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  4. Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
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Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #580 on: 09/10/2021 09:05:58 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/09/2021 07:35:05
Quote from: Sebdoc on 26/09/2021 18:23:59
How some living beings choose to behave together affects whether living together is fun for them or not.
What's fun? What makes something fun?
Neuroscience tells us that fun things are those which lead to release of dopamine to the brain. Neuroscientists can hack it to make you feel happy or have fun for no reason. 
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #581 on: 09/10/2021 15:03:57 »
Why use reason?

We end up with capacity-circularity, which can't be a flaw in an argument, because it's not a property of arguments in themselves.
The capacity to reason isn't a premise or a rule, so the argument for its legitimacy need not be premise-circular or rule-circular.

This argument is closely related to anthropic principle and cogito ergo sum, which I've mentioned before.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #582 on: 22/10/2021 06:32:47 »
The capacity to reason is part of consciousness, which is the core concept of universal terminal goal.
The article below tries to understand the fundamentals of cognition by studying simplest life forms into details.

Quote
https://aeon.co/essays/the-study-of-the-mind-needs-a-copernican-shift-in-perspective

On the origin of minds
Cognition did not appear out of nowhere in ‘higher’ animals but goes back millions, perhaps billions, of years
...
What is cognition? Like many mental concepts, the term has no consensus definition, a fact that infuriated William James 130 years ago and occasional others since. This is my definition: Cognition comprises the means by which organisms become familiar with, value, exploit and evade features of their surroundings in order to survive, thrive and reproduce.

Evolution had laid a foundation of capacities considered cognitive well before nervous systems appeared.

Microbes can illuminate cognitive mechanisms ordinarily associated with complex animals

Quote
‘There is grandeur in this view of life,’ Darwin writes, and he is correct. We can now see ourselves – with scientific justification and with no need for mystical overlay or anthropomorphism – in a daffodil, an earthworm, perhaps even a bacterium, as well as a chimpanzee. We share common origins. We share genes. We share many of the mechanisms by which we become familiar with and value the worlds that our senses make. We are all struggling for existence, each in our own way, dependent on one another, striving to survive, to thrive and (for some) to reproduce, on this planet we share – which is not the centre of the Universe, or even the solar system, but is the only home any one of us has.

Just as we have come to think of our bodies as evolved from simpler forms of body, it is time to embrace Darwin’s radical idea that our minds, too, are evolved from much simpler minds. Body and mind evolved together and will continue to do so.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #583 on: 26/10/2021 09:41:28 »
The Great Filter: Humanity's Final Exam
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #584 on: 27/10/2021 07:25:42 »
The accelerating power of technology
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Inventor, entrepreneur and visionary Ray Kurzweil explains in abundant, grounded detail why, by the 2020s, we will have reverse-engineered the human brain and nanobots will be operating your consciousness.
The vidoe was uploaded on 13 Jan 2007. It looks like he's a little bit too optimistic. But his assertion that progress grows exponentially still looks valid.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #585 on: 29/10/2021 07:02:27 »
Exponential Tomorrow | Ray Kurzweil | Exponential Manufacturing
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Singularity University's Exponential Manufacturing Summit leads 500+ of the world's brightest executives, entrepreneurs and investors through an intensive three-day program in Boston to prepare them for the changes brought forth by unstoppable technological progress.

From May 17-19, 2017, we explored how exponential technologies including artificial intelligence, additive manufacturing, exponential energy, and bio manufacturing are continually redefining the future of work, production, supply chain, and design.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #586 on: 29/10/2021 08:59:57 »
I'd like to share my conversation in Twitter here.
https://twitter.com/risephilosophy/status/1453346744142483460
Quote
Question:

If you could teach everyone in the world one concept, what concept would have the biggest positive impact on humanity?
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The Universal Terminal Goal.
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What it is?
Quote
It's implied by the definition of each word in the phrase. The "goal" requires the existence of at least 1 conscious entities. The "terminal" implies that the goal is long term, put in the future as far as conceivable. The "universal" implies that it's always applicable anywhere.
In short, the universal terminal goal is to extend the existence of consciousness as far as possible into the future, regardless of their locations and forms.
Quote
Escaping the heat death of the universe
Quote
It can be a terminal goal. But it's not universal, because it's not applicable to conscious entities who don't recognize the concept of heat death.
Moreover, we don't yet know for sure about it. It's an extrapolation of what we observed in nature. It's still possible that future universe will behave differently than the regular patterns that we've seen until now.
And we will never know if we go extinct before then. So we should do our best to prevent it, at least from known existential threats. We must also beware of black swan events. That's why becoming a multiplanetary society is important.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #587 on: 31/10/2021 14:45:33 »
In my previous posts, I mentioned about black swan. In case you still wonder, here's what I meant.
https://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/taleb09/taleb09_index.html
Quote
In his "Ten Principles for a Black Swan-robust world", Nassim Nicholas Taleb is on the ramparts assuming an activist role in urging us "to move voluntarily into Capitalism 2.0 by helping what needs to be broken break on its own, converting debt into equity, marginalising the economics and business school establishments, shutting down the 'Nobel' in economics, banning leveraged buyouts, putting bankers where they belong, clawing back the bonuses of those who got us here, and teaching people to navigate a world with fewer certainties."

"Then we will see an economic life closer to our biological environment: smaller companies, richer ecology, no leverage. A world in which entrepreneurs, not bankers, take the risks and companies are born and die every day without making the news."
Quote
TEN PRINCIPLES FOR A BLACK-SWAN-ROBUST WORLD

1. What is fragile should break early while it is still small. Nothing should ever become too big to fail. Evolution in economic life helps those with the maximum amount of hidden risks – and hence the most fragile – become the biggest.

2. No socialisation of losses and privatisation of gains. Whatever may need to be bailed out should be nationalised; whatever does not need a bail-out should be free, small and risk-bearing. We have managed to combine the worst of capitalism and socialism. In France in the 1980s, the socialists took over the banks. In the US in the 2000s, the banks took over the government. This is surreal.

3. People who were driving a school bus blindfolded (and crashed it) should never be given a new bus. The economics establishment (universities, regulators, central bankers, government officials, various organisations staffed with economists) lost its legitimacy with the failure of the system. It is irresponsible and foolish to put our trust in the ability of such experts to get us out of this mess. Instead, find the smart people whose hands are clean.

4. Do not let someone making an “incentive” bonus manage a nuclear plant – or your financial risks. Odds are he would cut every corner on safety to show “profits” while claiming to be “conservative”. Bonuses do not accommodate the hidden risks of blow-ups. It is the asymmetry of the bonus system that got us here. No incentives without disincentives: capitalism is about rewards and punishments, not just rewards.

5. Counter-balance complexity with simplicity. Complexity from globalisation and highly networked economic life needs to be countered by simplicity in financial products. The complex economy is already a form of leverage: the leverage of efficiency. Such systems survive thanks to slack and redundancy; adding debt produces wild and dangerous gyrations and leaves no room for error. Capitalism cannot avoid fads and bubbles: equity bubbles (as in 2000) have proved to be mild; debt bubbles are vicious.

6. Do not give children sticks of dynamite, even if they come with a warning. Complex derivatives need to be banned because nobody understands them and few are rational enough to know it. Citizens must be protected from themselves, from bankers selling them “hedging” products, and from gullible regulators who listen to economic theorists.

7. Only Ponzi schemes should depend on confidence. Governments should never need to “restore confidence”. Cascading rumours are a product of complex systems. Governments cannot stop the rumours. Simply, we need to be in a position to shrug off rumours, be robust in the face of them.

8. Do not give an addict more drugs if he has withdrawal pains. Using leverage to cure the problems of too much leverage is not homeopathy, it is denial. The debt crisis is not a temporary problem, it is a structural one. We need rehab.

9. Citizens should not depend on financial assets or fallible “expert” advice for their retirement. Economic life should be definancialised. We should learn not to use markets as storehouses of value: they do not harbour the certainties that normal citizens require. Citizens should experience anxiety about their own businesses (which they control), not their investments (which they do not control).

10. Make an omelette with the broken eggs. Finally, this crisis cannot be fixed with makeshift repairs, no more than a boat with a rotten hull can be fixed with ad-hoc patches. We need to rebuild the hull with new (stronger) materials; we will have to remake the system before it does so itself. Let us move voluntarily into Capitalism 2.0 by helping what needs to be broken break on its own, converting debt into equity, marginalising the economics and business school establishments, shutting down the “Nobel” in economics, banning leveraged buyouts, putting bankers where they belong, clawing back the bonuses of those who got us here, and teaching people to navigate a world with fewer certainties.

Then we will see an economic life closer to our biological environment: smaller companies, richer ecology, no leverage. A world in which entrepreneurs, not bankers, take the risks and companies are born and die every day without making the news.

In other words, a place more resistant to black swans.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #588 on: 02/11/2021 05:20:48 »
Ray Kurzweil: Get ready for hybrid thinking
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Two hundred million years ago, our mammal ancestors developed a new brain feature: the neocortex. This stamp-sized piece of tissue (wrapped around a brain the size of a walnut) is the key to what humanity has become. Now, futurist Ray Kurzweil suggests, we should get ready for the next big leap in brain power, as we tap into the computing power in the cloud.
Let's check if our currently held goals and highest priorities will still be relevant in the future situations as predicted in the video. If not, we'd better start looking for new goals and change our priorities.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #589 on: 02/11/2021 12:19:40 »
Elon Musk: The future we're building -- and boring
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Elon Musk discusses his new project digging tunnels under LA, the latest from Tesla and SpaceX and his motivation for building a future on Mars in conversation with TED's Head Curator, Chris Anderson.
In the end of the video, Elon reminds us that progress should not be taken for granted. We must passionately work for it.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #590 on: 10/11/2021 06:36:05 »
The secret lab making the most sustainable food in the world
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Solar Foods is a startup making food out of thin air.

While we currently produce more than enough food to feed the world — making hunger, maddeningly, a problem of access, not abundance —  that abundance comes at a steep environmental cost.

As plant-based alternatives to meat are growing in popularity and market share, their production still requires large-scale agricultural processes. And while growing crops has a smaller carbon footprint than raising animals, that does not mean it accounts for nothing.

Solar Foods believes the answer to a more sustainable food source is to not count on better agricultural practices or consuming less animal products — or the entire field of food production at all.  To create this new, sustainable food source, Solar Foods has created a novel form of food — a protein made from single-cell organisms called Solein.

Needing primarily electricity and water, single-cell proteins can potentially be grown in the harshest of Earth environments as well. Places where traditional agriculture is difficult to impossible could produce their own sustainable food.
This lab is trying to achieve higher efficiency for sustaining human consciousness.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #591 on: 14/11/2021 04:30:28 »
It looks like natural selection had already been doing its job even before first living cells emerged.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #592 on: 05/12/2021 04:45:25 »
I'd like to continue the thought on this post here, which is more relevant than the the topic of  morality in its original thread.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 02/12/2021 15:29:33
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 01/12/2021 16:34:40
Quote from: alancalverd on 01/12/2021 11:13:55
It is also clear that species compete for resources, so the elimination of the species that most seriously damages the ecological equilibrium  (homo sapiens) would be a Good Thing for the planet as a whole, assuming that biodiversity and sustainability of life are desirable.
What do you expect to happen if humans go extinct in near future?
Will other species that survive stay how they are now indefinitely? Will some of them evolve to replace the ecological niche left out by humans? Will they follow the path of human evolution and develop science and technology? Will they repeat humans' mistakes? What makes you sure that they will be wiser?

I'm still waiting for your answers to the questions above. To be fair, I'll also try to answer them in my opinion.
The other species will continue the evolutionary process. The details of their evolutionary paths will depend on environmental changes at that time.
Some of them may improve their cognitive abilities. Given enough time, they might get close to, or even exceed current human levels.
They will also develop science and technology. They will repeat some of human's mistakes. They will also make new mistakes haven't been done by humans.
The problem is, the time required for the process can be very long. It might even exceed the time when the earth becomes no longer habitable to any living organisms. There's no guarantee that they will be able to pass the great filter. In this regards, humans have a clear advantage in the form of a head start.

Imagine a star undergoing a supernova. The star has a planet which contains evolved lifeforms. Some of them have developed to similar level of culture, science, and technology as medieval humans. They are all destroyed without a trace due to the explosion. Their billions of years of evolutionary process, as well as millenias of cultural and moral development would be meaningless to the universe. Conscious entities which exist after that won't see the difference between their existence and non-existence.
« Last Edit: 05/12/2021 04:54:39 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #593 on: 05/12/2021 06:09:29 »
Any conscious entity can be classified based on their thoughts and actions regarding the universal terminal goal.
1. Those who think that there is a universal terminal goal, and act accordingly.
2. Those who think that there is a universal terminal goal, but act contrary to the thought.
3. Those who think that there is no universal terminal goal, and act accordingly.
4. Those who think that there is no universal terminal goal, but act contrary to the thought.

Any conscious entities that exist in the far future are almost surely come from type 1 conscious entities. Type 2 and 4 are unreliable, hence their results are mostly random. In long term, their chance to survive (preserve consciousness in any form) diminishes to near zero. Type 3 will extinct much earlier.
« Last Edit: 05/12/2021 06:46:32 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #594 on: 08/12/2021 07:49:21 »
Quote
Why you think you're right -- even if you're wrong | Julia Galef
Perspective is everything, especially when it comes to examining your beliefs. Are you a soldier, prone to defending your viewpoint at all costs — or a scout, spurred by curiosity? Julia Galef examines the motivations behind these two mindsets and how they shape the way we interpret information, interweaved with a compelling history lesson from 19th-century France. When your steadfast opinions are tested, Galef asks: "What do you most yearn for? Do you yearn to defend your own beliefs or do you yearn to see the world as clearly as you possibly can?"
The soldier and scout metaphor is closely related to deductive and inductive reasoning, respectively. To survive, we need to set them in balance. Too close minded will prevent us from responding quickly enough in environmental changes, and lose in the competition. Too open minded will make us vulnerable from scams.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #595 on: 14/12/2021 09:23:24 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 08/12/2021 07:49:21
The soldier and scout metaphor is closely related to deductive and inductive reasoning, respectively.
They are also related to ought-is problem, respectively. The scouts simply try to map their environment as it is. While the soldiers try to make/keep their environment as what it ought to be.
Both are needed in decision making process to determine what needs to be done.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #596 on: 18/12/2021 04:38:22 »
Wake up! 😆
How much do you value your own life?
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #597 on: 21/12/2021 12:28:23 »
This thread is meant to explore the purpose of our existence. Besides this, there are other two  spin offs, which were created because they have a lot of material to discuss separately on their own. One of them is about morality, while the other is about virtual universe. They are closely related with ought and is problem, respectively.

This thread will be used to discuss other topics related to our universal goals which are not already covered in the spin off threads. One of those topics are economy, which is basically talking about resource allocation. The video below is a good starting point to introduce us to the modern economy.

Quote
From cryptocurrencies to NFTs, crypto seems as though it's here to stay - but is that a good thing? To find out, I debated.. myself.

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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #598 on: 28/12/2021 05:16:00 »
Debunking the #1 MYTH About Medicare for All
Quote
A recent report from the Lancet Commission suggests that more than 200,000 lives could have been saved in the United States if a Medicare for All, Single Payer healthcare system had been in place when the coronavirus pandemic struck. Yet many Americans remain skeptical of Medicare for All, primarily because of the propaganda and scare tactics coming out of the for-profit healthcare industry, including Big Pharma, health insurance companies, medical device manufacturers, and their mouthpieces in the mainstream media.

In this clip Jimmy addresses the #1 myth about Medicare for All -- that we should be afraid of a "government takeover" of the healthcare system.
Removing the "middlemen" is a form of improving efficiency, which is the universal instrumental goal. Although this would affect negatively to those middlemen, since they would lose income, or even their jobs. This has happened to extinct jobs like telephone switchboard operators. Many other jobs are about to follow suit.
https://www.boredpanda.com/extinct-jobs/
https://www.careeraddict.com/disappearing-jobs
Quote
Although the prospects for these jobs might look grim, it’s not all bad news. A 2017 report by tech giant Dell claims that 85% of the jobs that will be available in 2030 have not even been invented yet, with the technological landscape set to become unrecognizable over the next 13 years.

Many of the jobs in this list will also become redefined as opposed to totally eradicated, with skills that can be transferable to other roles. Flexibility and a willingness to change careers will be an important attribute in the future job market.

If you want to be totally bulletproof from the claws of progression, though, author and futurist Martin Ford recommends pursuing a career in industries that require creative and interpersonal skills, such as art, science, business and medicine. So far, computers cannot replicate true human inspiration and intellect, so these occupations seem safe (for now)!
« Last Edit: 29/12/2021 06:14:12 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #599 on: 29/12/2021 06:11:48 »
TIME Person of the Year: Elon Musk
Quote
Person of the Year is a marker of influence, and few individuals have had more influence than Musk on life on Earth, and potentially life off Earth too. In 2021, Musk emerged not just as the world’s richest person but also as perhaps the richest example of a massive shift in our society.

His achievement doesn't happen suddenly over night. We can see retrospectively from older interview many years ago.

Elon Musk - CEO of Tesla Motors and SpaceX | Entrepreneurship | Khan Academy

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