[Just thinking (OP)]

Ethanol fuel is the way to go. If you have ever had the problem of water in your fuel then ethanol fuel is the cure as alcohol can mix with petrol and water. They say ethanol fuel is green well yes it does burn that little bit cleaner but is that why it is produced no. When the oil is collected from the deep drillings ocean and groundwater are introduced to the mix this water is a problem for the refinery that prepares the oil and converts it to the fuel that we use. The fuel that is supplemented with ethanol is the refined dregs that contain most of the water that is still in the fuel by adding ethanol the water can mix with the petrol and water so it can be evenly injected into our motors if we have water in the fuel without ethanol the water will collect at the bottom of the tank and be delivered to the engine in concentrated amounts leading to engine stall. If your car is up to the task of handling this fuel then use it no more water problems. Do you believe this is why ethanol fuel was created?

[Bored chemist]

Ethanol fuel is the way to go. If you have ever had the problem of water in your fuel then ethanol fuel is the cure as alcohol can mix with petrol and water. They say ethanol fuel is green well yes it does burn that little bit cleaner but is that why it is produced no. When the oil is collected from the deep drillings ocean and groundwater are introduced to the mix this water is a problem for the refinery that prepares the oil and converts it to the fuel that we use. The fuel that is supplemented with ethanol is the refined dregs that contain most of the water that is still in the fuel by adding ethanol the water can mix with the petrol and water so it can be evenly injected into our motors if we have water in the fuel without ethanol the water will collect at the bottom of the tank and be delivered to the engine in concentrated amounts leading to engine stall. If your car is up to the task of handling this fuel then use it no more water problems. Do you believe this is why ethanol fuel was created?

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Just thinking (OP)]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Why?

[evan_au]

Ethanol is slightly less energy dense than traditional gasoline (so you have to fill up more often).
- Ethanol still produces carbon dioxide, but since it is usually produced from growing plants, it contributes less carbon dioxide than burning fossil carbon.
- Most countries sell a mix of ethanol and gasoline as an option (not a mix of ethanol and water).
- Brazil has taken ethanol further than most countries, as ethanol can be produced from locally-grown sugar cane. Motor vehicles can sense the ethanol content in the fuel, and adjust the engine parameters to get the most from the fuel.
- Of course, large-scale cultivation of a sugarcane monoculture displaces a richer biodiversity, so it has some downsides, too.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel

Correction: Inserted less, as advised below - thanks!

[Bored chemist]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Why?

Presumably because nobody told you, and you didn't go and find out; you just made up stuff.

The dominant call for including ethanol in fuel is to reduce the carbon footprint. It also acts as an anti-knock additive which is helpful since we abandoned tetraethyl  lead in (most) petrol.
The presence of oxygen in the molecule  does lead to cleaner burning, but that's a secondary consideration.

The petroleum industry has a number of very effective ways to remove water from fuel- the simplest is to wait for it to settle.
But it's important to realise that  the first step in crude oil refining is a distillation, and that will remove all the water.
From there on, the process happens in closed containers, columns  and pipes etc. There's no way for water to get in.
So they can't be using water as a solution to the presence of water, can they?
Also, it's just not very effective at helping water and hydrocarbons to mix.

[Just thinking (OP)]

(not a mix of ethanol and water)

The water is not an option it is in the fuel as a result of faster production and sale of the fuel the ethanol is to make the fuel work without the problems that the water would otherwise produce.

[Just thinking (OP)]

So they can't be using water as a solution to the presence of water, can they?

I never said they add water only that they add ethanol to allow the water to be ingested into the engines to prevent problems. This is so the refineries can move the fuel on faster without waiting for all the water to settle.

[Bored chemist]

I never said they add water only that they add ethanol to allow the water to be ingested into the engines to prevent problems.

OK let's see what you actually said.

The fuel that is supplemented with ethanol is the refined dregs that contain most of the water

Now, given that there's never any water in petrol or diesel while it is part of the manufacturing process, how could your assertion make sense?

[Bored chemist]

The water is not an option it is in the fuel as a result of faster production

Again; how is that possible?
The very first step in oil refining strips out all the water.

[Just thinking (OP)]

Quote from: Just thinking on Today at 19:33:32

    The fuel that is supplemented with ethanol is the refined dregs that contain most of the water


Now, given that there's never any water in petrol or diesel while it is part of the manufacturing process, how could your assertion make sense?

As I quoted the ethanol is added to the dregs at the bottom of the barrel that is where most of the water remaining is. The bottom of the tank has most of the remaining water and it is faster to move this fuel on mixed with ethanol than to wait for the water to settle.

[Bored chemist]

Quote from: Just thinking on Today at 19:33:32

    The fuel that is supplemented with ethanol is the refined dregs that contain most of the water


Now, given that there's never any water in petrol or diesel while it is part of the manufacturing process, how could your assertion make sense?

As I quoted the ethanol is added to the dregs at the bottom of the barrel that is where most of the water remaining is. The bottom of the tank has most of the remaining water and it is faster to move this fuel on mixed with ethanol than to wait for the water to settle.

Again; how is that possible?
The very first step in oil refining strips out all the water.

[Just thinking (OP)]

Again; how is that possible?
The very first step in oil refining strips out all the water.

This is the problem of water in the fuel it takes time for water to settle and the fuel is moving so the water is constantly being mixed and not picked up. They do remove water from the fuel but not all to remove all water the fuel will need to remain still for days this will slow down production hence the ading of ethonol.

[Bored chemist]

This is the problem of water in the fuel it takes time for water to settle

Who cares how long it takes to settle?

They remove it by distillation.
From that point onwards, there' no way for water to get in until it leaves the refinery and gets trucked out to gas stations.


They add ethanol before it leaves the refinery.
At that point it is dry.

Any water that gets in happens later on.

[Eternal Student]

Hi.
@evan_au
There is less missing.  With less missing it implies there is more (which there isn't).  There is less, which is why we need more.  I think you just need to add less.

Ethanol is slightly LESS energy dense than traditional gasoline (so you have to fill up more often).

Best Wishes.

[Just thinking (OP)]

Who cares how long it takes to settle?

They remove it by distillation.
From that point onwards, there' no way for water to get in until it leaves the refinery and gets trucked out to gas stations.


They add ethanol before it leaves the refinery.
At that point it is dry.

Any water that gets in happens later on.

No that is not true water is in the crude oil it enters when the oil is extracted from the earth the refineries are responsible for the removal of this water as well as converting it into petrol but it is not posable to remove all of the water as the refineries are moving the product faster to make a greater profit. Ethanol is added to make the process faster.

[Bored chemist]

Who cares how long it takes to settle?

They remove it by distillation.
From that point onwards, there' no way for water to get in until it leaves the refinery and gets trucked out to gas stations.


They add ethanol before it leaves the refinery.
At that point it is dry.

Any water that gets in happens later on.

No that is not true water is in the crude oil it enters when the oil is extracted from the earth the refineries are responsible for the removal of this water as well as converting it into petrol but it is not posable to remove all of the water as the refineries are moving the product faster to make a greater profit. Ethanol is added to make the process faster.

THEY REMOVE ALL THE WATER BY DISTILLATION.

[Just thinking (OP)]

Any water that gets in happens later on.

So if water gets in later on will the ethanol help this problem, Yes and it helps with the problem of having water in the fuel from the start.

[Bored chemist]

Any water that gets in happens later on.

So if water gets in later on will the ethanol help this problem, Yes and it helps with the problem of having water in the fuel from the start.

Are you saying they use time travel?

The fuel that is supplemented with ethanol is the refined dregs that contain most of the water

How do they know, before the fuel leaves the refinery, which bits of it will become contaminated with water so that they can add ethanol to it?

[Just thinking (OP)]

Are you saying they use time travel?

Quote from: Just thinking on Today at 19:33:32

    The fuel that is supplemented with ethanol is the refined dregs that contain most of the water

How do they know, before the fuel leaves the refinery, which bits of it will become contaminated with water so that they can add ethanol to it?

I have no idea what time travel has to do with it but the water settles to the bottom of the multi million litter tasks at the refinery and that is the dregs that I speak off. Ethanol is added to speed up the emptying of the tanks for sale. This is better than waiting for the concentrated water to setal.

[Bored chemist]

I have no idea what time travel has to do with it

Because you are saying that they work out in advance what fuel streams will be contaminated so that they can add ethanol.

Basically, if the water settles out at the bottom of a tank, it can be dealt with.
If it remains suspended (with or without the help of ethanol) it isn't a problem.

Incidentally, if, for some reason, you wish to remove the ethanol from petrol, it's easy.
You just add water.
The alcohol dissolves in it and settles out.

One big problem with using ethanol as a fuel additive is that the distillation of alcohol only gives you 96% or so pure alcohol- the rest is water.
That's enough water that, if you add it to the fuel, it settles out- it doesn't mix properly.

So they have to take extra care to dry the alcohol- if there's significant water there, it won't mix.

That's not going to be much use as a way to get fuel and water to mix, is it?