Ocular Surface Epithelia and has Potent Antibacterial and Antiviral Activity (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1497871)

We report for the first time that LL-37 demonstrates significant antiviral inhibitory activity (>98% inhibition) against HSV-1 [Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1], the leading viral cause of corneal blindness in industrialized countries.

Additionally, we report for the first time that LL- 37 demonstrated statistically significant inhibitory activity in vitro against Ad19 [Adenovirus], a major cause of conjunctivitis and epidemic keratoconjunctivitis in local and global epidemics.


Quote

Selective killing of vaccinia virus by LL-37: implications for eczema vaccinatum (http://www.jimmunol.org/cgi/content/full/172/3/1763)

The current study is the first to identify human and murine cathelicidins as innate antimicrobial peptides capable of interfering in vitro and in vivo with replication of vaccinia virus.



Quote

The antimicrobial peptide LL-37 inhibits HIV-1 replication (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17627504)

Here we demonstrate that LL-37 inhibits HIV-1 replication in PBMC, including primary CD4+ T cells


Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 11/11/2009 07:09:22
LL37 isn't vit D.
Imagine someone who's body failed to make LL37 for some reason. All the Vit D in the world wouldn't help him by killing viruses.
Clearly someone who is deficient in Vit D is going to be in poor health and less able to fight infection but that's hardly the same as saying vitamin D kills viruses.

Sadly there are many people in the world who do not get enough to eat. This leaves them open to all sorts of infections including viruses.
It's fair to say that chocolate cake would help them simply because it would provide calories (and some vitamins + proteins etc).

Do you claim that chocolate cake kills viruses?
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 12/11/2009 20:53:31
Bored lawyer,

We are playing with words, aren't we?
I could find many examples to justify that someone somewhere might dare say:
"Vitamin D kills viruses"
We agree with you: it may do it INDIRECTLY.
Vaccinations kill diseases, eliminating them by immune activation as well.
Don't be too fussy. Please  [;)]

ikod
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/11/2009 21:42:58
So, you do think that, albeit indirectly, chocolate cake kills viruses.
Fair enough. My opinion is different.
Incidentally, I think that many aspects of the immune system depend on one or more vitamins in one way or another. For example it's fair to say that without our skin we wuld be much more susceptible to viral attack. Vitamin C is vital in the production of the collagen which holds that skin together.
Without vitamin C we would be more prone to viral infection.
Does that make vitamin C a viruscide?
Do all vitamins kill viruses?
In the end, what doesn't kill them?

The problem with accepting Kevan's post as evidence thet Vit D kills viruses is that it leads to the view that damned near everything else does. That rather reduces the meaning of the statement.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 23/11/2009 20:19:27
"I didn't kill him, your honour, it was the bullet.  I only pulled the trigger!"

VDRs (vitamin D receptors) occur next to CAMP (cathelicidin anti-microbial peptide) genes and up-regulate them (turn them on) in response to infection.

Guilty!
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 24/11/2009 07:08:15
 The statement "I didn't kill him, your honour, it was the bullet.  I only pulled the trigger!"
Might be made in court by the accused- but it's not going to get him very far.

On the other hand, the statement "Your honour, the cause of death was a gunshot wound to chest." is likely to come from a scientist and would be accepted.
There's a difference between cause and culpability which is why we generally accept that very young children and people with mental health problems may not be guilty of murder, even when it's clear they killed someone. Of course, unless you claim that vitamin D has free will and is responsible for its actions this whole idea is a strawman.


I guess it's entirely possible that someone could fatally shoot someone accidentally because the bullet was faulty.
For example the security services sometimes use hollow point amunition - the idea being that it doesn't generally go through someone.
Imagine that a security officer on a plane shot a terrorist but, unfortunately, because the bullet was faulty, it went through the terrorist and also killed a bystander.
In that instance, the claim "it wasn't me; it was the bullet", would be a legitimate reason.

I take it you are planning to prescribe chocolate cake as a viruscide.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 24/11/2009 22:07:12
So, you do think that, albeit indirectly, chocolate cake kills viruses.
Fair enough. My opinion is different.
Incidentally, I think that many aspects of the immune system depend on one or more vitamins in one way or another. For example it's fair to say that without our skin we wuld be much more susceptible to viral attack. Vitamin C is vital in the production of the collagen which holds that skin together.
Without vitamin C we would be more prone to viral infection.
Does that make vitamin C a viruscide?
Do all vitamins kill viruses?
In the end, what doesn't kill them?


Few vitamin deficiencies lead to an infection as cause of death.
Scurvy is one: either infection or cardiac arrest (not hemorrhage as commonly thought).
Thiamine (B1) deficiency (beri-beri) gives you heart failure or nervous system damage from confusion to paralysis and coma. Immune defense still works fine, but cell 'batteries' run out of energy in crucial organs, so patients die before suffering any viral or bacterial attack.
When rickets was common in children, a 13times higher incidence of pneumonia had been reported.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=4987.msg168987#msg168987

Help.  Few years ago I posted a question about vitD deficiency in leukemia:
"Could vitamin D HELP in leukemia treatment?"
Similarly, "could vitamin D help in killing viruses?"
should be the new title of this thread...  [;)]
To have a proper discussion around here.

Dear Kevan, it's up to you, this is your topic. 
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 25/11/2009 12:53:47
And a change of title would placate BC?  I suspect his mind is made up (vitamin = alternative medicine = cr*p) which is why he is playing Pendantic Semantics.

The dictionary definition of kill is 'cause the death of'.  No free will or culpability is required.  And in the example, the security officer did 'cause the death of', i.e. kill, the bystander.

BC aside, if anyone is interested reading more on vitamin D and cathelicidin try this recent article on the genetic history of the CAMP gene - Exaptation of an ancient Alu short interspersed element provides a highly conserved vitamin D-mediated innate immune response in humans and primates (Gombart et al., 2009) (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15322146) - "VDR-signaling increases production of hCAP18/LL-37 protein (encoded by the CAMP gene) to kill the pathogen".  The References section contains a comprehensive list of recent research in the field.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 25/11/2009 18:18:34
Thank you so much Kevan,

I'm going to print the whole article for a good reading...

"1,25(OH)(2)D(3) thus directly regulates antimicrobial peptide gene expression, revealing
 the potential of its analogues in treatment of opportunistic infections."

...a promising conclusion indeed!   [:)]
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 25/11/2009 18:51:44
"I suspect his mind is made up (vitamin = alternative medicine = cr*p)"
An odd thing for you to suspect. I have made it quite clear that I know that vitamins have a vital role.
What my mind is made up about is the assertion that "vitamins can do magic" is crap.
Take some suitable virus, lets say ebola. Shake it up with some vitamin D then mix it into some saline and inject it. Feel free to extract the excess vitamin D if you are worried about its toxicity.

If you do that then if you ask me a week later, I will do the same using bleach (which does kill viruses) rather than Vit D.

Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 29/11/2009 20:15:52
What my mind is made up about is the assertion that "vitamins can do magic" is crap.

Vitamin D is unique amongst vitamins because it's a pre-hormone and is part of the endocrine system.  Genetic research from the last 10-20 years has revealed that vitamin D (as calcitriol) regulates many important functions throughout the body, including immunity, inflammation and cell propagation.  These functions are linked to a number of morbidities.

Ecological studies link latitude and skin colour to 'vitamin D' morbidities; cohort studies link low vitamin D levels with 'vitamin D' morbidities; epidemiological studies show high levels of vitamin D deficiency by latitude and by skin colour; the few RCTs involving large dose supplementation show that vitamin D significantly reduces 'vitamin D' morbidities.

Not "vitamins", just vitamin D; not magic, just science.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 29/11/2009 22:13:27
What my mind is made up about is the assertion that "vitamins can do magic" is crap.

Vitamin D is unique amongst vitamins because it's a pre-hormone and is part of the endocrine system.  Genetic research from the last 10-20 years has revealed that vitamin D (as calcitriol) regulates many important functions throughout the body, including immunity, inflammation and cell propagation.  These functions are linked to a number of morbidities.

Ecological studies link latitude and skin colour to 'vitamin D' morbidities; cohort studies link low vitamin D levels with 'vitamin D' morbidities; epidemiological studies show high levels of vitamin D deficiency by latitude and by skin colour; the few RCTs involving large dose supplementation show that vitamin D significantly reduces 'vitamin D' morbidities.

Not "vitamins", just vitamin D; not magic, just science.


You are exactly right Kevan,

but we have to tell the whole story:
why such a simple and cheap remedy is coming so late in modern medicine?
I can give you some good reasons to 'justify' such a delay:
- Vitamin D is not a vitamin, but a steroid hormone acting on specific cell receptors.
- The dosage in serum is tricky and expensive: large studies are coming out only now.
- Normal levels are expressed in ng/mL or nmol/ml, just for the fun of it...
- The active form, calcitriol, has been improperly used instead of replenishing 25-OHvitD pool.
- Toxicity has been overestimated: 400U/day failed where 2000U/day are making the trick.
- Cholecalciferol or vitamin D3 is a 'generic' drug, too cheap to support clinical trials.

Do you want to play the doctor?
Just read this amazing case report, free-fulltext from Canada:

http://www.jabfm.org/cgi/reprint/22/1/69

Now look for a chronic-back-pain patient, get a history of lack of sunlight exposure, no cod liver oil or vitamin D supplements and suggest her/him to have 25-OHvitaminD tested.
If the result is below 20 ng/ml...Bingo!  Send her/him to a doctor for a 50kU/week x 8weeks prescription.  A clinician will exclude any condition of vitD toxicity or intolerance and monitor calcium levels if necessary.
The following two-three weeks might be really magic for that patient...
Unbelievable? On my part, I don't think so anymore!  [;)]



Improvement of chronic back pain or failed back surgery with vitamin D repletion: a case series.

Schwalfenberg G.

Department of Family Medicine, University of Alberta, Canada. gschwalf@telus.net

This article reviews 6 selected cases of improvement/resolution of chronic back pain or failed back surgery after vitamin D repletion in a Canadian family practice setting. Pub Med was searched for articles on chronic back pain, failed back surgery, and vitamin D deficiency. Chronic low back pain and failed back surgery may improve with repletion of vitamin D from a state of deficiency/insufficiency to sufficiency. Vitamin D insufficiency is common; repletion of vitamin D to normal levels in patients who have chronic low back pain or have had failed back surgery may improve quality of life or, in some cases, result in complete resolution of symptoms.

J Am Board Fam Med.2009 Jan-Feb;22(1):69-74.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 30/11/2009 18:26:59
Just in case you all missed this the first time I posted it.
Take some suitable virus, lets say Ebola. Shake it up with some vitamin D then mix it into some saline and inject it. Feel free to extract the excess vitamin D if you are worried about its toxicity.

If you do that then if you ask me a week later, I will do the same using bleach (which does kill viruses) rather than Vit D

Unless you are prepared to take part in this experiment you are accepting that vitamin D doesn't kill viruses.
What you need is a thread called something like "Vitmin D odes some really interesting things including modifying the human immune response."
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 30/11/2009 22:16:34
"Vitmin D odes"...oh sure!  [;D]


Odes to Honey:  http://kaleidoscope.cultural-china.com/en/121Kaleidoscope4118.html
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 02/12/2009 21:19:54
Unless you are prepared to take part in this experiment you are accepting that vitamin D doesn't kill viruses.

Give it up BC!

Beside the glaring false dichotomy, it has never suggested that vitamin D can kill all viruses or that it could kill a particular virus with 100% certainty.  Only that vitamin D is part of the innate immune system, via the production of cathelicidin, and can 'cause the death of' some viruses.  And the comparison with bleach is nonsense.

Retort with science rather than the ridiculous, please!
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 02/12/2009 21:33:31
This post was originally an private email to Dr Chris.  It was highly speculative and I sent it to him because he is a living, breathing virologist.

Evidence has since been documented in this post that shows vitamin D is part of the innate immune system via the production of the anti-microbial peptides and that, in particular, cathelicidin has anti-viral properties.  There is also evidence that viruses may be the cause of some 'vitamin D deficient' morbidities - hypertension, MS, pancreatic cancer, prostate cancer.  Is it possible the reason for the correlation is that a sufficient vitamin D level can prevent viral infections and thus prevent the onset of said morbidities?

Dr Chris, what is your view?
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 03/12/2009 19:28:35
"Beside the glaring false dichotomy, it has never suggested that vitamin D can kill all viruses"
Please provide the details of any virus that it kills in the sort of experiment I described.
Even any virus where there's a reduction of the titre by a few log units would do.

My point is that it has not (at least here) been shown to kill any virus. It really is a viruscide in that same way that chocolate cake is.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 11/12/2009 17:48:11
Allow me a cut&paste: Historical notes about vitamin D 'power'!  [;D]

...even if you were a young lion, without proper sunlight exposure...you would be just dead.

Some recent discussion about ancient reports of cod liver oil use...

(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kipling.org.uk%2Fpix%2Fblandsutton.jpg&hash=ef1e7ad114b0298bf16cb5e8409ff403)      (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2008%2F12%2F12%2Farticle-1094093-02C72154000005DC-139_468x297_popup.jpg&hash=b3adcdea8f8c25424cd12d940d097e20)


http://www.kipling.org.uk/pix/blandsutton.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/12/12/article-1094093-02C72154000005DC-139_468x297_popup.jpg



Rickets in Lion Cubs at the London Zoo in 1889: Some New Insights.


Chesney RW, Hedberg G.
aDepartment of Pediatrics, University of Tennessee Health Science Center, Memphis, Tennessee.

In 1889, when Dr John Bland-Sutton, a prominent surgeon in London, England, was consulted concerning fatal rickets in more than 20 successive litters of lion cubs at the London Zoo, he evaluated the role of diet relative to the development of rickets. He prescribed goat meat and bones and cod-liver oil to be added to the lean horse-meat diet of the cubs and their mothers. Rickets reversed, the cubs survived, and litters were reared successfully. In classic controlled studies conducted in puppies and young rats 3 decades later, the crucial role of calcium, phosphate, and vitamin D in both prevention and therapy of rickets was elucidated. Later studies led to the identification of the structural features of vitamin D. Although the Bland-Sutton interventional diet obviously provides calcium and phosphate from bones and vitamin D from cod-liver oil, other benefits of this diet were not initially recognized.
Chewing bones promotes tooth and gum health and removes bacteria-laden tartar.
Cod-liver oil also contains vitamin A, which is essential for the prevention of infection and for epithelial cell health. Taurine-conjugated bile salts are also necessary for the intestinal absorption of fat-soluble vitamins, including A and D. Moreover, unlike dogs and rats, all feline species are unable to synthesize taurine yet can only conjugate bile acids with taurine. This sulfur-containing beta-amino acid must be provided in the carnivorous diet of a large cat.
Taurine-conjugated bile salts were provided in the oil cold-pressed from cod liver.
The now famous Bland-Sutton "experiment of nature," namely, fatal rickets in lion cubs, was cured by the addition of minerals and vitamin D. However, gum health and the presence of taurine-conjugated bile salts undoubtedly permitted absorption of vitamin A and D, the latter promoting the cure of rickets.

Pediatrics. 2009 Apr 6. [Epub ahead of print]


Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: alanan on 30/12/2009 05:09:41
During the last winter,when people all around me were contacting various strains of influenza I took 4,000 units of vitamin d per day. I did not have any flu vaccinations, and I went through the winter without catching a cold or Flu. That's good enough for me. alanan
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 30/12/2009 12:04:25
You did the right thing...but this is not enough, scientifically speaking:
fortunately flu epidemics hit a relatively small percentage of people.
I'm sure you know Dr. John Cannell's story:

http://foodconsumer.org/7777/8888/N_utrition_35/022602552009_Vitamin_D_deficiency_linked_to_influenza.shtml

...and if you decide to go on with your 'treatment' in the near future, you might enjoy other more important benefits of D-vitamin, which is not a vitamin but a hormone produced by proper sunlight exposure: the sunshine hormone.  [;)]

(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg105.imageshack.us%2Fimg105%2F6145%2F061031ssajulianeuz9.jpg&hash=a01acc1ef9eab7dcf03b30fdf79d52d6)
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6145/061031ssajulianeuz9.jpg
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: alanan on 03/01/2010 07:29:52
you would not absorb much sunlight with that ski suit on!!~
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 03/01/2010 18:17:13
'course not... [;)]

You do it easily after ≈30 minutes of sunlight exposure with sunglasses and no protection!  [;D]


(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.visitnorway.com%2FImageVault%2FImages%2Fid_827%2FconversionFormat_13%2FImageVaultHandler.aspx&hash=c420e9af44e02852b74fce1b812522dd)
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lung.ca%2Ftb%2Fimages%2Ffull_archive%2F081_sun_treatment.jpg&hash=c437f1f6d2c72006f32ec0e049f264c4)
http://www.visitnorway.com/ImageVault/Images/id_827/conversionFormat_13/ImageVaultHandler.aspx
http://www.lung.ca/tb/images/full_archive/081_sun_treatment.jpg



http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=5065.100
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 15/01/2010 13:47:24
Good to see the results from some trials coming through.

From Haaretz (http://"http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1142539.html") (Israeli newspaper)

Quote
Vitamin D could help fight hepatitis C

A new study has found that administering vitamin D to hepatitis C patients dramatically reduces the presence of the virus in the blood.

The study, carried out at Rebecca Sieff Hospital in Safed and Hillel Yaffeh Medical Center in Hadera by Dr. Assy Nimer and Dr. Saif Abu-Mouch covered 90 hepatitis C patients.

The findings were presented in late November at a conference of the American Association for the Study of Liver Diseases.

For six months, in addition to the standard treatment, which included Interferon once a week and a daily dose of the antiviral drug Ribavirin, 30 patients were also treated with 1,000 units of vitamin D a day. A control group of 60 patients went without the vitamin.

In order to assess the impact of vitamin D on the treatment of the disease, before starting the study, all patients, including those from the control group and those who were found to have a vitamin D deficiency, were given supplements, so that all participants began the study from the same point.

A month after the start of treatment, the virus had disappeared from the blood in 44 percent of the group receiving vitamin D supplements, as opposed to just 18 percent among the control group.

After three months, the success rate for the group getting the supplement rose to 96 percent, compared to 48 percent in the control group.

Other findings from the study, which will be presented next month in Kfar Blum at a conference of the Israeli Association for the Study of the Liver, indicate that this trend continues even after the end of drug treatment.

The initial results show that six months after the end of treatment, 90 percent of patients treated with drug therapy and vitamin D supplements had the virus disappear and completely recovered.

"The drug treatment for hepatitis C patients is usually administered for around a year, and occasionally the virus disappears from the blood, but remains in other places, for example, in the liver and lymph glands," explained Nimer, the director of the Liver Disease Unit at Rebecca Sieff Hospital. "At the end of the treatment, the virus may return to the blood, but we found that in patients who were also given the vitamin D supplement, the virus did not return, that is, it was excreted by the body."

How vitamin D helps improve the condition of hepatitis patients is not entirely clear. However, according to Nimer, "It has already been proven that vitamin D benefits the immune system by increasing the activity of T cells [white blood cells that help in the fight against pathogens], improves the body's reaction to the insulin hormone, and reduces the level of pro-inflammatory proteins that cause liver infections caused by viruses."

...


Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: ch3ls3a on 20/01/2010 17:35:21
Hello,
Im not sure about viruses but psoriasis (a disease which affects the skin) can be almost cured when the affected skin is in direct sunlight which contains big amounts of vitamin D so this could help kill viruses  [???]
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: syhprum on 06/02/2010 18:17:31
As a boy in the thirties suffering fro asthma I used to visit Great Ormand street hospital to be irradiated with UV presumably to create vitamin D.
I cannot recall if it did any good.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 18/02/2010 14:21:56
As a boy in the thirties suffering fro asthma I used to visit Great Ormond street hospital to be irradiated with UV presumably to create vitamin D.
I cannot recall if it did any good.



...vitamin d and asthma: new studies for a new century!!!   [:D]


Vitamin D, the immune system and asthma.

Lange NE, Litonjua A, Hawrylowicz CM, Weiss S.

Channing Laboratory, Division of Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine, Brigham & Women's Hospital, 181 Longwood Avenue, Boston, MA 02115, USA Tel.: +1 617 525 0874 nlange@partners.org.

The effects of vitamin D on bone metabolism and calcium homeostasis have long been recognized. Emerging evidence has implicated vitamin D as a critical regulator of immunity, playing a role in both the innate and cell-mediated immune systems. Vitamin D deficiency has been found to be associated with several immune-mediated diseases, susceptibility to infection and cancer. Recently, there has been increasing interest in the possible link between vitamin D and asthma. Further elucidation of the role of vitamin D in lung development and immune system function may hold profound implications for the prevention and treatment of asthma.

Expert Rev Clin Immunol. 2009 Nov;5(6):693-702.


Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Variola on 08/03/2010 10:37:09
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7379094/Vitamin-D-triggers-and-arms-the-immune-system.html

Get out in that frosty morning sunshine...!
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 09/03/2010 20:34:59
Here's the abstract from Nature Immunology (http://doi:10.1038/ni.1851)

Quote
Vitamin D controls T cell antigen receptor signaling and activation of human T cells

Abstract

Phospholipase C (PLC) isozymes are key signaling proteins downstream of many extracellular stimuli. Here we show that naive human T cells had very low expression of PLC-γ1 and that this correlated with low T cell antigen receptor (TCR) responsiveness in naive T cells. However, TCR triggering led to an upregulation of ~75-fold in PLC-γ1 expression, which correlated with greater TCR responsiveness. Induction of PLC-γ1 was dependent on vitamin D and expression of the vitamin D receptor (VDR). Naive T cells did not express VDR, but VDR expression was induced by TCR signaling via the alternative mitogen-activated protein kinase p38 pathway. Thus, initial TCR signaling via p38 leads to successive induction of VDR and PLC-γ1, which are required for subsequent classical TCR signaling and T cell activation.


From the Copenhagen University press release (http://news.ku.dk/all_news/2010/2010.3/d_vitamin)

Quote

"We have discovered that the first stage in the activation of a T cell involves vitamin D, explains Professor Carsten Geisler from the Department of International Health, Immunology and Microbiology. When a T cell is exposed to a foreign pathogen, it has an immediate biochemical reaction and extends a signaling device or ‘antenna' known as a vitamin D receptor, with which it search for vitamin D. This means that the T cell must have vitamin D or activation of the cell will cease. If the T cells cannot find enough vitamin D in the blood, they won't even begin to mobilise."



Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 09/03/2010 20:43:19

Get out in that frosty morning sunshine...!


Unfortunately at a latitude of 52o (Birmingham) and above, the winter sun is too low in the sky for UVB light to create vitamin D in the skin for 6 months of the year (October to March) 1.


1. Webb, A. R., Kline, L. &  Holick, M. F. Influence of season and latitude on the cutaneous synthesis of vitamin d3: Exposure to winter sunlight in boston and edmonton will not promote vitamin d3 synthesis in human skin. J Clin Endocrinol Metab  67, 373-378 (1988). http://dx.doi.org/10.1210/jcem-67-2-373
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Joe.X on 10/03/2010 05:11:10
Vitamin D have been vertificated to be a activator in T cell immunology by Denmarkish
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: alanan on 12/03/2010 05:56:48
Try looking at this site http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/study-vitamin-kills-cancer-cells/story?id=9904415
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 13/03/2010 19:11:15
Try looking at this site http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/study-vitamin-kills-cancer-cells/story?id=9904415
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi28.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc243%2Feastlmark%2F1190546ddac301f666.gif&hash=11b9386b1959f60249d497ca701482ce)
Exciting and quite promising, alanan...
...nevertheless: "In Tests, Vitamin D Shrinks Breast Cancer Cells.
Results Encouraging, But Don't Read Too Much Into Them, Says Dr. Richard Besser".

There is something new about vitamin D and influenza viruses...
a bit closer to the title of this very thread:


Randomized trial of vitamin D supplementation
 to prevent seasonal influenza A in schoolchildren.

Urashima M, Segawa T, Okazaki M, Kurihara M, Wada Y, Ida H.
Division of Molecular Epidemiology Jikei University School of Medicine Minato-ku Tokyo Japan.

BACKGROUND: To our knowledge, no rigorously designed clinical trials have evaluated the relation between vitamin D and physician-diagnosed seasonal influenza.
OBJECTIVE: We investigated the effect of vitamin D supplements on the incidence of seasonal influenza A in schoolchildren.
DESIGN: From December 2008 through March 2009, we conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial comparing vitamin D(3) supplements (1200 IU/d) with placebo in schoolchildren. The primary outcome was the incidence of influenza A, diagnosed with influenza antigen testing with a nasopharyngeal swab specimen.
RESULTS: Influenza A occurred in 18 of 167 (10.8%) children in the vitamin D(3) group compared with 31 of 167 (18.6%) children in the placebo group [relative risk (RR), 0.58; 95% CI: 0.34, 0.99; P = 0.04]. The reduction in influenza A was more prominent in children who had not been taking other vitamin D supplements (RR: 0.36; 95% CI: 0.17, 0.79; P = 0.006) and who started nursery school after age 3 y (RR: 0.36; 95% CI: 0.17, 0.78; P = 0.005). In children with a previous diagnosis of asthma, asthma attacks as a secondary outcome occurred in 2 children receiving vitamin D(3) compared with 12 children receiving placebo (RR: 0.17; 95% CI: 0.04, 0.73; P = 0.006).

CONCLUSION: This study suggests that vitamin D(3) supplementation during the winter may reduce the incidence of influenza A, especially in specific subgroups of schoolchildren.

This trial was registered at https://center.umin.ac.jp as UMIN000001373.

Am J Clin Nutr. 2010 Mar 10. [Epub ahead of print]


Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: linda5508 on 03/06/2010 19:35:06
well yes vitamin d can help prevent illnesses but i'm not too sure about curing illnesses

vitamin d deficiency symptoms (http://www.vitaminddeficiencysymptoms.org)
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 20/06/2010 09:33:38
D-vitamin newsletter!  [;D] [;D] [;D]



Serum 25-hydroxyvitamin d and the incidence of acute viral respiratory tract infections in healthy adults.

Sabetta JR, Depetrillo P, Cipriani RJ, Smardin J, Burns LA, Landry ML.

Department of Medicine, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Connecticut, United States of America.

Abstract
BACKGROUND: Declining serum concentrations of 25-hydroxyvitamin D seen in the fall and winter as distance increases from the equator may be a factor in the seasonal increased prevalence of influenza and other viral infections. This study was done to determine if serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations correlated with the incidence of acute viral respiratory tract infections. METHODOLOGY/FINDINGS: In this prospective cohort study serial monthly concentrations of 25-hydroxyvitamin D were measured over the fall and winter 2009-2010 in 198 healthy adults, blinded to the nature of the substance being measured. The participants were evaluated for the development of any acute respiratory tract infections by investigators blinded to the 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations. The incidence of infection in participants with different concentrations of vitamin D was determined. One hundred ninety-five (98.5%) of the enrolled participants completed the study. Light skin pigmentation, lean body mass, and supplementation with vitamin D were found to correlate with higher concentrations of 25-hydroxyvitamin D. Concentrations of 38 ng/ml or more were associated with a significant (p<0.0001) two-fold reduction in the risk of developing acute respiratory tract infections and with a marked reduction in the percentages of days ill.
CONCLUSIONS/SIGNIFICANCE: Maintenance of a 25-hydroxyvitamin D serum concentration of 38 ng/ml or higher should significantly reduce the incidence of acute viral respiratory tract infections and the burden of illness caused thereby, at least during the fall and winter in temperate zones. The findings of the present study provide direction for and call for future interventional studies examining the efficacy of vitamin D supplementation in reducing the incidence and severity of specific viral infections, including influenza, in the general population and in subpopulations with lower 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations, such as pregnant women, dark skinned individuals, and the obese.

PLoS One. 2010 Jun 14;5(6):e11088



(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.paesionline.it%2Ffoto_italia%2FDD1004_sci_estivo_tonale.jpg&hash=423cc81d2aa4207d29c50e1b80909bc0)
http://www.paesionline.it/foto_italia/DD1004_sci_estivo_tonale.jpg
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/06/2010 11:21:02
There's an important word in that.
"Declining serum concentrations of 25-hydroxyvitamin D seen in the fall and winter as distance increases from the equator may be a factor in the seasonal increased prevalence of influenza and other viral infections".

Correlation does not imply causation.
It seems to me to be at least as likely that colds are correlated with low vitamin D levels simply because both tend to happen in Winter. In any group some people will be affected more than others by Winter.
The other obvious potential cause  for the correlation is that poor diet drops vitamin D levels and promotes infections.

Even if the correlation in this case is due to causation it still doesn't show that vitamin D kills viruses any better than chocolate cake does.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 20/06/2010 13:18:50
Hi B.C.,

May be
You are right.
But a previous post reported an RCT, the 'gold standard' in modern medicine:

Try looking at this site http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/study-vitamin-kills-cancer-cells/story?id=9904415
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi28.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc243%2Feastlmark%2F1190546ddac301f666.gif&hash=11b9386b1959f60249d497ca701482ce)
Exciting and quite promising, alanan...
...nevertheless: "In Tests, Vitamin D Shrinks Breast Cancer Cells.
Results Encouraging, But Don't Read Too Much Into Them, Says Dr. Richard Besser".

There is something new about vitamin D and influenza viruses...
a bit closer to the title of this very thread:


Randomized trial of vitamin D supplementation
 to prevent seasonal influenza A in schoolchildren.

Urashima M, Segawa T, Okazaki M, Kurihara M, Wada Y, Ida H.
Division of Molecular Epidemiology Jikei University School of Medicine Minato-ku Tokyo Japan.

BACKGROUND: To our knowledge, no rigorously designed clinical trials have evaluated the relation between vitamin D and physician-diagnosed seasonal influenza.
OBJECTIVE: We investigated the effect of vitamin D supplements on the incidence of seasonal influenza A in schoolchildren.
DESIGN: From December 2008 through March 2009, we conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial comparing vitamin D(3) supplements (1200 IU/d) with placebo in schoolchildren. The primary outcome was the incidence of influenza A, diagnosed with influenza antigen testing with a nasopharyngeal swab specimen.
RESULTS: Influenza A occurred in 18 of 167 (10.8%) children in the vitamin D(3) group compared with 31 of 167 (18.6%) children in the placebo group [relative risk (RR), 0.58; 95% CI: 0.34, 0.99; P = 0.04]. The reduction in influenza A was more prominent in children who had not been taking other vitamin D supplements (RR: 0.36; 95% CI: 0.17, 0.79; P = 0.006) and who started nursery school after age 3 y (RR: 0.36; 95% CI: 0.17, 0.78; P = 0.005). In children with a previous diagnosis of asthma, asthma attacks as a secondary outcome occurred in 2 children receiving vitamin D(3) compared with 12 children receiving placebo (RR: 0.17; 95% CI: 0.04, 0.73; P = 0.006).

CONCLUSION: This study suggests that vitamin D(3) supplementation during the winter may reduce the incidence of influenza A, especially in specific subgroups of schoolchildren.

This trial was registered at https://center.umin.ac.jp as UMIN000001373.

Am J Clin Nutr. 2010 Mar 10. [Epub ahead of print]



Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/06/2010 14:26:03
So, it does as good a job as chocolate cake.
For those people who are poorly nourished, improving their diet improves their health.
Not exactly rocket science and not evidence for vitamin D killing the virus.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 20/06/2010 16:22:41
So, it does as good a job as chocolate cake.
For those people who are poorly nourished, improving their diet improves their health.
Not exactly rocket science and not evidence for vitamin D killing the virus.

Chocolate cake has much better taste than vitamin D.
I agree, but you seem to have missed a basic point here:
Vitamin D does NOT come from your diet mostly (90-95%).
Consequently, this hormone is NOT a vitamin.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/06/2010 19:39:30
As one of those papers points out "Light skin pigmentation, lean body mass, and supplementation with vitamin D were found to correlate with higher concentrations of 25-hydroxyvitamin D." so eating the stuff raises your levels of it. It might not be a dominant route for the production of the stuff in plasma, but it's certainly measurable.

The name vitamin originally only referred to amines, ("Vital amines" in particular) so vitamins  A, C, D, E, and K are not vitamins.

No matter what you call the stuff, it doesn't kill viruses.
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: iko on 26/06/2010 17:51:21
As one of those papers points out "Light skin pigmentation, lean body mass, and supplementation with vitamin D were found to correlate with higher concentrations of 25-hydroxyvitamin D." so eating the stuff raises your levels of it. It might not be a dominant route for the production of the stuff in plasma, but it's certainly measurable.

The name vitamin originally only referred to amines, ("Vital amines" in particular) so vitamins  A, C, D, E, and K are not vitamins.

No matter what you call the stuff, it doesn't kill viruses.







Quote
Vitamin: a substance that makes you ill
 if you don't eat it.

Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
(16 Sep 1893 - 22 Oct 1986)


Hungarian-American biochemist who was awarded the 1937 Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine 'for his discoveries in connection with the biological combustion processes, with special reference to vitamin C and the catalysis of fumaric acid'.


other quotes:

Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

Research is four things: brains with which to think, eyes with which to see, machines with which to measure, and fourth, money.

(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.necksecret.com%2Fimages%2Fdr._albert_szent-gyorgyi_kdnm_vj4f.jpg&hash=e553a3cfab98cdb2bdd99b14b83f68d4)

http://www.todayinsci.com/S/SzentGyorgyi_Albert/SzentGyorgyiAlbert-Quotations.htm
http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/WG/Views/Exhibit/narrative/szeged.html
http://www.necksecret.com/images/dr._albert_szent-gyorgyi_kdnm_vj4f.jpg
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: ameliaswank on 03/07/2010 14:44:34
Vitamin D is surely an amazing vitamin with amazing benefits in it. the most exciting thing about vitamin D is that you can found it in sun rays. see how easy it is to get vitamin D in your body, countries where the sun rises for about six months are really benefited in having vitamin D and its good effects..
Title: Could vitamin D kill viruses?
Post by: Kevan Gelling on 17/07/2010 23:39:56
The European Food Safety Authority (http://www.efsa.europa.eu/) (EFSA) was set up to ensure that any claims made by a product is backed up by scientific evidence (as a result Slim Fast may have to change its name [:D])

Here is the text from a recent ruling (http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/scdocs/scdoc/1468.htm) about Vitamin D and the immune system

Quote
Summary

Following a request from the European Commission, the Panel on Dietetic Products, Nutrition and Allergies was asked to provide a scientific opinion on a list of health claims pursuant to Article 13 of Regulation (EC) No 1924/2006. This opinion addresses the scientific substantiation of health claims in relation to vitamin D and normal function of the immune system and inflammatory response, maintenance of normal muscle function and maintenance of normal cardiovascular function. The scientific substantiation is based on the information provided by the Member States in the consolidated list of Article 13 health claims and references that EFSA has received from Member States or directly from stakeholders.

The food constituent that is the subject of the health claims is vitamin D, which is a well recognised nutrient and is measurable in foods by established methods. The Panel considers that vitamin D is sufficiently characterised.

The claimed effects are normal function of the immune system and inflammatory response, maintenance of normal muscle function and maintenance of normal cardiovascular function. The target population is assumed to be general population.

The Panel concludes that a cause and effect relationship has been established between the dietary intake of vitamin D and contribution to the normal function of the immune system and healthy inflammatory response, and maintenance of normal muscle function.

The Panel considers that, in order to bear the claims, a food should be at least a source of vitamin D as per Annex to Regulation (EC) No 1924/2006. Such amounts can be easily consumed as part of a balanced diet.