The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Member Map
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. New Theories
  4. How Many Numbers Exist?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]   Go Down

How Many Numbers Exist?

  • 86 Replies
  • 4670 Views
  • 5 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Zer0

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 903
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 85 times
  • Homo EviliUs
    • View Profile
Re: How Many Numbers Exist?
« Reply #80 on: 14/10/2021 18:47:21 »
@BilboGrabbins

Hi there!
🙋

I have a Query, Especially for You.
Interested?

A_______B

A simple line.
Start point A.
End point B.

I suppose i can keep dividing it into Halves.

But considering Planck's Length, Can i Divide it until Infinity?

If i Know the Line's point of Origin(A) & am Aware of the Line's point of Cessation(B)...Does that sound like Infinity?

Or if i didn't know the Origin, n was clueless bout the End.
Infinity!

Ps - Thanks E_S for the suggestions.
I've Realized my capacity to understand & learn is Not infinite.
Hence i do not bother myself, & also spare Others of goin thru the troubles of explaining me things which i Firmly Believe i shall never understand.
(Reason i Request for short & brief answers, i Hate it when Teachers waste their Precious Time on Futile Things)
: )
Logged
1N73LL1G3NC3  15  7H3  481L17Y  70  4D4P7  70  CH4NG3.
 



Offline BilboGrabbins

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 119
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: How Many Numbers Exist?
« Reply #81 on: 14/10/2021 19:08:11 »
Quote from: Zer0 on 14/10/2021 18:47:21
@BilboGrabbins

Hi there!
🙋

I have a Query, Especially for You.
Interested?

A_______B

A simple line.
Start point A.
End point B.

I suppose i can keep dividing it into Halves.

But considering Planck's Length, Can i Divide it until Infinity?

If i Know the Line's point of Origin(A) & am Aware of the Line's point of Cessation(B)...Does that sound like Infinity?

Or if i didn't know the Origin, n was clueless bout the End.
Infinity!

Ps - Thanks E_S for the suggestions.
I've Realized my capacity to understand & learn is Not infinite.
Hence i do not bother myself, & also spare Others of goin thru the troubles of explaining me things which i Firmly Believe i shall never understand.
(Reason i Request for short & brief answers, i Hate it when Teachers waste their Precious Time on Futile Things)
: )

No, to divide through the Planck length infinitely many times would be equivelent to a singularity. That is itself equivelent to a breakdown in physics.
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Zer0

Offline Eternal Student

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 920
  • Activity:
    42%
  • Thanked: 177 times
    • View Profile
Re: How Many Numbers Exist?
« Reply #82 on: 15/10/2021 15:30:05 »
Hi.

Quote from: Zer0 on 14/10/2021 18:47:21
I've Realized my capacity to understand & learn is Not infinite.
   Neither is mine.  I was especially "thick" as a child and couldn't read, write or do arithmetic until I was about 10 years old.  Fortunately the UK doesn't hold people back a year when they don't pass exams, so I did get out of primary school.

Quote from: BilboGrabbins on 14/10/2021 19:08:11
No, to divide through the Planck length infinitely many times would be equivalent to a singularity. That is itself equivelent to a breakdown in physics.
    This is about the limitations of our ability to probe below the planck length not the actual nature of space.

...The Planck length is expected to be the shortest measurable distance, since any attempt to investigate the possible existence of shorter distances, by performing higher-energy collisions, would inevitably result in black hole production....         [from Wikipedia]
    It doesn't follow that space isn't continuous, just that our current experiments to probe below that length are expected to create a black hole and change the nature of space in the region.

Best Wishes.
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Zer0

Offline BilboGrabbins

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 119
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: How Many Numbers Exist?
« Reply #83 on: 15/10/2021 21:47:47 »
It's sort of the point here. Physics breaks down below this length.
Logged
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 4623
  • Activity:
    77.5%
  • Thanked: 181 times
    • View Profile
Re: How Many Numbers Exist?
« Reply #84 on: 16/10/2021 09:43:31 »
Quote from: Eternal Student on 15/10/2021 15:30:05
...The Planck length is expected to be the shortest measurable distance, since any attempt to investigate the possible existence of shorter distances, by performing higher-energy collisions, would inevitably result in black hole production....         [from Wikipedia]
What prevents us from expanding a 1 meter rod to 1 meter plus half Planck's length, eg. by heating it up?
« Last Edit: 16/10/2021 09:46:03 by hamdani yusuf »
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline Eternal Student

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 920
  • Activity:
    42%
  • Thanked: 177 times
    • View Profile
Re: How Many Numbers Exist?
« Reply #85 on: 16/10/2021 23:29:00 »
Hi.

Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/10/2021 09:43:31
What prevents us from expanding a 1 meter rod to 1 meter plus half Planck's length, eg. by heating it up?
   Are you asking me?  BilboGrabbins was the one proposing that space cannot be divided into units smaller than the Planck length.
   There's nothing I know of that would prevent space from being continuous.  Indeed, the standard formulation of General Relativity requires that space is continuous.
   However, when you come to measure a rod there are practical limits in our ability to measure things that accurately.   It also assumes the rod is some idealised body and not a quantum mechanical system.  Treating the particles that make up the rod as quantum mechanical objects would put a theoretical limit on the ability to localise the ends of the rod. 
    If I recall correctly, it was this sort of limitation on the ability to localise a particle that lead to the first proposals that space (and time) may not be continuous since it almost becomes irrelevant:  You can't localise a particle to one point in space unless it's momentum* → ∞, there is some uncertainty in it's position and therefore there isn't any great difference if you just split space up into discrete intervals rather than assuming it is continuous.  However, I prefer to remain open to both possibilities.  Space might be continuous or it might be discrete.
    From a purely mathematical point of view.  We often take derivatives or integrals with respect to some co-ordinate.  This Calculus does assume the co-ordinate will be a continuous variable.

Best Wishes.

LATE EDITING:   * See comment below by Hamdani Yusuf.  "uncertainty in momentum".
« Last Edit: 17/10/2021 08:49:05 by Eternal Student »
Logged
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 4623
  • Activity:
    77.5%
  • Thanked: 181 times
    • View Profile
Re: How Many Numbers Exist?
« Reply #86 on: 17/10/2021 07:49:37 »
Quote from: Eternal Student on 16/10/2021 23:29:00
You can't localise a particle to one point in space unless it's momentum → ∞
It's not the momentum itself that becomes infinite. It's the uncertainty of momentum.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 
The following users thanked this post: Eternal Student



  • Print
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags: infinity  / continuum hypothesis  / cantors set  / arxiv  / vixra 
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.095 seconds with 46 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.