Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => COVID-19 => Topic started by: set fair on 05/08/2022 19:52:22
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See from 4 minutes in to 5 minutes in deaths within 28 days of a positive covid test are high, higher than for instance during the Delta wave. But deaths with covid on he death certificate are up but not nearly so much - below Delta levels (in the UK).
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus excess mortality is also higher, now, than during the BA.2 wave but "covid" deaths lower for BA.5 compared to BA.2. Excess mortality looked like it was lagging behind covid deaths during BA.2, but I may be reading more than is justifiable into the graphs in this last instance.
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I'm unable to Understand your Query.
Is Covid finding new ways to kill?
Are you referring or pointing out that post vaccination deaths are increasing?
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No - I didn't mention vaccinations. What I'm saying is - the fact that deaths within 28 days of a positive test are rising relative to deaths with covid on the death certificate might indicate that covid is increasingly contributing to deaths from other causes eg due to accumulative heart scar tissue from successive infections, and asking if anyone has seen any evidence or studies about this or alternative explanations for the relative change in death rates.
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As you say, COVID causes damage to heart cells directly, and also to small blood vessels providing oxygen to the heart. This will increase deaths attributed to heart disease.
COVID causes damage to small blood vessels providing oxygen to the brain, and also to nerve-supporting cells in the brain. This will reduce spare mental capacity, and increase deaths attributed to dementia.
COVID causes damage to kidneys, which will increase deaths attributed to kidney failure and diabetes (diabetes contributes to kidney failure).
Overall, excess deaths are up in Australia, and part of this is the long-term impact of long COVID.
- Anti-vaxxers with whom I communicate* attribute the excess deaths to the impact of vaccination, but the statistics I see suggest that risks from each COVID infection are about 2 orders of magnitude greater than the risks from each COVID vaccination.
*Anti-vaxxers are very common on various Social Media platforms; not so much on the TNS discussion board...
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Thanks for Clarifying & Setting it Fair.
Sorry i couldn't grasp it before.
Well, i did watch much of the 1 hour video, and i did see that the Graphs the Gentleman was presenting in his explanations seemed to be Official Government Medical Statistics.
It wasn't an independent observer or third party, so it seems Genuine Information.
And Evan has already mentioned a detailed explanation, & not left room to add anything further, hence i won't be commenting.
P.S. - In the beginning of Covid, i used to term/brand Anti-Vaxxers at par with Terrorists, who were trying to spread a biological weapon.
Now i have a much lenient approach, as they have the Right to Suicide, but i still feel they should stay at home n do it.
😷
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On the My World in Data covid page https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus I looked at similar countries and found something curious when looked at them using excess mortality (%). Subjective rather than scientific but still striking. Blue text for accumulaive confirmed covid deaths relative to population
Spain % Portugal :- followed the same trajectory, nothing special
Belgium and The Netherlands :- Belgium significantly harder hit early on but reached parity in excess mortality by the start of 2022 and remained similar ever since. Belgium started worse and has 2.25 the covid death rate (per capita) of The Netherlands
France and Germany :- France faired far worse early on reamaining double the excess mortality until october 2021 but now almost the same. France has reported 2.5 more covid deaths (per capita) than Germany
Finland, Norway and Sweden :- Sweden started badly but the other two caught up by late 2022. Norway and Finland mirrored each othe until the end of 2021, since then Finland has had twice as many covid deaths (per capita), ending up with 1.8 times the covid death rate of Norway. Sweden started badly and has had 2.3 times Norways death rate.
Can the differences between excess mortality and covid deaths be down to reporting differences? But just looking at excess mortality it is hard to explain how countries which had a better start leveled up even after vaccination because if they had less excess deaths prior to vaccination that they couldn't catch up.
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Can the differences between excess mortality and covid deaths be down to reporting differences?
Almost certainly. Covid mortality is a matter of opinion, excess mortality is a matter of fact.
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Looking at Our World in Data, excess mortality for the last 12 months is at 42% of what it was in the first year of the pandemic (April 2020 - March 2021) - in the UK. This is a lot of people dying. The month with the highest number of vaccination doses administered was December 2021 - Omicron scare. This was predominantly the RNA vaccine. In the four months after that there was a decline in excess deaths. One cannot catagorically say that, that prooves vaccines are not contributing to excess deaths, but it goes a long way in that direction. Also no signal suggesting effects of imprinting after the third dose of the original spike based vaccines.