The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Member Map
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. Non Life Sciences
  3. Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology
  4. Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.

  • 31 Replies
  • 4412 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline alright1234 (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 163
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« on: 07/05/2019 07:02:08 »
Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the continuity of Maxwell's electromagnetic field that forms the coherency of Maxwell's EM light wave, and, can an expanding em field represent Lenard's particle structure of light.
Logged
 



Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 14201
  • Activity:
    99.5%
  • Thanked: 1077 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #1 on: 07/05/2019 08:00:07 »
Why set the clock back 100 years and consider the raving of a dead Nazi to be of any importance in physics? Or did a man from Harvard introduce you to it?
« Last Edit: 07/05/2019 08:44:51 by alancalverd »
Logged
helping to stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline evan_au

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 10234
  • Activity:
    37.5%
  • Thanked: 1227 times
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #2 on: 07/05/2019 12:07:36 »
Lenard made observations on the photoelectric effect in 1902.
Einstein explained it in 1905 - and got a Nobel prize for it.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80%93particle_duality#Photoelectric_effect

Wikipedia tries to summarise this photoelectric duality like this:
Quote from: Wikipedia
Electromagnetic radiation propagates following linear wave equations, but can only be emitted or absorbed as discrete elements, thus acting as a wave and a particle simultaneously.
Logged
 

Offline alright1234 (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 163
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #3 on: 07/05/2019 19:13:18 »
Quote from: evan_au on 07/05/2019 12:07:36
Lenard made observations on the photoelectric effect in 1902.
Einstein explained it in 1905 - and got a Nobel prize for it.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80%93particle_duality#Photoelectric_effect

Wikipedia tries to summarise this photoelectric duality like this:
Quote from: Wikipedia
Electromagnetic radiation propagates following linear wave equations, but can only be emitted or absorbed as discrete elements, thus acting as a wave and a particle simultaneously.

Is an electromagnetic field based on Faraday's induction effect expanding?
Logged
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 27186
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 908 times
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #4 on: 07/05/2019 19:16:55 »
Quote from: alright1234 on 07/05/2019 07:02:08
Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the continuity of Maxwell's electromagnetic field that forms the coherency of Maxwell's EM light wave,
Any form of quantisation will mess up Maxwell's equations.
Quote from: alright1234 on 07/05/2019 07:02:08
can an expanding em field represent Lenard's particle structure of light.
Who cares?
We have models for the propagation of EM radiation, and for the interaction with matter.
They work very well.
It's unrealistic to suppose that a long dead theory from a long dead theorist would do better.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 



Offline alright1234 (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 163
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #5 on: 07/05/2019 19:23:25 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 07/05/2019 19:16:55
Quote from: alright1234 on 07/05/2019 07:02:08
Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the continuity of Maxwell's electromagnetic field that forms the coherency of Maxwell's EM light wave,
Any form of quantisation will mess up Maxwell's equations.
Quote from: alright1234 on 07/05/2019 07:02:08
can an expanding em field represent Lenard's particle structure of light.
Who cares?
We have models for the propagation of EM radiation, and for the interaction with matter.
They work very well.
It's unrealistic to suppose that a long dead theory from a long dead theorist would do better.

I did not ask you if anyone cared. I asked you ---can an expanding em field represent Lenard's particle structure of light.
Logged
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 27186
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 908 times
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #6 on: 07/05/2019 19:32:57 »
Yes.
But it may not represent it accurately.
So who cares?
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline alright1234 (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 163
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #7 on: 07/05/2019 20:26:39 »
Contradiction
Logged
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 27186
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 908 times
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #8 on: 07/05/2019 20:38:47 »
Quote from: alright1234 on 07/05/2019 20:26:39
Contradiction
Yes; you are good at that.
So what?
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 



Offline alright1234 (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 163
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #9 on: 07/05/2019 20:51:52 »
Can an expanding em field represent a particle structure? An expanding electromagnetic field in mutually exclusive to a particle structure which negative all of theoretical physics that is based on the gauge.

« Last Edit: 07/05/2019 21:00:15 by alright1234 »
Logged
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 27186
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 908 times
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #10 on: 07/05/2019 21:07:15 »
Quote from: alright1234 on 07/05/2019 20:51:52
Can an expanding em field represent a particle structure?
Yes
Here is a bad representation of a hydrogen atom

  O   .

The "O" is the nucleus and the "." is the electron.

That representation is carried to your eyes from the screen by an expanding em field- specifically, light

Did you not realise what question you were asking?
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline alright1234 (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 163
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #11 on: 07/05/2019 21:39:44 »
an expanding electromagnetic field cannot maintain a particle structure of Einstein's electromagnetic photon since, as an electromagnetic field propagates, an electromagnetic field expands. The size of an electromagnetic photon would increase (expand), during propagation, which would eliminate the particle structure of Einstein's electromagnetic photon. A particle structure is incompatible with an expanding electromagnetic field yet Einstein is supporting Planck's quantization of Maxwell's electromagnetic field that is the foundation of the wave-particle duality theory of light.
Logged
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 7104
  • Activity:
    6%
  • Thanked: 404 times
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #12 on: 07/05/2019 21:59:57 »
Quote from: alright1234 on 07/05/2019 21:39:44
an expanding electromagnetic field cannot maintain a particle structure of Einstein's electromagnetic photon since, as an electromagnetic field propagates, an electromagnetic field expands. The size of an electromagnetic photon would increase (expand), during propagation, which would eliminate the particle structure of Einstein's electromagnetic photon. A particle structure is incompatible with an expanding electromagnetic field yet Einstein is supporting Planck's quantization of Maxwell's electromagnetic field that is the foundation of the wave-particle duality theory of light.

Just because a gas expands in a vacuum doesn't mean that the atoms which make up the gas expand as well. Same thing with photons and electromagnetic radiation.
Logged
 



Offline alright1234 (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 163
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #13 on: 07/05/2019 22:07:21 »
Maxwell's electromagnetic field expands or radio waves would not dimension in intensity.
Logged
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 7104
  • Activity:
    6%
  • Thanked: 404 times
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #14 on: 07/05/2019 22:11:54 »
Quote from: alright1234 on 07/05/2019 22:07:21
Maxwell's electromagnetic field expands or radio waves would not dimension in intensity.

What does "would not dimension in intensity" mean?

Nobody said that electromagnetic fields don't expand. But if you assume that photons must expand as well, then that is a non-sequitur. Gas atoms don't expand just because a gas expands. The distance between the atoms just increases. Same thing with photons being emitted from a light bulb or some similar emitter of EM radiation. The photons get further apart from each other, but that's all.
Logged
 

Offline alright1234 (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 163
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #15 on: 07/05/2019 22:18:08 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 07/05/2019 22:11:54
Quote from: alright1234 on 07/05/2019 22:07:21
Maxwell's electromagnetic field expands or radio waves would not dimension in intensity.

What does "would not dimension in intensity" mean?

Nobody said that electromagnetic fields don't expand. But if you assume that photons must expand as well, then that is a non-sequitur. Gas atoms don't expand just because a gas expands. The distance between the atoms just increases. Same thing with photons being emitted from a light bulb or some similar emitter of EM radiation. The photons get further apart from each other, but that's all.

Well, if a photon is composed of an em field than it would have to expand to and if you say that a gas molecule is composed of an em field (gauge) then the gas molecule would also expand that would you are dealing with.
« Last Edit: 07/05/2019 22:20:22 by alright1234 »
Logged
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 7104
  • Activity:
    6%
  • Thanked: 404 times
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #16 on: 07/05/2019 22:23:16 »
Quote from: alright1234 on 07/05/2019 22:18:08
Well, if a photon is composed of an em field than it would have to expand

No it wouldn't. The expansion of the field is a bulk behavior of all of the photons collectively, not individual photons.
Logged
 



Offline alright1234 (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 163
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #17 on: 07/05/2019 22:33:42 »
An electromagnetic photon depict a particle structure.
Logged
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 7104
  • Activity:
    6%
  • Thanked: 404 times
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #18 on: 07/05/2019 22:35:23 »
Quote from: alright1234 on 07/05/2019 22:33:42
An electromagnetic photon depict a particle structure.

Sometimes. Sometimes they act as waves instead.
Logged
 

Offline alright1234 (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 163
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Does Lenard's particle structure of light negate the coherency of a light wave.
« Reply #19 on: 08/05/2019 00:11:23 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 07/05/2019 22:35:23
Quote from: alright1234 on 07/05/2019 22:33:42
An electromagnetic photon depict a particle structure.

Sometimes. Sometimes they act as waves instead.

An electromagnetic photon can never depict a particle structure. NEVER.
Logged
 



  • Print
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 

Similar topics (5)

Brain-wave and brain states

Started by flyingHBoard Physiology & Medicine

Replies: 2
Views: 6113
Last post 02/08/2006 13:58:36
by socratus
Can you "ride" a gravitational wave?

Started by cowlinatorBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 21
Views: 10073
Last post 06/11/2018 15:45:29
by Professor Mega-Mind
How to convert LDL cholesterol concentration to LDL particle concentration?

Started by scientizschtBoard Physiology & Medicine

Replies: 1
Views: 1160
Last post 26/06/2020 11:18:52
by Bored chemist
How small can a gamma wave, or gamma knife beam be collimated.?

Started by Nicholas LeeBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 1
Views: 3060
Last post 09/08/2016 05:26:48
by Atomic-S
Has anyone tested any better quality dielectric within a similar cavity, and has anyone tested a more energetic EM wave or is it known that this phenomenon is only observed with microwaves?

Started by thedocBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 0
Views: 2248
Last post 30/08/2016 12:53:01
by thedoc
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.19 seconds with 77 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.