1. So... according to various online sources, Quantum Tunneling can happen at any random time to any collection of particles across short or even huge distances. But like, if that's really the case, why doesn't happen more frequently in the macroscopic world?The huge distances are improbable, so it is rarely measured when it happens. The short distances happen all the time. All electronics and even your thought processes depend on it.
Like, Quantum Tunneling apparently happens all the time, hundreds and hundreds of time in the Sun during it's nuclear fusion energy generating process, but what about the Sun is so particularly special that it happens THAT much?It happens all the time everywhere. Perhaps there is a process in the sun that depends on it, so it gets good press there. But in happens in your pencil as well, which doesn't result in a noticeable difference so nobody writes articles about that.
Are quantum mechanical effects like Quantum Tunneling more likely to take place in high-energy environments like the Sun's core?I don't think it is considered tunneling unless there is some potential barrier that ends up getting crossed. So maybe in the pencil, the same effects are going on (essentially teleporting), but sans barrier, it's just probabilistic brownian motion and not officially considered tunneling. In light of that, it is more likely to take place where such barriers of potential exist to cross. It doesn't seem to go to a place of higher potential, so your chair (below) isn't going to tunnel up onto the table like it does in the poltergeist movie.
2. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, a macroscopic object like a table or a chair undergoes Quantum Tunneling and essentially teleports from one location to another while I'm still looking at it. What would that look like?Straight out of Douglas Adams books and his improbability drive. It would look exactly like it was teleported: now it's here, now it's there. The distance is insanely improbable even for a small particle. To have every particle in the chair do it that distance, and all at the exact same time is improbable to more zeroes that I can express.
would the object just pop right out of and then immediately back into existence in the blink of an eye? Would there be some flashy-looking sparkles or a poof of smoke like in movies and TV shows? Would there be some kind of distortion effect that would hurt my eyes?If only the chair did it, there would be a pop when air filled the place where the chair used to be. I know, I actually did the experiment once, with an egg. One wonders what happens to the air and dust that was already at the new location for the chair.
doesn't the act of them tunneling from one region of space to another in an instant all on their own kind of break several conservation laws?It seems to, yes. The chair moving say a cm to the left seems to violate the conservation of the center of gravity of a system with no force acting on it. This is true of even a single particle, so more is going on than just this simplistic view. Tunneling seems to occur always from a higher potential to a lower one, so there's already an external force of sorts making it want to go that way, held in check only by the barrier. So the chair maybe can teleport to downstairs despite the energy barrier (the floor) being in the way. But it isn't going to just move left a cm.
If a macroscopic object disappeared right in front of my eyes and then repapered 20 feet in the air, wouldn't that break the law of conservation of momentum?Not if still stationary up there. You did break conservation of energy by doing that. My chair going downstairs also does. Where did its potential energy go when it did that? At least it didn't create new energy.
Is Quantum Tunneling NOT considered to be a Thermodynamic Process? If so, could it theoretically combat the evilness of entropy and save the Universe from heat death (given enough time of course)?Nope. The entropy of the universe goes up oodles of orders of magnitude faster than tunneling events can undo it.
4. Like I said earlier, Quantum Tunneling apparently takes place all the time in the Sun's core during the conversion of Hydrogen to HeliumThat's a complex process involving many steps. I'm quite aware of two ways to do it (proton-proton reactions and CNO catalyst reactions), but not aware of which of the steps in each method require tunneling.
HOW do we know this?The quantum gearheads have figured it out. It's apparently impossible by normal means since insurmountable barriers (probably put up by the strong force) cannot be classically crossed.
Wait, is that how radio waves work?No. Radio waves is light moving at c, not a particle tunneling through a barrier, same as say light getting to us from another star.
Aren't pencils made out of billions of molecules and such? If they can undergo Quantum Tunneling, doesn't that mean there's a non-zero chance that they could just someday disappear and reappear right before my very eyes? Yeah, the odds of me winning the lottery 700 times in a row is greater than that happening, but in theory it's possible, right?Same as the chair, yes. It's got to go somewhere, but not necessarily all to the same place. Maybe the pencil will just reverse direction, but not the words printed on it. Maybe only the words change. Imagine a pencil that, by pure chance, gives the answers to the test you're taking with it, but reverts to "Bob's pencil #2" whenever the prof gets suspicious and tries to figure out what you're doing. It says unkind things about him as soon as he turns his back. In fact, it says the unkind things all the time, but only on the side away from him.
Fascinating. I wonder though, what exactly constitutes as a potential barrier in this regard?Usually an electromagnetic potential greater than the energy of the (typically) electron. Remember that circuits can be modeled with water and pipes and such? Such a barrier is like the walls of the canal which are higher than the pressure of the water can cross, but nevertheless it gets wet outside the wall. That's tunneling.
"Straight out of Douglas Adams books and his improbability drive."It's from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The device generated an improbability field which was first used to at parties to simultaneously teleport all the particles of the undergarments of the hostess half a meter to the left, which helped get the party going. It was later pressed into service more practically as a spaceship drive.
Haven't read that book so I looked up a gif on Google Images and I gotta say, it looks far flashier than I originally thought it was gonna be.
Just sorta curious. HOW improbable is it that my hypothetical scenario would actually take place. Are we talking like, more zeros than terajoules of energy produced by the Sun in an entire year or something (with like a 1 at the end of it?)?Terajoules is a paltry 12 zeros of joules. I have no idea. Calculate the probability of the particle moving a distance X, and then the probability of the direction of that distance being exactly Y and at exactly time T. You've already got an awful lot of zeros. Now take the number of particles in your chair and raise it to the power of the big number you got just above.
Hey just curious, if you had a superpower that involved causing macroscopic objects to Quantum Tunnel away from the area at will, what would be the largest object you could make disappear and then immediately reappear without worrying about death via void filling air currents? Also, did this story actually happen, cause it honestly sounds hilarious.If I had a superpower, the limit of the size and consequences of exercising the power would be exactly the amount needed to make the plot interesting. Hence the Enterprise running out of fuel only when the plot demanded it.
So... even if a macroscopic object hypothetically did Quantum Tunnel in a way that matches my description, it would never do so in a way that violated gravity or the many established conservation laws. Is that right? Did I say that correctly?You said it fine, and I don't know the rules. A single particle 'teleporting' seems to violate certain conservation laws, so one wonders if there has to be a counter-reaction somewhere to compensate. Sure, the chair moves a meter to the left, but also the trash can empties itself all over the kitchen floor to the right. Sigh...
An object gains more potential energy the higher up and away from gravity it goes, but who or whatever gets that object up from the ground looses energy in the process, so if a macroscopic object DID Quantum Tunnel above the ground, would it just float there forever until something acts on it again?It falls if not sitting on something. If it gained classical potential energy by moving up a few meters, one really has to figure out where that energy came from. I don't know, and if it comes from nowhere, then the scenario is probably more than just insanely improbable.
So... Quantum Tunneling IS theoretically capable of violating the second law of thermodynamics?Any process is. If I kick a pile of blocks, there's a chance they all land in a nice neat Parthenon. The kick isn't even necessary. It's all just really improbable. The 2nd law is all about statistics, which can always be locally violated.
The Strong Force? As in, the Strong Nuclear Force that confines quarks into hadron particles like protons and neutrons and then binds them together to create atomic nuclei? It has the ability to create potential barriers as well? I did not know that.All the forces can create potential barriers. Gravitational potential barrier keeps the water in my mug. I don't know where tunneling comes into play with the generation of Helium in the sun, so I'm guessing as to what the barriers are.
Fascinating. I wonder though, what exactly constitutes as a potential barrier in this regard?Just about anything. Quantum mechanics describes a situation where there is a wave function, usually written Ψ and a "potential" usually written V. The potential is just a function of position and time. If you like mathematics V = V(x,t). That's all there is to it. The potential is what will create your barrier.
hundreds and hundreds of time in the SunThis possibly refers to the reaction proton + proton = deuterium + positron + neutrino (+ energy)
electronics...how radio waves work?Most modern semiconductors are based on Field-Effect Transistors (FETs), which have an electrostatic barrier produced by the Gate terminal, blocking electrons or holes from traveling between Source and Drain terminals.
pencilsPencils contain graphite (carbon) and wood (which also contains carbon).
what exactly constitutes as a potential barrier?It can be any force - examples above have been an electrostatic barrier, the strong nuclear force or weak nuclear force.
So it's kinda like the whole "Heat only moves from hot to cold" thing? The origin point of whatever is about to Quantum Tunnel needs to be in a state of higher energy than the end point? Is this right?Well I'm not Halc but I'll offer this answer:
So it's kinda like the whole "Heat only moves from hot to cold" thing?Oddly enough, yes it is very much like that. Since that law of thermodynamics can be regarded as just a statistical law anyway.
I'm far to jaded from college homework to do any serious mathematics atm. The point still stands though, right? It's unimaginably unlikely to actually happen in our world, but still not quite impossible.Yes. That is the general idea.
So it's kinda like the whole "Heat only moves from hot to cold" thing? The origin point of whatever is about to Quantum Tunnel needs to be in a state of higher energy than the end point? Is this right?Sorry, I haven’t had time to read through all the answers you’ve been given, but this is wrong. The energy of the particle is the same on both sides of the barrier, it doesn’t move from higher energy to lower energy. What is different is the wave function which defines the probability of the particle being in a particular location.
Also, if the device was used in the story to teleport the undergarments of the victim a smidge to the left, would the wearers move as well?You need to impart energy to the object, the ‘victim’ is heavier than the undergarments, but even flimsy lace panties would be too heavy to teleport. I find the best way to impart the necessary energy is a smooth downward motion, I recommend you try it.
I'm far to jaded from college homework to do any serious mathematics atm. The point still stands though, right? It's unimaginably unlikely to actually happen in our world, but still not quite impossible.So unimaginably low that it is impossible - subject to comment above!.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling#The_tunneling_problemIf the barrier energy is increased to 40, will there be a portion of the wave packet passes through the barrier?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/E14-V20-B1.gif/330px-E14-V20-B1.gif)
A simulation of a wave packet incident on a potential barrier. In relative units, the barrier energy is 20, greater than the mean wave packet energy of 14. A portion of the wave packet passes through the barrier.
So it's kinda like the whole "Heat only moves from hot to cold" thing? The origin point of whatever is about to Quantum Tunnel needs to be in a state of higher energy than the end point? Is this right?However, Halc was always talking about the potential when he first discussed the situation. In classical mechanics (not qunatum mechanics) the potential energy is only one contribution to the total energy of the particle.
If the barrier energy is increased to 40, will there be a portion of the wave packet passes through the barrier?Yes. (In line with the previous post, it's the barriers potential you are talking about and not the energy of the particle). The transmitted wave packet will have a smaller amplitude.
Yes. (In line with the previous post, it's the barriers potential you are talking about and not the energy of the particle). The transmitted wave packet will have a smaller amplitude.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu%2Fhbase%2Fquantum%2Fimgqua%2Fbarr.gif&hash=873722aea2fe8cdd792375f41ab00b04)I think we can only compare two parameters if they have the same dimension. You can't say that 1 Volt is bigger than 1 Joule meaningfully.
According to classical physics, a particle of energy E less than the height U0 of a barrier could not penetrate - the region inside the barrier is classically forbidden.
If you state it as barrier potential, it's unclear what the dimension is.Sadly this terminology is used in the literature. The "potential" is shown on the diagram in units of energy (for example Joules not Volts). So it is the potential energy that the particle would have if it was physically located there.
This is going to get difficult for Aeris (or anyone else) to make sense of.Unfortunately the nature of discussion vs structured textbook or lecture, unpicking a thread can be hard work.
Aeris was the only one to say "Energy" but most of us knew that they were talking only about the potential.Thanks for confirming that Aeris had misunderstood. I didn't have time to read the whole thread as I'm working on new course at the moment. My concern was that Aeris seemed to be thinking that energy was lost or that it was necessary for the particle to 'roll downhill'
Colin2B has spoken about the (total) Energy, E, of the particle.
Colin2B has commented that the (total) Energy, E, of the particle remains constant on both sides of the barrier.Agreed. Problem is Aeris is dipping in rather than taking the trouble follow up and understand what has been said and he lacks any real background.
E.S. agrees with that and would actually strengthen it: The Energy remains constant wherever the particle is found. Even if you found it inside the barrier it would still hold.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/barr.htmlYes, very useful. I regularly recommend it to my students, with the proviso that they work out longhand first and use this to check.
Is actually a very useful link. (It was found by Colin2B and used in his earlier post). It offers an online calculator to determine transmission coefficients when a particle approaches a barrier of given height and width.
Yes, use same units, but fortunately the calculator contains a conversion function so enter whichever is convenient for you.
I think we can only compare two parameters if they have the same dimension. You can't say that 1 Volt is bigger than 1 Joule meaningfully.
If you state it as barrier potential, it's unclear what the dimension is.
Let's say, hypothetically speaking, a macroscopic object like a table or a chair undergoes Quantum Tunneling and essentially teleports from one location to another while I'm still looking at it. What would that look like? would the object just pop right out of and then immediately back into existence in the blink of an eye?
In the animation description, it's literally stated that the compared parameter is the energy of the barrier and the mean of wave packet energy. I'm curious what should we interpret these things :Quotehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling#The_tunneling_problemIf the barrier energy is increased to 40, will there be a portion of the wave packet passes through the barrier?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/E14-V20-B1.gif/330px-E14-V20-B1.gif)
A simulation of a wave packet incident on a potential barrier. In relative units, the barrier energy is 20, greater than the mean wave packet energy of 14. A portion of the wave packet passes through the barrier.
Quantum tunneling isn't confined to the sun, it happens in radioactive decay, I'm not sure off-hand whether all radioactive decay, but certainly where alpha particles are released.I think Halc and evan_au mentioned that earlier. Evan_au mentioned fusion H + H --> He (possibly via heavy hydrogen first) which I think is going to be the more important aspect of what is going on in the sun. Alpha decay is a great example of quantum tunneling but it's only relevant for massive nuceli not the little fellows like Hydrogen in the sun.
I'm curious what should we interpret these things :The best I can find is evanescent wave coupling.
1. What kind of experiment is best represented by this animation.
1. What kind of experiment is best represented by this animation.I would imagine the animation was obtained purely on calculation from the Schrodinger wave equation and isn't based on any experiment.
2. The amplitude of the wave packet.Basically higher amplitude represents an increased probability of finding the particle there. The probability of finding a particle at a given place and time is proportional to the SQUARE of the magnitude of the wave function, ψ. It's conventional to just multiply the amplitude by a constant so as to "normalise" the wave function. So there's nothing really special about the amplitude, it doesn't represent how much Energy the particle had or anything like that. It's been deliberately scaled up or down to "normalise" the wave function.
3. The distinction between the real part and imaginary part of the wave function (psi).Surface level answer: Not much.
4. The 90 degrees phase difference between the real part and imaginary part of the wave function (psi).Provided the potential V is just a function of position and doesn't vary with time then you get solutions to Schrodingers wave equation that are separable or break into two easy parts: A time dependant component T(t) and a space dependant component φ(x). The over-all wave function is the product of the two ψ(x,t) = T(t) . φ(x). The thing that makes the wave function look like it waves up and down as time passes is of course the time dependant component T(t).
5. The difference between positive phase and negative phase of the wave function (psi).... see comments above... you can rotate the wave function so that you have total freedom to decide if the real or imaginary part is considered to be leading the other one.
6. The number of waves in the wave packet.See details in the Wikipedia page or similar information about "generalised wave packets". See Page 38 of Quantum Mechanics by Franz Schwabl, if by any chance you had the same book as the one I was reading.
I would imagine the animation was obtained purely on calculation from the Schrodinger wave equation and isn't based on any experiment.The follow up questions are then:
Is the animation a correct representation of Schrodinger wave equation?No. Only of one one consequence of the wave equation (tunneling through a square walled barrier).
What does the animation try to achieve? Does it simplify the process, e.g. by removing distracting parameters, just like ignoring air resistance to calculate the trajectory of a cannon ball?It shows how a simple wave packet evolves when it is incident on a barrier. It's animated so that temporal changes are shown in real time not in some static graph of something vs. time.
Does it act as analogy by replacing an abstract concept with a more familiar concept, like analogy of electrical current using water flow?No, it's still fairly abstract. It's not an attempt to explain something in some different way. It's more like just drawing a graph to show a function like y= x2 (because you could use words to describe the behaviour of y=x2 but drawing a graph is a better way to show it). This graph is animated so the values can be shown changing in real time. The Real and Imaginary part of the wave function shown are the values you get from the solution of the Schrodinger wave equation with that potential. (Don't get me wrong, I didn't make the animation. Overall it looks right and matches diagrams in books but this one is animated so it moves. I haven't checked any values to be honest. They might have deliberately fudged a few values up or down a bit to make the animation a bit smoother or some other thing).
Does it help us to make a correct prediction of an experimental result?Well, it helped me and I would have thought it's useful for other people. If it helps a person understand then they are much more likely to use the theory correctly. You might be confusing "the animation" with the general theory, the animation isn't the theory it's just one graphical representation of one set of results for one situation. It's representative of what happens in similar situations but that is all.
AFAIK, even Schrodinger disagreed with Max Born on how to interpret the value of ψ.This is true. Quantum mechanics is bizarre and it's frequently said that no one understands it. The Quantum tunnelling effect is just something you get by doing the calculations and seeing what the consequences will be. It's not necessary to understand what ψ represents on some deeper level, or why the wave-function collapse happens, or any of the mysteries and controversies that are frequently attributed to QM. Quantum tunneling just requires you to accept the axioms of QM and calculate.
The best I can find is evanescent wave coupling.I can see your interested in performing experiments. I've now spent some time trying to find an experiment that might be achievable at home with limited equipment.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_field
I've made my own experiment demonstrating this using microwave frequency a few years ago.