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General Discussion & Feedback => Just Chat! => Topic started by: ron123456 on 01/03/2021 21:23:05

Title: Does electron capture release a photon or does it's electron neutrino release it
Post by: ron123456 on 01/03/2021 21:23:05
Just curious if a photon is somehow released and at what coherence length?...thx
Title: Re: Does electron capture release a photon or does it's electron neutrino release it
Post by: ron123456 on 03/03/2021 19:48:39
Did Rydberg, Lymann (UV)  and Balmer (1885) (visible) ( and Paschen) (IR) use the incorrect ground energy level (atomic number 1 (K shell)  instead of atomic number 0, if it existed) in their discussion and should they have used the nucleus as the ground energy level for release of energy? Would have electron capture been eliminated?...Thx
Title: Re: Does electron capture release a photon or does it's electron neutrino release it
Post by: evan_au on 04/03/2021 10:13:38
Quote from: OP
Does electron capture release a photon?
In electron capture, an inner electron of an atom combines with a proton to form an electron neutrino.
- This reaction does not emit a photon, so all of the energy goes into the neutrino - this neutrino has a fixed energy
- The atom recoils with a known momentum, to ensure conservation of momentum.

However, there are several ways that a photon can be emitted, after the electron capture event:
- The nucleus may be in an excited state, and this decays by emitting a gamma ray photon
- The electron capture has freed up a space in the inner shell of the atom, so outer electrons cascade down into inner shells, emitting X-Rays
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_capture

Quote from: OP
Does ....an electron neutrino release [a photon]?
Neutrinos do not participate in the electromagnetic force, so a neutrino by itself cannot produce a photon.
- However, in a neutrino detector like Ice Cube, an atomic nucleus can occasionally interact with a neutrino, depositing a large amount of momentum into the nucleus of an atom. This exceeds the speed of light in ice, emitting Cherenkov radiation, which can be detected by photomultipliers.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IceCube_Neutrino_Observatory

Quote from: ron123456
atomic number 1 instead of atomic number 0,
I assume that you are talking about electron shells, rather than "atomic number" (atomic number has to do with the nucleus)?

The energy of photons in an atomic line spectrum is proportional to (1/n2 - 1/m2), where n and m are integers, and n = 1 for the Lyman series.
- If you try to use n=0, you end up with some infinite energies, which is not what we observe.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_series#Explanation_and_derivation

Quote
used the nucleus as the ground energy level for release of energy?
In "classical" (pre-quantum) physics, the electrons are attracted to the positive nucleus by the electromagnetic force, and the electrons would have rapidly spiraled into the nucleus, leaving us with neutonium (and putting chemists out of work).

Quantum theory showed that electrons have specific energy levels, preventing the electrons from spiraling into the nucleus.
- Some of these energy levels have a finite probability that the electron will be located within the nucleus; this is what allows electron capture process to occur (via the Weak Nuclear force).
Title: Re: Does electron capture release a photon or does it's electron neutrino release it
Post by: ron123456 on 08/03/2021 19:12:27
I have to get back to this, but so interesting...thx......Right now I'm sidetracked; I just can't understand why the weakest force, (gravity), extends so far to infinity exactly like light does?....Why would someone consider a gravitational force being curved space as opposed to a force?...Why eliminate the field in this circumstance for the propagation?
Title: Re: Does electron capture release a photon or does it's electron neutrino release it
Post by: ron123456 on 08/03/2021 19:33:28
Yeah....I guess the field is preserved but why transpose to something different?
Title: Re: Does electron capture release a photon or does it's electron neutrino release it
Post by: evan_au on 08/03/2021 20:46:56
Quote from: ron123456
I just can't understand why the weakest force, (gravity), extends so far to infinity exactly like light does?
I understand that it has to do with the mass of the force carrier (this used to be called the rest-mass).
- Electromagnetism is carried by photons, which have zero (rest) mass and infinite lifetime. The electromagnetic field has infinite range (but gets weaker with distance)
- Gravity is carried by (hypothetical, but strongly expected) gravitons, which have zero (rest) mass and infinite lifetime. The gravitational field has infinite range (but gets weaker with distance)
- The Strong Nuclear Force is carried by gluons, which have zero (rest) mass. The Strong Nuclear Force has infinite range, but does not get weaker with distance. If you try to pull quarks apart, it generates new particles.
- The Weak Nuclear Force is carried by W & Z Bosons, which have non-zero (rest) mass around 90 GeV/c2, and a lifetime around 10-24 seconds. The Weak Nuclear force has a range smaller than the diameter of a proton.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction#Overview_of_the_fundamental_interactions

Quote
Why would someone consider a gravitational force being curved space as opposed to a force?
As a starter, gravitational force is not just "curved space", it is "curved spacetime".

If gravitation were just a force, it could account for the elliptical orbits of the planets, but it could not account for the fact that the long access of Mercury's orbit precesses (moves) in space.
- This latter effect was known to be an error in Newton's gravity
- Einstein's General Relativity accounted for it, because the gravitational field of the Sun also affects time, and so time is not a constant rate (as assumed by Newton), but slows down as you enter a gravitational "well", and speeds up as you move out of the gravitational well (as seen by a distant observer).
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity#Perihelion_precession_of_Mercury
Title: Re: Does electron capture release a photon or does it's electron neutrino release it
Post by: ron123456 on 19/03/2021 16:44:05
Again, thank you for the enlightenment.....have to dwell more on Mercury's precession and the strong force before a proper statement...