Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Plant Sciences, Zoology & Evolution => Topic started by: nicephotog on 10/02/2014 21:47:05
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Thread split off from "Dog greetings (http://Dog greetings)" - Moderator.
WARNING! chocolate kills dogs and it does not require much!!!
It is an unpleasant death and even if they do survive it, it is not dissimilar to surviving "distemper", severely brain damaged alike a stroke victim!!!
If you own a dog, beware of your children if they have any chocolate, don't have any if you don't have children !!!
Note: White chocolate kills too it simply takes more of it.
This guy was around 80cm tall to the hip at 5 1/2 months, he was around the size and weight of a full grown heeler when i got him at 3 months.
In the video i require to get all his over-energy out of his system for a few minutes when i get back from being away or he'd simply flatten me full stop!!!
Greeting: "Avi" may he rest in piece , whom died from a mishap of me not getting sleep for around 3 days and had nothing could be done for him because he was simply too big and unhandleable(basically too dangerous) by anyone else, a sort of freak mishap.
Another note: keeping a dog in Australia is immensely difficult because the laws now are immensely strict and costly, recently these idiots (such as the RSPCA whom care for dogs feelings but do not credibly understand animals as in a context more like animal keeping law not even veterinary) have now started on work dog breeds regardless of them being herding or hunting(is a professional pest control action on farms).
The method by which animals are impounded and the obligatory result from it is killing off grand champion and pure breeds inclusively.
"Brunhilda" at 4 1/2 months:
Greeting:
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Before I heard the chocolate thing, I'm sure I gave my dog lots of chocolate, or at least cookies or brownies. It didn't seem to effect him. I stopped doing it just in case, but I'm still a bit skeptical.
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Ok, I thought I'd look up the reason why chocolate is "bad" for a dog.
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/02/why-chocolate-is-bad-for-dogs/
http://www.hillspet.com/dog-care/is-chocolate-bad-for-dogs.html
Theobromine is the chocolate equivalent to caffeine. Humans metabolize it quickly, and it has rather mild effects. Dogs will also metabolize or excrete it, but with a slower process, with a half-life of about 17 hours. Theobromine stimulates the central nervous system, cardiovascular system, and causes a slightly increases blood pressure.
So, it is dose/weight dependent, and depends on the concentration of cocoa, and perhaps the age of the dog.
For milk chocolate, the toxic dose is about 1 ounce per pound of body weight. So, toxic dose of milk chocolate for a 16 lb dog would be about a pound of milk chocolate, a 80 lb dog could eat 5 pounds of milk chocolate.
Dark chocolate is about 1/3 as much (1/3 lb for the 16 lb dog, or just under 2 lbs for the 80 lb dog).
Cocoa Powder is about 1/16 ounce per pound of dog, or 1 oz for the 16 lb dog, or 5 ounces for the 80 lb dog.
As far as white chocolate, it would take about 200 lbs of white chocolate to be toxic for the 16 lb dog. I think you'd have other problems with that one.
Anyway, a few chocolate chips are unlikely to harm your dog.
The problems would occur if the dog was to eat a whole box of chocolates, or a whole cake.
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Before I heard the chocolate thing, I'm sure I gave my dog lots of chocolate, or at least cookies or brownies. It didn't seem to effect him. I stopped doing it just in case, but I'm still a bit skeptical.
National Geographic
Chocolate Chart
..."If your chocolate Lab loves to eat chocolates, don't give in! Learn how much of each kind of chocolate can harm your best friend."...
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2007/10/pets/chocolate-chart-interactive
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The biological breakdown pathways for theobromine (in chocolate) and caffeine (in coffee/tea) are shown here:
http://www.kegg.jp/kegg-bin/show_pathway?rn00232
Each of the enzymes and genes, plus its metabolites are available on a clickable diagram.
If dogs and cats lack some of these enzymes (ie lack the genes which produce these enzymes), then theobromine levels could become much higher in the bloodstream, and produce the toxic effects described in previous posts.
Presumably, the same effect could occur in humans, if medication and/or mutations blocked the breakdown of these methyl xanthines.
For example, the medication allopurinol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allopurinol) inhibits xanthine oxidase (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanthine_oxidase) (enzyme 1.17.3.2), appearing in several of the pathways in the metabolism of theobromine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine) & caffeine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine).
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I as many others have seen the effect of dogs eating chocolate first hand , and it starts with convulsion as the symptom.
With wolves (Dingo or Canis Lupus), it tends to be a listful ill laziness as the symptom at worst, Lupines have a much greater ability to handle it but is not considered any more sensible for them than familiaris.
cheryl j: Before I heard the chocolate thing, I'm sure I gave my dog lots of chocolate, or at least cookies or brownies. It didn't seem to effect him. I stopped doing it just in case, but I'm still a bit skeptical.
If the creature you have is a familiaris it may have simply survived it much like a wolf(e.g. done much better than most dogs! - pure luck).
Another interesting feature of pets surviving things their owner is not aware of, is,
the fact they are often inside all day or in the backyard for hours, not moving and nobody tried to!
Dogs tend to appear tired when ill, they do not show much sine of discomfort or pain, but when ill,
they often bite which can seriously save their life if you understand its context.
Other discomfort biting i call a "boss bite" because on a farm work dogs(herding gang) often deliver it on the "boss"(human person) for not coming down and checking a raucous in the middle of the night(particularly on a chain system not a pen),insisting moving them if they have been awake all night(they will often stand up stare around and turn around in a circle then sit back down and curl up ignoring you) , forgetting to feed them or running out of water, or tethering them for too long(or in the pen too long). (some are applicable with pets).
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It is known (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2014222/) that smokers break down theobromine around a third faster than non-smokers (theobromine is the active ingredient in chocolate).
Smoking apparently boosts the production of enzymes to break down this ring-based molecule.
Since a variety of ring-based chemicals are produced in combustion of both tobacco and wood, is it possible that humanity's long fascination with fire has prepared us with the genetic machinery necessary to deal with ring-based molecules like theobromine?
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It is known (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2014222/) that smokers break down theobromine around a third faster than non-smokers (theobromine is the active ingredient in chocolate).
Smoking apparently boosts the production of enzymes to break down this ring-based molecule.
Since a variety of ring-based chemicals are produced in combustion of both tobacco and wood, is it possible that humanity's long fascination with fire has prepared us with the genetic machinery necessary to deal with ring-based molecules like theobromine?
It's a whole lot more likely that we can digest the toxic chemicals in plants better than dogs can because:
1 We eat plants
2 Dogs don't
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Bored chemist: It's a whole lot more likely that we can digest the toxic chemicals in plants better than dogs can because:
1 We eat plants
2 Dogs don't
I remember this about amylase and it being considered starkly different betwixt wolves and dogs. Dogs eat plants, Wolves are considered to have a small quantity of Omnivorousness.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=46715.msg404055#msg404055
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chocolate kills dogs and it does not require much!!!
It is an unpleasant death and even if they do survive it, it is not dissimilar to surviving "distemper", severely brain damaged alike a stroke victim!!!
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If you own a dog, beware of your children if they have any chocolate, don't have any if you don't have children
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WARNING! chocolate kills dogs and it does not require much!!!
Thank you OP for reminding us all it is very true chocolate is very bad if not lethal to dogs. It is the toxicity that kills.
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As evan has already said, theobromine is just a stimulant in the same family as caffeine. Dogs livers don't break it down quickly and they get overstimulated and overheat and can have convulsions. They can eat a little bit, but best not to give them a taste for it.
Fun fact: When I had swine flu I had an awful cough. I ate half of a dark chocolate bar, and my cough STOPPED for about 2 hours or so. Theobromine suppresses the vagus nerve which causes coughing. Doesn't cure the cough in any way, but you stop coughing for a bit.