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  4. Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
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Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?

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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #480 on: 19/08/2021 13:14:28 »
E.O. Wilson explains the meaning of human existence, in 6 minutes.
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When noted biologist and public intellectual E.O. Wilson visited the Grist offices touting his new book The Meaning of Human Existence, we took the opportunity to ask him: Well? What is it?

What followed was a deep and often funny conversation about who we are, where we came from, and why Interstellar is a poor example of melding science with the humanities (burn, Nolans). Oh, and Mr. Wilson’s also got some heady notions about where both our species and the planet are headed. Watch the video to have your mind blown.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #481 on: 21/08/2021 11:34:10 »
https://iai.tv/articles/the-origin-of-consciousness-auid-1865
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The origin of consciousness was a world-defining event, comparable only with the origin of life itself. Buried deep in the evolutionary record, the transition to minimal consciousness has far-reaching biological and philosophical implications. In this article, accompanied by art illustrations by Anna Zeligowski, Simona Ginsburg and Eva Jablonka put forward their new theory about how it began. Inspired by a scientific method used to pinpoint the transition from non-life to life, they establish a set of criteria for minimal consciousness and a unique identifying marker that fits them. This marker, they argue, drove the Cambrian explosion of biological diversity and provides an answer to the question of what organisms have consciousness.

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MuZero is an algorithm with a superhuman ability to learn: it has learned to play 57 different Atari video games as well as Chess, Go and Shogi, and defeated the greatest human masters in every one of them. Yet, this amazing algorithm and the computer in which it is implemented are as conscious as your washing machine. Its “intelligence”, manifest in its learning ability, has nothing to do with consciousness – the ability to feel, perceive and think in the deeply subjective sense that we cherish. If you were told that you would become deprived of all subjective perceptions and feelings, you would be devastated and consider such a life to be meaningless. Intelligence – having the ability to learn and solve complex problems like MuZero does –  and consciousness – being the subject of experience – seem to be unrelated.

But are intelligence and consciousness really unrelated? Most people have the strong intuition that clever animals like chimpanzees, dolphins, elephants and dogs are conscious, whereas they are less sure about animals like sea anemones, worms and slugs that show only very simple forms of learning.

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We looked at genes, proteins, anatomical brain regions and neurophysiological processes, but none of the many possibilities we examined entailed all the characteristic of consciousness.  After a year of searching we found a promising marker: a capacity for open-ended associative learning, which we called unlimited associative learning.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #482 on: 24/08/2021 07:01:10 »
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Tesla CEO Elon Musk recently revealed its Tesla Bot, designed to be a humanoid robot that will perform boring, and dangerous tasks. Here is everything Musk said about it at its AI day.

In the future, physical works will be optional. Mental works will follow soon. This should make us more humble with our current competitive advantages over our peers.
At that time, some form of universal basic income will be necessary. It will be better if we understand our terminal goal before then.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #483 on: 25/08/2021 11:22:53 »
Would you opt for a life with no pain? - Hayley Levitt and Bethany Rickwald

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Imagine if you could plug your brain into a machine that would bring you ultimate pleasure for the rest of your life. The only catch? You have to permanently leave reality behind. Hayley Levitt and Bethany Rickwald explore Robert Nozick’s thought experiment that he called the Experience Machine.
The experiment was meant to refute hedonistic view, and some type of utilitarian moral views. But if you have understood the universal terminal goal logically, starting with cogito ergo sum, and add only necessary assumptions to the reasoning, the answer should be obvious.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #484 on: 26/08/2021 22:15:56 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/08/2021 11:22:53
Would you opt for a life with no pain? - Hayley Levitt and Bethany Rickwald
It's basically what's being offered by most religions in afterlife for those who follow them.
Science and technology offer similar things, except that they can be done while we're alive.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #485 on: 26/08/2021 22:19:28 »

I know the REAL reason Tesla is building human robots! AI Day part 1
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What was the biggest revelation from Tesla's AI Day? Why Teslabot (or Optimus Subprime) of course! In this first of five videos on Tesla AI day, we cover what Elon Musk said this new robot is, how it will work, how it will change the world, and beyond!
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #486 on: 26/08/2021 22:48:17 »
I really can't see the point of a humanoid robot.

A lot of the human body is devoted to consuming food and eliminating waste, just to generate about 10W of continuous useful power or maybe 200W intermittent peak. You can buy a 200W continuous motor for around Ł50 and hold it in your hand!

Human appendages are remarkably adaptable and fitted with exceptional sensors, but if you want a machine to do a, quote, boring and dangerous job, why not design one that can do exactly that and nothing else? Or maybe a reprogrammable nonhumanoid machine with wheels rather than feet and a really powerful (or extremely precise and sensitive) arm that can break rocks or assemble watches today, and fell trees or bath babies tomorrow.

The human body is very adaptable to doing lots of things not very well, and there  is no shortage (indeed a considerable surplus) of these devices around. Even the really clever bit, the brain, which remains far beyond the capability of any technology, is ludicrously cheap to make and fun to train. What the brain needs, in order to better express itself, is dumb machines that do a few things extremely well.

« Last Edit: 26/08/2021 22:52:59 by alancalverd »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #487 on: 27/08/2021 06:51:08 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 26/08/2021 22:48:17
I really can't see the point of a humanoid robot.
Have you watched the video?
Quote from: alancalverd on 26/08/2021 22:48:17
Human appendages are remarkably adaptable and fitted with exceptional sensors, but if you want a machine to do a, quote, boring and dangerous job, why not design one that can do exactly that and nothing else?
What if the details of the jobs keep changing from time to time, while those jobs are still within the limits of normal human capabilities? Such as a personal assistant?
Humanoid robots can do those jobs without having to redesign the physical body for various kind of jobs.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #488 on: 27/08/2021 07:09:25 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 26/08/2021 22:48:17
The human body is very adaptable to doing lots of things not very well, and there  is no shortage (indeed a considerable surplus) of these devices around. Even the really clever bit, the brain, which remains far beyond the capability of any technology, is ludicrously cheap to make and fun to train. What the brain needs, in order to better express itself, is dumb machines that do a few things extremely well.
Imagine a company, or even a country, who deliberately put humans on dangerous jobs in order to reduce the surplus of population.
So, the main advantage of humanoid robots is their expendability without generating backlash an social unrest.
« Last Edit: 27/08/2021 07:20:16 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #489 on: 27/08/2021 08:43:46 »
Another advantage of humanoid robots is the capability for knowledge transfer. Any lesson learned by a unit can be quickly transfered to any other units.
We can train one unit to be a firefighter, another unit to be a medical professional, another unit to be a soldier, or any other profession, and then share the experience with the others, and they can do all of those jobs.
Although humans can also get this capability by getting direct brain interface which has high bandwith access to external memory storages.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #490 on: 29/08/2021 14:39:04 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 06/06/2018 18:07:24
restating those basic assumptions in fewer words:
1. There is universe.
2. There are universal laws.
Just revisiting my old posts.
Those assumptions are obtained through inductive reasoning from our experience, on top of a more fundamental assumption, which is cogito ergo sum.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #491 on: 29/08/2021 20:58:15 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/09/2017 07:41:27
In this thread I'd like to discuss if there is a goal or desired condition which is applicable for any organisms who have adequate time to evolve or develop until they are basically independent from condition of their natural environments.
I think utopia is reached by all living things at the time of death. This is the only way to escape the environment.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #492 on: 30/08/2021 05:23:37 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 29/08/2021 20:58:15
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/09/2017 07:41:27
In this thread I'd like to discuss if there is a goal or desired condition which is applicable for any organisms who have adequate time to evolve or develop until they are basically independent from condition of their natural environments.
I think utopia is reached by all living things at the time of death. This is the only way to escape the environment.
Don't you think it means that killing everyone is a good thing?
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #493 on: 30/08/2021 05:50:48 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 30/08/2021 05:23:37
Don't you think it means that killing everyone is a good thing?
No death comes naturally every one must wait their turn.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #494 on: 30/08/2021 11:32:04 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 30/08/2021 05:50:48
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 30/08/2021 05:23:37
Don't you think it means that killing everyone is a good thing?
No death comes naturally every one must wait their turn.
Would you prefer to live shorter? or live longer instead?
Will you do anything to live longer or shorter (according to your own preference)?
Or you won't do anything of such efforts, and leave it to nature?
Is killed by contagious diseases natural enough for you? what about venomous snake, or being struck by lightning?
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #495 on: 30/08/2021 19:07:44 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 30/08/2021 11:32:04
Would you prefer to live shorter? or live longer instead?
Will you do anything to live longer or shorter (according to your own preference)?
Or you won't do anything of such efforts, and
Is killed by contagious diseases natural enough for you? what about venomous snake, or being struck by lightning?
leave it to nature?
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 30/08/2021 11:32:04
leave it to nature?
Is the best way.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #496 on: 31/08/2021 06:42:20 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 30/08/2021 19:07:44
leave it to nature?

Is the best way.

Quote
An appeal to nature is an argument or rhetorical tactic in which it is proposed that "a thing is good because it is 'natural', or bad because it is 'unnatural'".[1] It is generally considered to be a bad argument because the implicit (unstated) primary premise "What is natural is good" is typically irrelevant, having no cogent meaning in practice, or is an opinion instead of a fact. In some philosophical frameworks where natural and good are clearly defined within a specific context, the appeal to nature might be valid and cogent.
Quote
Some popular examples of the appeal to nature can be found on labels and advertisements for food, clothing, alternative herbal remedies, and many other areas.[4][9] Labels may use the phrase "all-natural", to imply that products are environmentally friendly and safe. However, whether or not a product is "natural" is irrelevant, in itself, in determining its safety or effectiveness.[4][10] For example, many dangerous poisons are compounds that are found in nature.

It is also common practice for medicine to be brought up as an appeal to nature, stating that medicine is "unnatural" and therefore should not be used.[9] This is particularly notable as an argument employed against the practice of vaccination.[11]

On the topic of meat consumption, Peter Singer argues that it is fallacious to say that eating meat is morally acceptable simply because it is part of the "natural way", as the way that humans and other animals do behave naturally has no bearing on how we should behave. Thus, Singer claims, the moral permissibility or impermissibility of eating meat must be assessed on its own merits, not by appealing to what is "natural".[12]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #497 on: 31/08/2021 08:10:28 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 31/08/2021 06:42:20
An appeal to nature is an argument or rhetorical tactic in which it is proposed that "a thing is good because it is 'natural', or bad because it is 'unnatural'
Earthquakes and cyclones are part of nature and they are not a good thing but when it comes to death it is a matter of choice at the time as to make every effort to recover or let go and take the easy route utopia.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #498 on: 31/08/2021 10:07:23 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 31/08/2021 08:10:28
Earthquakes and cyclones are part of nature and they are not a good thing but when it comes to death it is a matter of choice at the time as to make every effort to recover or let go and take the easy route utopia.
mRNA vaccines are unnatural. Does it mean that they are bad, as they can prevent some deaths?
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #499 on: 31/08/2021 17:36:37 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 31/08/2021 10:07:23
mRNA vaccines are unnatural. Does it mean that they are bad, as they can prevent some deaths?
Vaccines are generally a good thing as they provide a path to a natural end.
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