Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: ron123456 on 05/06/2020 18:01:41
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The Chandra X-Ray mission's Fermi telescope indicated a gamma ray shaped p-orbital at the Milky Way's black hole extending 25,000 light years. Our Milky Way diameter is approximately 100,000 light years with a radius of approximately 50,000 light years (let's say without argument?).....If our solar system is half of that distance from the black hole (say 25,000 light years?), then in the Milky Way galaxy, would any life closer than 25,000 light years be in extreme danger by this gamma ray bubble depending on our galaxy's plane wobble? Should we then be looking outward only?
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If our solar system is half of that distance from the black hole (say 25,000 light years?), then in the Milky Way galaxy, would any life closer than 25,000 light years be in extreme danger by this gamma ray bubble depending on our galaxy's plane wobble? Should we then be looking outward only?
That would depend on several different factors. What would the gamma ray dose at those distances be? What are life's tolerances to gamma rays (this, admittedly, varies immensely from one organism to another)? Would the atmosphere be enough to shield the surface from most of those rays? I don't know enough to answer those questions, but subsurface microorganisms would probably survive pretty well. Radiotrophic fungi can survive environments with at least 500 times the normal radiation levels found at Earth's surface: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiotrophic_fungus The organisms around hydrothermal vents are shielded by the ocean, and as such should be well protected by extraterrestrial gamma ray sources.
Also, black holes in themselves are not sources of gamma rays (at least not until they are close to evaporating by Hawking radiation). So you could potentially have a small black hole orbiting within a planetary system without trouble as long as it is too far away from sources of gas or matter to form an accretion disk or jets from.
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Life is based on chemistry more then physics. What is needed for life is the liquid state of water, with water; H2O, the second most abundant molecule in the universe, behind only hydrogen; H2.
The liquid state is important to life, since it has properties that are different from the solid and gaseous states. Gases and solids are the majority phases of the universe; gas, dust and rocks. Liquid is rare by comparison. Water is unique in that it has the highest boiling point of any small molecule its size. Water allows the liquid state to appear at the warmer conditions needed to assure adequate energy for life's chemical reactions.
A gas cannot be placed under tension. it can only be under pressure. If we pull vacuum on a gas we lower the pressure but without creating tension. A solid can be placed under tension or pressure but not both at the same time, and still achieve a steady state. If we push and pull a solid it will move.
A liquid can be placed under tension and pressure and reach a steady state. For example, a glass of water open to the atmosphere will feel the atmospheric pressure plus exhibit surface tension at steady state. This unique liquid state anomaly is a critical part of the living state. The micro and macro states can conflict yet be balanced.
Liquid Water is critical to life because because of hydrogen bonding. It is not coincidence that hydrogen bonding is also critical to protein and DNA.
Hydrogen bonding has both polar and covalent bonding characteristics. The hydrogen bond can switch between these two states. A hydrogen bond can form and switch between these states without breaking the bond. The polar aspect is connected to pressure while the covalent is connected to tension. The hydrogen bond can express the liquid state physics, in situ, without any bonds breaking. It can simply switch back and forth between states, locally and globally, allowing pressure and tension to alter the local and global free energy; enthalpy, entropy and volume.
The liquid state also can create what I call the entropic force, which is the firth force of nature. However, this is only common to the liquid state. The best example is osmotic pressure. If we have two liquids separated by a membrane with one having a higher ionic concentration, the water will move between the two chambers to balances out the entropy. This will create a pressure connected to entropy, with pressure force/area; entropic force/area. The entropic force or life force interfaces the pressure-tension affects of liquid state physics, and can also be mediated by water as shown by cells.
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Below is an image of a water cluster, within liquid water, composed of 280 water molecules all hydrogen bonded together. The image shows collapsed and expanded states of the water cluster, with each state differing in S=entropy, H=enthalpy or internal energy and V=volume.
The hydrogen bonding of the cluster has both polar=pressure and covalent=tension character, with the expanded stated of the cluster having higher tension than the collapsed state. By simply going back and forth between the two states, the cluster will not only have a mechanical affect on the local environment; volume change to push or pull, it will also defines difference in free energy; S and H.
If you think of the cluster in terms of a binary switch, like in computer memory, a water cluster switch is much more advanced. It is not just on-off switch like a semiconductor. Each setting has muscle and free energy. The results is information can be transferred using the two cluster settings, with the environment also responding to the data transmission, both physically and chemically via changes in the free energy between cluster states.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.lsbu.ac.uk%2Fwater%2Fimages%2Fcluster_equilibrium_2.gif&hash=f239deea87c5e020e05a82a42e27554e)
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Puppypower, your responses aren't directly related to the subject at hand (which is about the effect that black holes and gamma rays have on the habitability of planets).
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p-orbital at the Milky Way's black hole
I assume this is a metaphor, comparing an atomic orbital to the jets from a black hole?
If we are talking metaphorically, the shape of the galaxy and the Fermi bubbles may be closer to an f-orbital?
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital#Types_of_orbitals
would any life closer than 25,000 light years be in extreme danger by this gamma ray bubble depending on our galaxy's plane wobble?
The bubbles are fairly symmetrical above and below the axis of the galaxy.
- The source is not really clear, but it suggests a jet of material coming out from the region at the center of our galaxy.
- The supermassive black hole forming SGR A* is certainly one candidate, as we we see jets coming out of the center of many galaxies. (At optical wavelengths, we can see the center of other galaxies clearer than we can see the center of our own galaxy)
- But provided the jet is aligned with the axis of our galaxy, there is little risk to life in the disk of our galaxy
The real risk comes if there is a galactic merger, and stars are thrown into the firing line of the jet.
- Or if the black holes merge, producing a radical change in the angle of the jet, so it intersects the plane of one galaxy or the other.
- Such a merger between our galaxy and Andromeda galaxy is predicted in about 5 billion years
See: https://www.space.com/fermi-bubbles-milky-way-radiation-mystery.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-shaped_radio_galaxy
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Puppypower, your responses aren't directly related to the subject at hand (which is about the effect that black holes and gamma rays have on the habitability of planets).
The point I was making is the liquid state of water, has some unique physics, that is necessary for life. This unique liquid state physics is best expressed by water and requires a certain range of temperatures and pressure to maintain the needed liquid state. The pressure is often connected to gravity and atmosphere and water depth. There may well be a gravity zone range beyond black holes that will be optimized.
As far as radiation, liquid water, which is the swiss army knife chemical of the universe, is a very effective radiation shied. It takes something like 20 feet of water to shied life from most radiation. Life could form below that radiation threshold, but it may not be able to form on the surface or become land based.
I remember as a student I had an opportunity to study at a National Lab. In my spare time I would explore and look around at all the interesting things going on. I found an indoor swimming pool that was used to store radioactive materials from a nuclear research reactor. The pool was about 20 feet deep and had a catwalk where you could walk over the pool and look down at the blue glowing materials. You could see the radiation by the way it impacted the clear water. The glow stayed within s few feet of the "hot" stuff.
If there was a blast of radiation such as by a bomb, sun or black hole, if one had time to dive down deep enough under water, you would be protected fro the radiation. Life could take advantage of deep water even in places were radiation levels are assumed to be too high on the surface for land based life.