The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Member Map
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. New Theories
  4. Is there a better way to explain light?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: 1 ... 17 18 [19] 20 21   Go Down

Is there a better way to explain light?

  • 410 Replies
  • 26366 Views
  • 1 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 6027
  • Activity:
    42%
  • Thanked: 227 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #360 on: 23/12/2022 02:04:08 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 21/12/2022 08:50:34
Yes, I know.

That's why I put it there.
Why did you feel the need to explain it?
Because it defeats your reasoning.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 6027
  • Activity:
    42%
  • Thanked: 227 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #361 on: 23/12/2022 02:29:53 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 21/12/2022 08:50:34
But the point is that if you did have perfectly transparent materials, you could make diffraction patterns with them.
You could, for example, consider the quartz that is used for optical cables that transmit light for miles without significant attenuation and water which is similarly transparent for visible light.
And you could make a hologram using just those materials only a millimetre thick.
The fact that they are not actually perfectly transparent is beside the point.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Color-online-Optical-reflectance-spectra-of-quartz-glass-asdeposited-ZnO-and_fig5_274430836

If you think that 7% reflectance is "perfect", it's up to you. But I classify it as partial opacity. Especially at the edge of an obstacle, where the incident angle is close to 90°.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_equations#Power_(intensity)_reflection_and_transmission_coefficients
R=reflectance
T=transmittance
S & P refer to polarization axes of electric field compared to plane of incidence, perpendicular and parallel, respectively.
« Last Edit: 23/12/2022 02:33:47 by hamdani yusuf »
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 6027
  • Activity:
    42%
  • Thanked: 227 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #362 on: 23/12/2022 02:30:55 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 21/12/2022 08:53:55
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 21/12/2022 02:48:36
you need to recheck the meaning of your own statements.
One of us does, and it's not me.
The fact that there are two different answers to your question just shows that it isn't a well framed question, doesn't it?

They are not well framed answers.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 29134
  • Activity:
    79.5%
  • Thanked: 1068 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #363 on: 23/12/2022 08:53:36 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 23/12/2022 02:04:08
Quote from: Bored chemist on 21/12/2022 08:50:34
Yes, I know.

That's why I put it there.
Why did you feel the need to explain it?
Because it defeats your reasoning.
No, it doesn't.
My reasoning is that your question is badly written and can provide two answers which contradict eachother.
The current is zero because the charge  does not change.
Or the current is undefined because it does ot specify the time over which the change happens (from another perspective.) and current is defined as a rate of change of charge with time.

Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 23/12/2022 02:30:55
Quote from: Bored chemist on 21/12/2022 08:53:55
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 21/12/2022 02:48:36
you need to recheck the meaning of your own statements.
One of us does, and it's not me.
The fact that there are two different answers to your question just shows that it isn't a well framed question, doesn't it?

They are not well framed answers.
No.
See above.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 29134
  • Activity:
    79.5%
  • Thanked: 1068 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #364 on: 23/12/2022 09:00:35 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 23/12/2022 02:29:53
Quote from: Bored chemist on 21/12/2022 08:50:34
But the point is that if you did have perfectly transparent materials, you could make diffraction patterns with them.
You could, for example, consider the quartz that is used for optical cables that transmit light for miles without significant attenuation and water which is similarly transparent for visible light.
And you could make a hologram using just those materials only a millimetre thick.
The fact that they are not actually perfectly transparent is beside the point.


If you think that 7% reflectance is "perfect", it's up to you. But I classify it as partial opacity. Especially at the edge of an obstacle, where the incident angle is close to 90°.




You don't seem to understand what transparent means.
It refers to the material, not the interface.
We say "water is transparent".
we don't says "the interface between water and air is transparent".

If I wanted to measure the transmission of quartz per se, I would get two pieces of different lengths and compare the transmission through both of them.

Why did you waste time and bandwidth with those diagrams when you could have just said "What about reflectance?"?
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 



Offline paul cotter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 627
  • Activity:
    8.5%
  • Thanked: 81 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #365 on: 23/12/2022 17:54:29 »
Nothing is perfectly transparent other than empty space. Quartz is, however, highly transparent and may be called perfectly transparent for all practical purposes.
Logged
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 6027
  • Activity:
    42%
  • Thanked: 227 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #366 on: 24/12/2022 03:44:10 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/12/2022 08:53:36
My reasoning is that your question is badly written and can provide two answers which contradict eachother.
The current is zero because the charge  does not change.
Or the current is undefined because it does ot specify the time over which the change happens (from another perspective.) and current is defined as a rate of change of charge with time.
You have two contradicting answers because you don't understand the question.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 6027
  • Activity:
    42%
  • Thanked: 227 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #367 on: 24/12/2022 03:45:47 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/12/2022 09:00:35
Why did you waste time and bandwidth with those diagrams when you could have just said "What about reflectance?"?
So that you don't get confused for too long.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 6027
  • Activity:
    42%
  • Thanked: 227 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #368 on: 24/12/2022 03:48:43 »
Quote from: paul cotter on 23/12/2022 17:54:29
Nothing is perfectly transparent other than empty space. Quartz is, however, highly transparent and may be called perfectly transparent for all practical purposes.
As shown in the diagram I posted, it's clearly far from transparent in the conditions relevant to diffraction, which is around the edge of an object, where incident angle can be close to 90°.
« Last Edit: 29/12/2022 04:04:33 by hamdani yusuf »
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 29134
  • Activity:
    79.5%
  • Thanked: 1068 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #369 on: 28/12/2022 16:01:50 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 24/12/2022 03:44:10
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/12/2022 08:53:36
My reasoning is that your question is badly written and can provide two answers which contradict eachother.
The current is zero because the charge  does not change.
Or the current is undefined because it does ot specify the time over which the change happens (from another perspective.) and current is defined as a rate of change of charge with time.
You have two contradicting answers because you don't understand the question.
They are both correct answers to your question, and they contradict each other.
That is a problem with the question, not with my understanding.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 29134
  • Activity:
    79.5%
  • Thanked: 1068 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #370 on: 28/12/2022 16:03:14 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 24/12/2022 03:45:47
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/12/2022 09:00:35
Why did you waste time and bandwidth with those diagrams when you could have just said "What about reflectance?"?
So that you don't get confused for too long.
How did you come to the conclusion that I'm confused?
Is it because you can not accept that your question was meaningless?
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 29134
  • Activity:
    79.5%
  • Thanked: 1068 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #371 on: 28/12/2022 16:05:09 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 24/12/2022 03:48:43
As shown in the diagram I posted, it's clearly far for transparent in the conditions relevant to diffraction, which is around the edge of an object, where incident angle can be close to 90°.
So, you are still struggling with what transparent means.
It's to do with absorbing light, not with reflecting it
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 6027
  • Activity:
    42%
  • Thanked: 227 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #372 on: 29/12/2022 03:59:57 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 28/12/2022 16:01:50
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 24/12/2022 03:44:10
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/12/2022 08:53:36
My reasoning is that your question is badly written and can provide two answers which contradict eachother.
The current is zero because the charge  does not change.
Or the current is undefined because it does ot specify the time over which the change happens (from another perspective.) and current is defined as a rate of change of charge with time.
You have two contradicting answers because you don't understand the question.
They are both correct answers to your question, and they contradict each other.
That is a problem with the question, not with my understanding.
How should the question be stated according to your understanding?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 
The following users thanked this post: Zer0



Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 6027
  • Activity:
    42%
  • Thanked: 227 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #373 on: 29/12/2022 04:03:28 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 28/12/2022 16:05:09
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 24/12/2022 03:48:43
As shown in the diagram I posted, it's clearly far for transparent in the conditions relevant to diffraction, which is around the edge of an object, where incident angle can be close to 90°.
So, you are still struggling with what transparent means.
It's to do with absorbing light, not with reflecting it
So, you are still struggling with understanding a diagram.
In interaction between visible light beam and a glass, most of the intensity is either reflected or transmitted. Only a small amount is absorbed. Otherwise, we wouldn't have a laser cutter, or beam splitter commonly used in interferometers.
« Last Edit: 29/12/2022 04:06:56 by hamdani yusuf »
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 29134
  • Activity:
    79.5%
  • Thanked: 1068 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #374 on: 29/12/2022 09:48:23 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/12/2022 03:59:57
How should the question be stated according to your understanding?
How am I meant to guess what you want t know if you can't write it down?
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 
The following users thanked this post: Zer0

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 29134
  • Activity:
    79.5%
  • Thanked: 1068 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #375 on: 29/12/2022 09:49:01 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/12/2022 04:03:28
Quote from: Bored chemist on 28/12/2022 16:05:09
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 24/12/2022 03:48:43
As shown in the diagram I posted, it's clearly far for transparent in the conditions relevant to diffraction, which is around the edge of an object, where incident angle can be close to 90°.
So, you are still struggling with what transparent means.
It's to do with absorbing light, not with reflecting it
So, you are still struggling with understanding a diagram.
In interaction between visible light beam and a glass, most of the intensity is either reflected or transmitted. Only a small amount is absorbed. Otherwise, we wouldn't have a laser cutter, or beam splitter commonly used in interferometers.

Go and look up what the words mean.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 6027
  • Activity:
    42%
  • Thanked: 227 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #376 on: 30/12/2022 07:35:08 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 29/12/2022 09:48:23
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/12/2022 03:59:57
How should the question be stated according to your understanding?
How am I meant to guess what you want t know if you can't write it down?
I already wrote it down. You only need the ability to read and understand meanings of words in a sentence.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 6027
  • Activity:
    42%
  • Thanked: 227 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #377 on: 30/12/2022 07:36:25 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 29/12/2022 09:49:01
Go and look up what the words mean.
Does a silver mirror transparent, as per your definition?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 29134
  • Activity:
    79.5%
  • Thanked: 1068 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #378 on: 30/12/2022 09:43:03 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 30/12/2022 07:35:08
Quote from: Bored chemist on 29/12/2022 09:48:23
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/12/2022 03:59:57
How should the question be stated according to your understanding?
How am I meant to guess what you want t know if you can't write it down?
I already wrote it down. You only need the ability to read and understand meanings of words in a sentence.
What you wrote down does not make sense.
It's not a matter of understanding the words.
It is a problem because you used words that say something that makes no sense
The cat chaired the car.
You know what every word means, but the sentence has no meaning.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 29134
  • Activity:
    79.5%
  • Thanked: 1068 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #379 on: 30/12/2022 09:43:59 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 30/12/2022 07:36:25
Quote from: Bored chemist on 29/12/2022 09:49:01
Go and look up what the words mean.
Does a silver mirror transparent, as per your definition?
Does it what?
Or did you use the wrong word?
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 



  • Print
Pages: 1 ... 17 18 [19] 20 21   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags: light 
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.143 seconds with 78 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.